I've heard a lot of rumors about that playing TF2 in Windowed Borderless mode (esp in Windows 8+) results in mouse input lag. I've been playing TF2 in Windowed Borderless for most of my TF2 career, and I haven't really noticed this, but then this just could be because I'm used to it.
Due to how used to it I am, I also don't feel like I could come to a reliable conclusion on my own by switching to Fullscreen for a few games, because even if my aim increased in consistency, my overall aim consistency always seems to be fluctuating.
May also be worth mentioning that I typically run the game at 100+ FPS, well above my monitor's 75hz refresh rate. I've heard that FPS in Source games can also play a role in input latency, but this is another one of those statements I've yet to see backed up with test results.
So I'm asking you guys: are there any definitive tests out there that have been done to confirm or deny these rumors? Have you guys tested this out on your own and noticed any real differences between Windowed Borderless and Fullscreen? Or input latency changes at different framerates?
I've heard a lot of rumors about that playing TF2 in Windowed Borderless mode (esp in Windows 8+) results in mouse input lag. I've been playing TF2 in Windowed Borderless for most of my TF2 career, and I haven't really noticed this, but then this just could be because I'm used to it.
Due to how used to it I am, I also don't feel like I could come to a reliable conclusion on my own by switching to Fullscreen for a few games, because even if my aim increased in consistency, my overall aim consistency always seems to be fluctuating.
May also be worth mentioning that I typically run the game at 100+ FPS, well above my monitor's 75hz refresh rate. I've heard that FPS in Source games can also play a role in input latency, but this is another one of those statements I've yet to see backed up with test results.
[b]So I'm asking you guys: are there any definitive tests out there that have been done to confirm or deny these rumors? Have you guys tested this out on your own and noticed any real differences between Windowed Borderless and Fullscreen? Or input latency changes at different framerates?[/b]
Fullscreen = drawn directly to screen = less resources used and nothing forced on the game
Windowed Borderless = Using desktop window manager = slightly more resources used and forces triple-buffering
Like anything fps related, how much difference in frames will depend on your setup. I don't know the details of triple-buffering in windows, but it will result in input lag at the very least, and possibly decreased fps and stability depending on the specifics.
FPS affecting input lag should be pretty obvious, better fps = less room for input lag. If you ran at 60 fps and had your mouse or keyboard running at 125hz, your maximum input lag would be ~25ms ((1/60 + 1/125) * 1000) and your minimum would be the one with bigger latency (so 1/60*1000, or ~17ms), with no other factors involved. At 240 fps with 125hz, that max goes down to ~12ms with a minimum of 8ms (from the 125hz).
Fullscreen = drawn directly to screen = less resources used and nothing forced on the game
Windowed Borderless = Using desktop window manager = slightly more resources used and forces triple-buffering
Like anything fps related, how much difference in frames will depend on your setup. I don't know the details of triple-buffering in windows, but it will result in input lag at the very least, and possibly decreased fps and stability depending on the specifics.
FPS affecting input lag should be pretty obvious, better fps = less room for input lag. If you ran at 60 fps and had your mouse or keyboard running at 125hz, your maximum input lag would be ~25ms ((1/60 + 1/125) * 1000) and your minimum would be the one with bigger latency (so 1/60*1000, or ~17ms), with no other factors involved. At 240 fps with 125hz, that max goes down to ~12ms with a minimum of 8ms (from the 125hz).
In a nutshell, only 1 application communicates with the graphics card at a time. In exclusive fullscreen, that application is hl2.exe. In windowed, borderless or otherwise, that application is dwm.exe. DWM has vsync forced on because tearing on the desktop when dragging windows around would be gross. So basically if you're playing in windowed mode (on win10/8/7 with aero on), you are playing with vsync on. The same downsides to playing with vsync on apply here.
As to your question about FPS, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjWSRTYV8e0
In a nutshell, only 1 application communicates with the graphics card at a time. In exclusive fullscreen, that application is hl2.exe. In windowed, borderless or otherwise, that application is dwm.exe. DWM has vsync forced on because tearing on the desktop when dragging windows around would be gross. So basically if you're playing in windowed mode (on win10/8/7 with aero on), you are playing with vsync on. The same downsides to playing with vsync on apply here.
As to your question about FPS, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjWSRTYV8e0
What about the Steam Overlay? Will that cause any problems?
Thank you both for the detailed explanations, though! I'm gonna start playing in fullscreen and see if I see a boost in aim consistency.
What about the Steam Overlay? Will that cause any problems?
Thank you both for the detailed explanations, though! I'm gonna start playing in fullscreen and see if I see a boost in aim consistency.
is it still not possible to run -sw -nborder without increased input log on win10?
is it still not possible to run -sw -nborder without increased input log on win10?
now that he bumped it
does going borderless windowed in linux make a difference compared to windows
now that he bumped it
does going borderless windowed in linux make a difference compared to windows
the input lag is caused by desktop window manager(DWM) so does not impact linux
the input lag is caused by desktop window manager(DWM) so does not impact linux
not true, if you use a desktop environment which has a compositor running on the gpu and has a locked refresh rate, chances are you're gonna have input lag and basically vsync on. really noticable with Cinnamon and KDE.
not true, if you use a desktop environment which has a compositor running on the gpu and has a locked refresh rate, chances are you're gonna have input lag and basically vsync on. really noticable with Cinnamon and KDE.
jnkinow that he bumped it
does going borderless windowed in linux make a difference compared to windows
Depends entirely on your desktop environment/ window manager. I'm sure that certain environments have similar issues.
[quote=jnki]now that he bumped it
does going borderless windowed in linux make a difference compared to windows[/quote]
Depends entirely on your desktop environment/ window manager. I'm sure that certain environments have similar issues.
hoolii assume xfce is fine?
depends on if you have compositing enabled or not, check "window manager tweaks" and the compositing tab
[quote=hooli]i assume xfce is fine?[/quote]
depends on if you have compositing enabled or not, check "window manager tweaks" and the compositing tab