koth_avalanche

#1

FatherBrandon

0 Frags – +

New experimental release: koth_avalanche_pro5 released (April 7th)

Download: https://www.dropbox.com/s/sja41yucz7tp4f0/koth_avalanche_pro5.bsp.bz2?dl=0

Changelog:

Show Content

- Removed the major sniper sight-line areas. You can no longer get onto the slanted roofs outside of spawn.
- Created new routes to the main capture point area from the lobby area with the fountain outside of spawn.
- Replaced the fountain models with smaller fountains.
- Expanded the size of the spawn room and added a 3rd exit that leads out onto the bottom floor.
- Removed the back, side spawn area that used to have the shop window.
- Improved clipping.
- Added stairs and sniper fences onto the wooden structures next to the point as well as expanded their size.
- Changed a number of thinner props to non-solid to avoid interference with movement.
- Removed alleyway/flank wooden beams that impeded movement. Removed awnings in the same alley that you could stand on that also impeded movement.
- Smoothed out the vast majority of displacements (included cliff walls alongside the capture point area)
- Added an exit to the flank from the room just outside of spawn.
- Improved bulletblock brushes and added many new ones.
- The majority of lips on roofs are now non-solid to allow for easier explosive jumping.
- Removed the only full ammo kit.
- Moved the door nook in the bottom flank area forward and clipped it off to prevent accidentally getting stuck.
- Reworked displacements for the capture point area.
- Clipped off the tops of the tall thin houses on either side of the point and added a few props to help show this (chimney and corrugated metal thin wall near the top connecting to the cliffside). The area felt too open previously and created uninteresting perches for demos/soldiers to bomb down from.
- Removed trees from play area.
- Added a rock prop to help divide the main area in between the two tanks.
- Lowered the height of the house wall with the window at the capture point as it was too tall a perch.
- Removed wooden support beams that you could stand on directly above the capture point area.

I figured this should probably have it's own thread for feedback as it's going to be developed independently of the original koth_avalanche.

New experimental release: koth_avalanche_pro5 released (April 7th)

Album: http://imgur.com/a/o8SOL

Download: https://www.dropbox.com/s/sja41yucz7tp4f0/koth_avalanche_pro5.bsp.bz2?dl=0

Changelog:

[spoiler]- Removed the major sniper sight-line areas. You can no longer get onto the slanted roofs outside of spawn.
- Created new routes to the main capture point area from the lobby area with the fountain outside of spawn.
- Replaced the fountain models with smaller fountains.
- Expanded the size of the spawn room and added a 3rd exit that leads out onto the bottom floor.
- Removed the back, side spawn area that used to have the shop window.
- Improved clipping.
- Added stairs and sniper fences onto the wooden structures next to the point as well as expanded their size.
- Changed a number of thinner props to non-solid to avoid interference with movement.
- Removed alleyway/flank wooden beams that impeded movement. Removed awnings in the same alley that you could stand on that also impeded movement.
- Smoothed out the vast majority of displacements (included cliff walls alongside the capture point area)
- Added an exit to the flank from the room just outside of spawn.
- Improved bulletblock brushes and added many new ones.
- The majority of lips on roofs are now non-solid to allow for easier explosive jumping.
- Removed the only full ammo kit.
- Moved the door nook in the bottom flank area forward and clipped it off to prevent accidentally getting stuck.
- Reworked displacements for the capture point area.
- Clipped off the tops of the tall thin houses on either side of the point and added a few props to help show this (chimney and corrugated metal thin wall near the top connecting to the cliffside). The area felt too open previously and created uninteresting perches for demos/soldiers to bomb down from.
- Removed trees from play area.
- Added a rock prop to help divide the main area in between the two tanks.
- Lowered the height of the house wall with the window at the capture point as it was too tall a perch.
- Removed wooden support beams that you could stand on directly above the capture point area.[/spoiler]

I figured this should probably have it's own thread for feedback as it's going to be developed independently of the original koth_avalanche.

#2

sage

2 Frags – +

can someone upload to serveme.tf ? i get an error halfway through uploading

edit: i think the file is just too large to upload or something.

can someone upload to serveme.tf ? i get an error halfway through uploading

edit: i think the file is just too large to upload or something.

#3

FatherBrandon

0 Frags – +

New version coming out in about 10 hours. Making the map file smaller and removing all of the unused map completely (You could see into some of the underground area from the closed off sections in version pro1) so performance should be improved. Also added some additional clipping + a few custom ambient sounds.

#4

J3NGA

-5 Frags – +

FatherBrandon removing some all of the unused map completely

"some all"

[quote=FatherBrandon] removing some all of the unused map completely [/quote]
[b][i]"some all"[/i][/b]

#5

Twiggy

0 Frags – +

How is game performance looking so far? I thought snow textures made the game slow down

#6

SpaceCadet

5 Frags – +

Waiting for the big post from Benroads pointing out all the things that need fixing. I really like those posts.

#7

Hyce

6 Frags – +

SpaceCadetWaiting for the big post from Benroads pointing out all the things that need fixing. I really like those posts.

Me too, always love his posts

Except for when they're about the fact that some door that exists for no gameplay purpose has no door handles. I still have you tagged on steam as "motherfucking doorhandles bitch," Ben.

[quote=SpaceCadet]Waiting for the big post from Benroads pointing out all the things that need fixing. I really like those posts.[/quote]

Me too, always love his posts

Except for when they're about the fact that some door that exists for no gameplay purpose has no door handles. I still have you tagged on steam as "motherfucking doorhandles bitch," Ben.

#8

SpaceCadet

1 Frags – +

Maybe Ben is a perfectionist. Every detail counts

#9

FatherBrandon

4 Frags – +

J3NGAFatherBrandon removing some all of the unused map completely "some all"

It was late, my apologies.

koth_avalanche_pro2 is now available:

Dropbox link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/x8sg0n7ink00v70/koth_avalanche_pro2.bsp.bz2?dl=0

Unfortunately I could not reduce the file size with this version.

-removed unused areas of the map completely (underground, tunnels)
-improved clipping

[quote=J3NGA][quote=FatherBrandon] removing some all of the unused map completely [/quote]
[b][i]"some all"[/i][/b][/quote]

It was late, my apologies.

koth_avalanche_pro2 is now available:

Dropbox link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/x8sg0n7ink00v70/koth_avalanche_pro2.bsp.bz2?dl=0

Unfortunately I could not reduce the file size with this version.

-removed unused areas of the map completely (underground, tunnels)
-improved clipping

#10

Trotz21

2 Frags – +

Nice looking map, although I am worried about the snow?

#11

sage

4 Frags – +

took a quick look at pro2 and noticed some stuff
http://imgur.com/a/0wP9o

#12

FatherBrandon

2 Frags – +

sagetook a quick look at pro2 and noticed some stuff
http://imgur.com/a/0wP9o

Awesome feedback. In the next version I will make sure people can not fall to their deaths.

I'll move the clock to the middle. It's kind of broken I guess, chimes 1 PM every 3 minutes despite not showing that time. : P

Trotz21Nice looking map, although I am worried about the snow?

If it comes to it, I can remove the snow texture in favor of grass. I suppose it could be a mudslide instead of avalanche?

[quote=sage]took a quick look at pro2 and noticed some stuff
http://imgur.com/a/0wP9o[/quote]

Awesome feedback. In the next version I will make sure people can not fall to their deaths.

I'll move the clock to the middle. It's kind of broken I guess, chimes 1 PM every 3 minutes despite not showing that time. : P

[quote=Trotz21]Nice looking map, although I am worried about the snow?[/quote]

If it comes to it, I can remove the snow texture in favor of grass. I suppose it could be a mudslide instead of avalanche?

#13

FatherBrandon

1 Frags – +

Pro3 in about 10 hours.

I believe I have resolved most of what is pointed out in sage's previous post. You can no longer fall off the map and more clipping has been added as well.

Pro3 in about 10 hours.

I believe I have resolved most of what is pointed out in sage's previous post. You can no longer fall off the map and more clipping has been added as well.

#14

maxc232

5 Frags – +

snow textures dont matter, just disable weather effects

#15

FatherBrandon

2 Frags – +

The compile is messing up for the latest version. Hopefully not long now until it's ready.

#16

FatherBrandon

2 Frags – +

Skipped a version and now koth_avalanche_pro4 is available: https://www.dropbox.com/s/y3ia9383m5jwcgd/koth_avalanche_pro4.bsp.bz2?dl=0

Album of changes:

http://imgur.com/a/yQUxq

-reworked the flank areas
-no more environmental deaths
-added more clipping
-centered clock on the wall in the point area
-removed steam coming from sewer grate overlays

Skipped a version and now koth_avalanche_pro4 is available: https://www.dropbox.com/s/y3ia9383m5jwcgd/koth_avalanche_pro4.bsp.bz2?dl=0

Album of changes:

http://imgur.com/a/yQUxq

-reworked the flank areas
-no more environmental deaths
-added more clipping
-centered clock on the wall in the point area
-removed steam coming from sewer grate overlays

#17

_brian

4 Frags – +

Just played pro4 in a mapchamp. The sightlines combined with how big the map is makes it super hard to play. 1 sniper on the roof between spawn and point can see the entire map.

#18

FatherBrandon

0 Frags – +

_brianJust played pro4 in a mapchamp. The sightlines combined with how big the map is makes it super hard to play. 1 sniper on the roof between spawn and point can see the entire map.

Thanks! Getting similar feedback from Truetf2.

Any suggestions on what you'd like to see? Higher ground for the point?

I have been thinking about removing access (or removing it entirely) to the sloped roof outside of each spawn and forcing people to go under or around the flank/cafe area.

[quote=_brian]Just played pro4 in a mapchamp. The sightlines combined with how big the map is makes it super hard to play. 1 sniper on the roof between spawn and point can see the entire map.[/quote]

Thanks! Getting similar feedback from Truetf2.

Any suggestions on what you'd like to see? Higher ground for the point?

I have been thinking about removing access (or removing it entirely) to the sloped roof outside of each spawn and forcing people to go under or around the flank/cafe area.

#19

Benroads

10 Frags – +

https://puu.sh/v7o7j/e6cbc9d4e0.jpg

First thing I noticed is how incredibly cramped the spawn room feels, I can't really imagine having 5+ other players in there as well.

https://puu.sh/v7ojv/e73e98951f.jpg

Personally I love the idea of stupid hiding spots but this is a bit much even for me, this already already seems kinda strange since there's next to no benefit of taking this door out of spawn.

https://puu.sh/v7orX/22150edb1f.jpg

Should clip over the inset on the window and remove collision on the door frame since neither really provide anything besides a place to get stuck on when you get bounced. I would also suggest clipping over the entire ceiling to prevent players from getting caught on the support beams.

https://puu.sh/v7oAy/9c7cfb6202.jpg

Would suggest making the props on the wall nonsolid unless you intend to have them as a hiding spot. Right now if you were on those boxes for any reason it'd be very easy to get caught on them.

https://puu.sh/v7oCr/36de18332b.jpg

Unless you plan to have players using the railing to dodge on I would just clip them off to prevent people getting stuck on them since the prop collision is kinda bad.

https://puu.sh/v7oIs/90371de8c0.jpg

This area feels really cramped as well and I don't really understand the point of the horizontal bars since they really only seem to get in the way of jumping. Also the roof clipping is frustrating as you'll often get caught on it while jumping. Would also suggest making the displacement ground at the top of the stairs a bit smoother and potentially making it non solid.

http://puu.sh/v7oSe/4d8b4d7edc.jpg

I don't think that any of the props in here benefit from being solid unless you want them as (shitty) hiding spots. I would also probably slightly rework the geometry on the right as the area where the manhole cover is doesn't seem to be being used for anything.

https://puu.sh/v7p0c/9d1fce16e6.jpg

Should clip/bulletblock this little lip to prevent splash bugs and probably make the pipes in the corner nonsolid.

https://puu.sh/v7p72/3765bfbf4c.jpg

If you're going to have one of these be solid you should probably make sure both of them or none of them are solid as having inconsistency with prop solidity is pretty annoying.

https://puu.sh/v7pdd/38706f41e0.jpg

I think you should smooth out the upper part of these displacements so they're more consistent for jumping. Right now when I try to rocket off them it seems pretty bad (Combination of awkward geometry with the displacement itself and the clipping)

https://puu.sh/v7pqa/911f883fc6.jpg

Examples of the clipping as mentioned above

https://puu.sh/v7ptO/d467cbd389.jpg

As mentioned before I would highly recommend changing how you clip off roofs since having hard edges at the top like this makes jumping feel awful.

https://puu.sh/v7pFh/b0f0814a00.jpg

This sightline is pretty absurd as you can basically look at all 4 ways that you get to mid from one location. Getting rid of this will be pretty difficult and right now I don't really have any suggestions for fixing it.

https://puu.sh/v7pKN/f5ba621a18.jpg

Personally I don't think that large health or ammo kits should ever be used in a serious map considering how important health and ammo management is in TF2. Besides that you already have 3 medium ammo packs on each side of mid that are incredibly easy to get to. I think removing this and moving the health pack here could be a good option. Also some kind of seam thing on the displacement right next to the blue timer on my hud.

https://puu.sh/v7pZ6/d5d3a8b7bf.jpg

This little nook looks really nice but since I don't imagine it will ever be used for gameplay I would suggest moving it forward slightly and then clipping it off so players don't get stuck on it.

https://puu.sh/v7qd4/b96e613e37.jpg

Same deal as before with clipping/bulletblocking the inset area to prevent splash bugs

Right now I see middle as the biggest problem since you don't really have any defined flank routes and the entire area is just super open. There's also a lot of perch spots for soldiers and potentially demos to go stand on and those typically aren't very interesting fights. There's also the big issue of that mega sightline that would also double as a pretty strong area to forward hold as you'll be covering 2/3 spawn doors with height advantage and you could easily have a roamer watch the far side since you'd be forced into a small tunnel anyway. Currently I don't really have suggestions for any of those problems but I think that they're worth bringing up sooner versus later, however I could be totally wrong and it could play out fine.

[img]https://puu.sh/v7o7j/e6cbc9d4e0.jpg[/img]

First thing I noticed is how incredibly cramped the spawn room feels, I can't really imagine having 5+ other players in there as well.

[img]https://puu.sh/v7ojv/e73e98951f.jpg[/img]

Personally I love the idea of stupid hiding spots but this is a bit much even for me, this already already seems kinda strange since there's next to no benefit of taking this door out of spawn.

[img]https://puu.sh/v7orX/22150edb1f.jpg[/img]

Should clip over the inset on the window and remove collision on the door frame since neither really provide anything besides a place to get stuck on when you get bounced. I would also suggest clipping over the entire ceiling to prevent players from getting caught on the support beams.

[img]https://puu.sh/v7oAy/9c7cfb6202.jpg[/img]

Would suggest making the props on the wall nonsolid unless you intend to have them as a hiding spot. Right now if you were on those boxes for any reason it'd be very easy to get caught on them.

[img]https://puu.sh/v7oCr/36de18332b.jpg[/img]

Unless you plan to have players using the railing to dodge on I would just clip them off to prevent people getting stuck on them since the prop collision is kinda bad.

[img]https://puu.sh/v7oIs/90371de8c0.jpg[/img]

This area feels really cramped as well and I don't really understand the point of the horizontal bars since they really only seem to get in the way of jumping. Also the roof clipping is frustrating as you'll often get caught on it while jumping. Would also suggest making the displacement ground at the top of the stairs a bit smoother and potentially making it non solid.

[img]http://puu.sh/v7oSe/4d8b4d7edc.jpg[/img]

I don't think that any of the props in here benefit from being solid unless you want them as (shitty) hiding spots. I would also probably slightly rework the geometry on the right as the area where the manhole cover is doesn't seem to be being used for anything.

[img]https://puu.sh/v7p0c/9d1fce16e6.jpg[/img]

Should clip/bulletblock this little lip to prevent splash bugs and probably make the pipes in the corner nonsolid.

[img]https://puu.sh/v7p72/3765bfbf4c.jpg[/img]

If you're going to have one of these be solid you should probably make sure both of them or none of them are solid as having inconsistency with prop solidity is pretty annoying.

[img]https://puu.sh/v7pdd/38706f41e0.jpg[/img]

I think you should smooth out the upper part of these displacements so they're more consistent for jumping. Right now when I try to rocket off them it seems pretty bad (Combination of awkward geometry with the displacement itself and the clipping)

[img]https://puu.sh/v7pqa/911f883fc6.jpg[/img]

Examples of the clipping as mentioned above

[img]https://puu.sh/v7ptO/d467cbd389.jpg[/img]

As mentioned before I would highly recommend changing how you clip off roofs since having hard edges at the top like this makes jumping feel awful.

[img]https://puu.sh/v7pFh/b0f0814a00.jpg[/img]

This sightline is pretty absurd as you can basically look at all 4 ways that you get to mid from one location. Getting rid of this will be pretty difficult and right now I don't really have any suggestions for fixing it.

[img]https://puu.sh/v7pKN/f5ba621a18.jpg[/img]

Personally I don't think that large health or ammo kits should ever be used in a serious map considering how important health and ammo management is in TF2. Besides that you already have 3 medium ammo packs on each side of mid that are incredibly easy to get to. I think removing this and moving the health pack here could be a good option. Also some kind of seam thing on the displacement right next to the blue timer on my hud.

[img]https://puu.sh/v7pZ6/d5d3a8b7bf.jpg[/img]

This little nook looks really nice but since I don't imagine it will ever be used for gameplay I would suggest moving it forward slightly and then clipping it off so players don't get stuck on it.

[img]https://puu.sh/v7qd4/b96e613e37.jpg[/img]

Same deal as before with clipping/bulletblocking the inset area to prevent splash bugs

Right now I see middle as the biggest problem since you don't really have any defined flank routes and the entire area is just super open. There's also a lot of perch spots for soldiers and potentially demos to go stand on and those typically aren't very interesting fights. There's also the big issue of that mega sightline that would also double as a pretty strong area to forward hold as you'll be covering 2/3 spawn doors with height advantage and you could easily have a roamer watch the far side since you'd be forced into a small tunnel anyway. Currently I don't really have suggestions for any of those problems but I think that they're worth bringing up sooner versus later, however I could be totally wrong and it could play out fine.

#20

FatherBrandon

5 Frags – +

Show Content

Benroadshttps://puu.sh/v7o7j/e6cbc9d4e0.jpg

First thing I noticed is how incredibly cramped the spawn room feels, I can't really imagine having 5+ other players in there as well.

https://puu.sh/v7ojv/e73e98951f.jpg

Personally I love the idea of stupid hiding spots but this is a bit much even for me, this already already seems kinda strange since there's next to no benefit of taking this door out of spawn.

https://puu.sh/v7orX/22150edb1f.jpg

Should clip over the inset on the window and remove collision on the door frame since neither really provide anything besides a place to get stuck on when you get bounced. I would also suggest clipping over the entire ceiling to prevent players from getting caught on the support beams.

https://puu.sh/v7oAy/9c7cfb6202.jpg

Would suggest making the props on the wall nonsolid unless you intend to have them as a hiding spot. Right now if you were on those boxes for any reason it'd be very easy to get caught on them.

https://puu.sh/v7oCr/36de18332b.jpg

Unless you plan to have players using the railing to dodge on I would just clip them off to prevent people getting stuck on them since the prop collision is kinda bad.

https://puu.sh/v7oIs/90371de8c0.jpg

This area feels really cramped as well and I don't really understand the point of the horizontal bars since they really only seem to get in the way of jumping. Also the roof clipping is frustrating as you'll often get caught on it while jumping. Would also suggest making the displacement ground at the top of the stairs a bit smoother and potentially making it non solid.

http://puu.sh/v7oSe/4d8b4d7edc.jpg

I don't think that any of the props in here benefit from being solid unless you want them as (shitty) hiding spots. I would also probably slightly rework the geometry on the right as the area where the manhole cover is doesn't seem to be being used for anything.

https://puu.sh/v7p0c/9d1fce16e6.jpg

Should clip/bulletblock this little lip to prevent splash bugs and probably make the pipes in the corner nonsolid.

https://puu.sh/v7p72/3765bfbf4c.jpg

If you're going to have one of these be solid you should probably make sure both of them or none of them are solid as having inconsistency with prop solidity is pretty annoying.

https://puu.sh/v7pdd/38706f41e0.jpg

I think you should smooth out the upper part of these displacements so they're more consistent for jumping. Right now when I try to rocket off them it seems pretty bad (Combination of awkward geometry with the displacement itself and the clipping)

https://puu.sh/v7pqa/911f883fc6.jpg

Examples of the clipping as mentioned above

https://puu.sh/v7ptO/d467cbd389.jpg

As mentioned before I would highly recommend changing how you clip off roofs since having hard edges at the top like this makes jumping feel awful.

https://puu.sh/v7pFh/b0f0814a00.jpg

This sightline is pretty absurd as you can basically look at all 4 ways that you get to mid from one location. Getting rid of this will be pretty difficult and right now I don't really have any suggestions for fixing it.

https://puu.sh/v7pKN/f5ba621a18.jpg

Personally I don't think that large health or ammo kits should ever be used in a serious map considering how important health and ammo management is in TF2. Besides that you already have 3 medium ammo packs on each side of mid that are incredibly easy to get to. I think removing this and moving the health pack here could be a good option. Also some kind of seam thing on the displacement right next to the blue timer on my hud.

https://puu.sh/v7pZ6/d5d3a8b7bf.jpg

This little nook looks really nice but since I don't imagine it will ever be used for gameplay I would suggest moving it forward slightly and then clipping it off so players don't get stuck on it.

https://puu.sh/v7qd4/b96e613e37.jpg

Same deal as before with clipping/bulletblocking the inset area to prevent splash bugs

Right now I see middle as the biggest problem since you don't really have any defined flank routes and the entire area is just super open. There's also a lot of perch spots for soldiers and potentially demos to go stand on and those typically aren't very interesting fights. There's also the big issue of that mega sightline that would also double as a pretty strong area to forward hold as you'll be covering 2/3 spawn doors with height advantage and you could easily have a roamer watch the far side since you'd be forced into a small tunnel anyway. Currently I don't really have suggestions for any of those problems but I think that they're worth bringing up sooner versus later, however I could be totally wrong and it could play out fine.

I appreciate the in-depth feedback! I'll take a look at what I can do to fix the issues pointed out.

[spoiler][quote=Benroads][img]https://puu.sh/v7o7j/e6cbc9d4e0.jpg[/img]

First thing I noticed is how incredibly cramped the spawn room feels, I can't really imagine having 5+ other players in there as well.

[img]https://puu.sh/v7ojv/e73e98951f.jpg[/img]

Personally I love the idea of stupid hiding spots but this is a bit much even for me, this already already seems kinda strange since there's next to no benefit of taking this door out of spawn.

[img]https://puu.sh/v7orX/22150edb1f.jpg[/img]

Should clip over the inset on the window and remove collision on the door frame since neither really provide anything besides a place to get stuck on when you get bounced. I would also suggest clipping over the entire ceiling to prevent players from getting caught on the support beams.

[img]https://puu.sh/v7oAy/9c7cfb6202.jpg[/img]

Would suggest making the props on the wall nonsolid unless you intend to have them as a hiding spot. Right now if you were on those boxes for any reason it'd be very easy to get caught on them.

[img]https://puu.sh/v7oCr/36de18332b.jpg[/img]

Unless you plan to have players using the railing to dodge on I would just clip them off to prevent people getting stuck on them since the prop collision is kinda bad.

[img]https://puu.sh/v7oIs/90371de8c0.jpg[/img]

This area feels really cramped as well and I don't really understand the point of the horizontal bars since they really only seem to get in the way of jumping. Also the roof clipping is frustrating as you'll often get caught on it while jumping. Would also suggest making the displacement ground at the top of the stairs a bit smoother and potentially making it non solid.

[img]http://puu.sh/v7oSe/4d8b4d7edc.jpg[/img]

I don't think that any of the props in here benefit from being solid unless you want them as (shitty) hiding spots. I would also probably slightly rework the geometry on the right as the area where the manhole cover is doesn't seem to be being used for anything.

[img]https://puu.sh/v7p0c/9d1fce16e6.jpg[/img]

Should clip/bulletblock this little lip to prevent splash bugs and probably make the pipes in the corner nonsolid.

[img]https://puu.sh/v7p72/3765bfbf4c.jpg[/img]

If you're going to have one of these be solid you should probably make sure both of them or none of them are solid as having inconsistency with prop solidity is pretty annoying.

[img]https://puu.sh/v7pdd/38706f41e0.jpg[/img]

I think you should smooth out the upper part of these displacements so they're more consistent for jumping. Right now when I try to rocket off them it seems pretty bad (Combination of awkward geometry with the displacement itself and the clipping)

[img]https://puu.sh/v7pqa/911f883fc6.jpg[/img]

Examples of the clipping as mentioned above

[img]https://puu.sh/v7ptO/d467cbd389.jpg[/img]

As mentioned before I would highly recommend changing how you clip off roofs since having hard edges at the top like this makes jumping feel awful.

[img]https://puu.sh/v7pFh/b0f0814a00.jpg[/img]

This sightline is pretty absurd as you can basically look at all 4 ways that you get to mid from one location. Getting rid of this will be pretty difficult and right now I don't really have any suggestions for fixing it.

[img]https://puu.sh/v7pKN/f5ba621a18.jpg[/img]

Personally I don't think that large health or ammo kits should ever be used in a serious map considering how important health and ammo management is in TF2. Besides that you already have 3 medium ammo packs on each side of mid that are incredibly easy to get to. I think removing this and moving the health pack here could be a good option. Also some kind of seam thing on the displacement right next to the blue timer on my hud.

[img]https://puu.sh/v7pZ6/d5d3a8b7bf.jpg[/img]

This little nook looks really nice but since I don't imagine it will ever be used for gameplay I would suggest moving it forward slightly and then clipping it off so players don't get stuck on it.

[img]https://puu.sh/v7qd4/b96e613e37.jpg[/img]

Same deal as before with clipping/bulletblocking the inset area to prevent splash bugs

Right now I see middle as the biggest problem since you don't really have any defined flank routes and the entire area is just super open. There's also a lot of perch spots for soldiers and potentially demos to go stand on and those typically aren't very interesting fights. There's also the big issue of that mega sightline that would also double as a pretty strong area to forward hold as you'll be covering 2/3 spawn doors with height advantage and you could easily have a roamer watch the far side since you'd be forced into a small tunnel anyway. Currently I don't really have suggestions for any of those problems but I think that they're worth bringing up sooner versus later, however I could be totally wrong and it could play out fine.[/quote] [/spoiler]

I appreciate the in-depth feedback! I'll take a look at what I can do to fix the issues pointed out.

#21

FatherBrandon

2 Frags – +

Rough idea of how to fix some of the soldier/demo perches and remove the huge sniper sightline/reduce it to the cafe for highground only:

http://i.imgur.com/wLmNena.jpg

I am going to make the slanted roof inaccessible. Using a pretty huge stock TF2 prop to help define that you can not get over the roofs.

Lowering the thin houses on either side of the point so scouts can access with ease and made the thin houses a tiny bit fatter.

Rough idea of how to fix some of the soldier/demo perches and remove the huge sniper sightline/reduce it to the cafe for highground only:

http://i.imgur.com/wLmNena.jpg

I am going to make the slanted roof inaccessible. Using a pretty huge stock TF2 prop to help define that you can not get over the roofs.

Lowering the thin houses on either side of the point so scouts can access with ease and made the thin houses a tiny bit fatter.

#22

_brian

2 Frags – +

Show Content

FatherBrandonRough idea of how to fix some of the soldier/demo perches and remove the huge sniper sightline/reduce it to the cafe for highground only:

http://i.imgur.com/wLmNena.jpg

I am going to make the slanted roof inaccessible. Using a pretty huge stock TF2 prop to help define that you can not get over the roofs.

Lowering the thin houses on either side of the point so scouts can access with ease and made the thin houses a tiny bit fatter.

I like this idea. I don't think you should be able to get on the slanted roof. The thin houses could still stay, but I could see them being lowered an okay thing too. Without the sight line from that roof sniper should be fine.

[spoiler][quote=FatherBrandon]Rough idea of how to fix some of the soldier/demo perches and remove the huge sniper sightline/reduce it to the cafe for highground only:

http://i.imgur.com/wLmNena.jpg

I am going to make the slanted roof inaccessible. Using a pretty huge stock TF2 prop to help define that you can not get over the roofs.

Lowering the thin houses on either side of the point so scouts can access with ease and made the thin houses a tiny bit fatter.[/quote][/spoiler]

I like this idea. I don't think you should be able to get on the slanted roof. The thin houses could still stay, but I could see them being lowered an okay thing too. Without the sight line from that roof sniper should be fine.

#23

FatherBrandon

0 Frags – +

Removing the side exit from the spawns (removing the back area as well that the side door exited into) and changing the room outside spawn to allow access to the flank like this:

http://imgur.com/a/aaqKy

Let me know what your thoughts are on it.

Removing the side exit from the spawns (removing the back area as well that the side door exited into) and changing the room outside spawn to allow access to the flank like this:

http://imgur.com/a/aaqKy

Let me know what your thoughts are on it.

#24

Tmbr

3 Frags – +

http://imgur.com/a/8dBDu

still getting really bad fps, but the changes have been good and the clipping improved a lot

http://imgur.com/a/8dBDu

still getting really bad fps, but the changes have been good and the clipping improved a lot

#25

FatherBrandon

0 Frags – +

Tmbrhttp://imgur.com/a/8dBDu

still getting really bad fps, but the changes have been good and the clipping improved a lot

Thank you for screencapping everything you found out and the displacement ground issues, I'll try smoothing those out a bit more.

I will definitely keep a close eye on those sightlines. We'll see if the flank sniper sight line is too powerful once the version is out that does not allow access to the slanted roof outside of spawn.

Also unsure how to have snow look great on top of the cobblestone. I do have snow overlays in place that you can not see since you have all overlays turned off but I do not think they look perfect by any means.

[quote=Tmbr]http://imgur.com/a/8dBDu

still getting really bad fps, but the changes have been good and the clipping improved a lot[/quote]

Thank you for screencapping everything you found out and the displacement ground issues, I'll try smoothing those out a bit more.

I will definitely keep a close eye on those sightlines. We'll see if the flank sniper sight line is too powerful once the version is out that does not allow access to the slanted roof outside of spawn.

Also unsure how to have snow look great on top of the cobblestone. I do have snow overlays in place that you can not see since you have all overlays turned off but I do not think they look perfect by any means.

#26

FatherBrandon

1 Frags – +

I'm trying to get everything done before MapChamp this weekend.

Here's a preview of some changes:

http://i.imgur.com/2PEBmzt.jpg

I'm trying to get everything done before MapChamp this weekend.

Here's a preview of some changes:

http://i.imgur.com/2PEBmzt.jpg

#27

FatherBrandon

2 Frags – +

Thank you all so much for the feedback so far (especially Benroads, Sage, and Tmbr).

koth_avalanche_pro5 released (April 7th).

Album: http://imgur.com/a/o8SOL

Download: https://www.dropbox.com/s/sja41yucz7tp4f0/koth_avalanche_pro5.bsp.bz2?dl=0

Changelog for koth_avalanche_pro5:

Show Content

- Removed the major sniper sight-line areas. You can no longer get onto the slanted roofs outside of spawn.
- Created new routes to the main capture point area from the lobby area with the fountain outside of spawn.
- Replaced the fountain models with smaller fountains.
- Expanded the size of the spawn room and added a 3rd exit that leads out onto the bottom floor.
- Removed the back, side spawn area that used to have the shop window.
- Improved clipping.
- Added stairs and sniper fences onto the wooden structures next to the point as well as expanded their size.
- Changed a number of thinner props to non-solid to avoid interference with movement.
- Removed alleyway/flank wooden beams that impeded movement. Removed awnings in the same alley that you could stand on that also impeded movement.
- Smoothed out the vast majority of displacements (included cliff walls alongside the capture point area)
- Added an exit to the flank from the room just outside of spawn.
- Improved bulletblock brushes and added many new ones.
- The majority of lips on roofs are now non-solid to allow for easier explosive jumping.
- Removed the only full ammo kit.
- Moved the door nook in the bottom flank area forward and clipped it off to prevent accidentally getting stuck.
- Reworked displacements for the capture point area.
- Clipped off the tops of the tall thin houses on either side of the point and added a few props to help show this (chimney and corrugated metal thin wall near the top connecting to the cliffside). The area felt too open previously and created uninteresting perches for demos/soldiers to bomb down from.
- Removed trees from play area.
- Added a rock prop to help divide the main area in between the two tanks.
- Lowered the height of the house wall with the window at the capture point as it was too tall a perch.
- Removed wooden support beams that you could stand on directly above the capture point area.

Thank you all so much for the feedback so far (especially Benroads, Sage, and Tmbr).

koth_avalanche_pro5 released (April 7th).

Album: http://imgur.com/a/o8SOL

Download: https://www.dropbox.com/s/sja41yucz7tp4f0/koth_avalanche_pro5.bsp.bz2?dl=0

Changelog for koth_avalanche_pro5:

[spoiler]- Removed the major sniper sight-line areas. You can no longer get onto the slanted roofs outside of spawn.
- Created new routes to the main capture point area from the lobby area with the fountain outside of spawn.
- Replaced the fountain models with smaller fountains.
- Expanded the size of the spawn room and added a 3rd exit that leads out onto the bottom floor.
- Removed the back, side spawn area that used to have the shop window.
- Improved clipping.
- Added stairs and sniper fences onto the wooden structures next to the point as well as expanded their size.
- Changed a number of thinner props to non-solid to avoid interference with movement.
- Removed alleyway/flank wooden beams that impeded movement. Removed awnings in the same alley that you could stand on that also impeded movement.
- Smoothed out the vast majority of displacements (included cliff walls alongside the capture point area)
- Added an exit to the flank from the room just outside of spawn.
- Improved bulletblock brushes and added many new ones.
- The majority of lips on roofs are now non-solid to allow for easier explosive jumping.
- Removed the only full ammo kit.
- Moved the door nook in the bottom flank area forward and clipped it off to prevent accidentally getting stuck.
- Reworked displacements for the capture point area.
- Clipped off the tops of the tall thin houses on either side of the point and added a few props to help show this (chimney and corrugated metal thin wall near the top connecting to the cliffside). The area felt too open previously and created uninteresting perches for demos/soldiers to bomb down from.
- Removed trees from play area.
- Added a rock prop to help divide the main area in between the two tanks.
- Lowered the height of the house wall with the window at the capture point as it was too tall a perch.
- Removed wooden support beams that you could stand on directly above the capture point area.[/spoiler]

#28

Hyce

0 Frags – +

So, I walked around it a bit- without playing it, the only real feedback I have is:

MIRRORED SYMMETRY FOR SHAME (please use rotational symmetry for fuck sake)
The lower spawn exit doesn't get you anything? It pretty much ends up where the left spawn dumps you out.

Beyond that, it seems when you go out the zeppelin side entrance (BECAUSE YOU USED MIRRORED SYMMETRY YOU MONSTER) that the point is aligned more so the other way; perhaps move it a bit the other way.

Regardless, seems like a legit koth map. Hopefully we can see it in mapchamp for testing soon.

edit: My apologies for any rudeness in this post I was absolutely shitfaced when I wrote it.

So, I walked around it a bit- without playing it, the only real feedback I have is:

MIRRORED SYMMETRY FOR SHAME (please use rotational symmetry for fuck sake)
The lower spawn exit doesn't get you anything? It pretty much ends up where the left spawn dumps you out.

Beyond that, it seems when you go out the zeppelin side entrance (BECAUSE YOU USED MIRRORED SYMMETRY YOU MONSTER) that the point is aligned more so the other way; perhaps move it a bit the other way.

Regardless, seems like a legit koth map. Hopefully we can see it in mapchamp for testing soon.

edit: My apologies for any rudeness in this post I was absolutely shitfaced when I wrote it.

#29

FatherBrandon

0 Frags – +

HyceSo, I walked around it a bit- without playing it, the only real feedback I have is:

MIRRORED SYMMETRY FOR SHAME (please use rotational symmetry for fuck sake)
The lower spawn exit doesn't get you anything? It pretty much ends up where the left spawn dumps you out.

Beyond that, it seems when you go out the zeppelin side entrance (BECAUSE YOU USED MIRRORED SYMMETRY YOU MONSTER) that the point is aligned more so the other way; perhaps move it a bit the other way.

Regardless, seems like a legit koth map. Hopefully we can see it in mapchamp for testing soon.

edit: My apologies for any rudeness in this post I was absolutely shitfaced when I wrote it.

Not a problem dude. I just assumed you were passionate about the subject, which is appreciated.

I couldn't find a great place for the lower spawn exit. If it was on the wall facing towards the point there would be an odd line of sight from it to the fountain area. If someone is spawn camping above, maybe it can get you behind them. But I agree, and it may be changed in a future release.

I understand the issue with mirrored symmetry now. Back when I made koth_avalanche last year I did not. Unfortunately I think the map would have to be redone from scratch if I wanted to rotate instead of mirror it.

[quote=Hyce]So, I walked around it a bit- without playing it, the only real feedback I have is:

MIRRORED SYMMETRY FOR SHAME (please use rotational symmetry for fuck sake)
The lower spawn exit doesn't get you anything? It pretty much ends up where the left spawn dumps you out.

Beyond that, it seems when you go out the zeppelin side entrance (BECAUSE YOU USED MIRRORED SYMMETRY YOU MONSTER) that the point is aligned more so the other way; perhaps move it a bit the other way.

Regardless, seems like a legit koth map. Hopefully we can see it in mapchamp for testing soon.

edit: My apologies for any rudeness in this post I was absolutely shitfaced when I wrote it.[/quote]

Not a problem dude. I just assumed you were passionate about the subject, which is appreciated.

I couldn't find a great place for the lower spawn exit. If it was on the wall facing towards the point there would be an odd line of sight from it to the fountain area. If someone is spawn camping above, maybe it can get you behind them. But I agree, and it may be changed in a future release.

I understand the issue with mirrored symmetry now. Back when I made koth_avalanche last year I did not. Unfortunately I think the map would have to be redone from scratch if I wanted to rotate instead of mirror it.

#30

Hyce

1 Frags – +

Yeah I know, it'd be a pain in the ass. For what it's worth I played it today and it didn't seem to be a big deal.

My biggest takeaways from the game I played was that the mid -> spawn isn't that great; I'm not certain why. You can double sticky jump from spawn to spawn, which, while hilarious, is broken.

I did like the point and the geometry around it quite a bit.

Yeah I know, it'd be a pain in the ass. For what it's worth I played it today and it didn't seem to be a big deal.

My biggest takeaways from the game I played was that the mid -> spawn isn't that great; I'm not certain why. You can double sticky jump from spawn to spawn, which, while hilarious, is broken.

I did like the point and the geometry around it quite a bit.