Why does everyone hate reckoner?

#1

EasyE

0 Frags – +

I personally don't find it that bad, but almost everyone else seems to hate it?

#2

nazara

95 Frags – +

everyone else hates it so I might as well too

#3

EoN

9 Frags – +

mid-2nd stalemate is aids

#4

skeez

76 Frags – +

im an american

#5

THEBILLDOZER

-16 Frags – +

nazaraeveryone else hates it so I might as well too

I've never even played the map and I hate it

[quote=nazara]everyone else hates it so I might as well too[/quote]
I've never even played the map and I hate it

#6

stizdo

4 Frags – +

people hate change
also theres just a cluster fuck of shit on ur screen at last and mid is pretty aids

#7

marauder

6 Frags – +

i have a bad computer and reckoner gives me sub par frames putting me at a disadvantage

#8

dishsoap

2 Frags – +

the map only becomes fun when i play mini sentry egnis

#9

Shitposter

12 Frags – +

I don't hate it. I think it's better than Granary and probably better than Metalworks. Part of the problem is a lot of people ban it every pug and never play it. Then when they have to play it they complain about it the whole time. I'm not saying it's the best map or anything. But it's not the worst.

#10

Azazel-

4 Frags – +

is new

#11

xaler

14 Frags – +

the mid is absolutely awful. besides that the map is decent.

#12

Vanquish

-3 Frags – +

.

#13

EasyE

7 Frags – +

WREnlighten me with actual points instead of the traditional "it's aids".

I mean what other than "its aids" what's wrong with the mid?(its probably obvious and im just dumb)

[quote=WR]Enlighten me with actual points instead of the traditional "it's aids".[/quote]

I mean what other than "its aids" what's wrong with the mid?(its probably obvious and im just dumb)

#14

riotbz

1 Frags – +

it's not a bad map, it's just that there are 7 or more maps better than it so no room for it in the map pool tbh

#15

Phi

cp_sunshine, cp_cardinal

10 Frags – +

I'm not gonna put much response into this thread (sorry!) but mid did get a good bit of changing in RC2. Not a complete overhaul, but enough to change lines-of-sight and how it'd feel playing it. I acknowledge the mid-second transition is a bit wobbly right now + some heavy analysis from people comfortable with picking it apart would be useful.

(i also hope people aren't bandwagoning too hard on 'hating' it but i understand not liking a map-in-progress as much as finished-level maps)

I'm not gonna put much response into this thread (sorry!) but mid did get a good bit of changing in RC2. Not a complete overhaul, but enough to change lines-of-sight and how it'd feel playing it. I acknowledge the mid-second transition is a bit wobbly right now + some heavy analysis from people comfortable with picking it apart would be useful.

(i also hope people aren't bandwagoning too hard on 'hating' it but i understand not liking a map-in-progress as much as finished-level maps)

#16

viper

7 Frags – +

EasyEI mean what other than "its aids" what's wrong with the mid?(its probably obvious and im just dumb)

the mid point is essentially a giant soup bowl with a beam across the top for people to spam down into splash damage hell

[quote=EasyE]I mean what other than "its aids" what's wrong with the mid?(its probably obvious and im just dumb)[/quote]

the mid point is essentially a giant soup bowl with a beam across the top for people to spam down into splash damage hell

#17

capnnofapn

2 Frags – +

Actually it's a cereal bowl

#18

bearodactyl

4 Frags – +

viperEasyEI mean what other than "its aids" what's wrong with the mid?(its probably obvious and im just dumb)
the mid point is essentially a giant soup bowl with a beam across the top for people to spam down into splash damage hellcapnnofapnActually it's a cereal bowl

i dont get why it's designed such that in order to cap the middle control point you are required to stand on lowground where you can be shot down at from virtually all angles
like can you imagine if badlands mid had the cap underneath the bridge that would make no sense no other 6s map forces you to be in such a shit position in order to cap
i feel like phi was playing ultiduo and thought "koth_ultiduo is a good map maybe i'll try to emulate that for 6s!"
also i get triggered by the fact that the last point is so open that alle can do the same crouchslide airpogo jump from safety in lobby and land right next to spawn to kill medics (who should probably just be holding in spawn so they dont get fucked)
literally no other map in the game is anywhere near that open like can you imagine if he tried to do that shit on process or gullywash lol its just not possible on any other map
you might be able to do something similar by pogoing thru main on badlands but even that's quite a stretch considering demos can trap above main and you'd get bodyblocked by their pocket/scout/whoever
since im from na ive never actually played a match on it so i cant comment on the aids stalemates between mid and second (even at i58 i didnt play it once nor did i see anyone play it, though tsc and erynn assured me that i would have to, as a justification for why it's still in na pugchamp's map pool... -_-)

[quote=viper][quote=EasyE]I mean what other than "its aids" what's wrong with the mid?(its probably obvious and im just dumb)[/quote]

the mid point is essentially a giant soup bowl with a beam across the top for people to spam down into splash damage hell[/quote]
[quote=capnnofapn]Actually it's a cereal bowl[/quote]
i dont get why it's designed such that in order to cap the middle control point you are required to stand on lowground where you can be shot down at from virtually all angles
like can you imagine if badlands mid had the cap underneath the bridge that would make no sense no other 6s map forces you to be in such a shit position in order to cap
i feel like phi was playing ultiduo and thought "koth_ultiduo is a good map maybe i'll try to emulate that for 6s!"
also i get triggered by the fact that the last point is so open that alle can do the same crouchslide airpogo jump from safety in lobby and land right next to spawn to kill medics (who should probably just be holding in spawn so they dont get fucked)
literally no other map in the game is anywhere near that open like can you imagine if he tried to do that shit on process or gullywash lol its just not possible on any other map
you might be able to do something similar by pogoing thru main on badlands but even that's quite a stretch considering demos can trap above main and you'd get bodyblocked by their pocket/scout/whoever
since im from na ive never actually played a match on it so i cant comment on the aids stalemates between mid and second (even at i58 i didnt play it once nor did i see anyone play it, though tsc and erynn assured me that i would have to, as a justification for why it's still in na pugchamp's map pool... -_-)

#19

EasyE

1 Frags – +

bearodactylsnip

I found this post from sideshow kind of randomly on the original reckoner map post.

SideshowI think you should leave the mid under the bridge. It provides the map with a unique element that also changes how teams have to approach the fights on mid.

It's easier to re-push as they're capping, and backcaps are pretty effective from mid to second. This should make it easy for teams to push into second and reduce mid-2nd stalemates, as the attacking team knows that if they beef, mid will be easier to recap for a while. It also means that you really have to lock out mid while capping, and ensure you have the fights on mid done before capping. I like it, more maps need to deviate from the norm a little to add some map diversity.

He pretty much sums up all of my thoughts about mid in that post actually.

And I think you could stop those alle bombs with an alert scout placed on the barrels or glass, but I've never actually had a demo do the alle bomb in a game before so who knows.

[quote=bearodactyl]
snip[/quote]
I found this post from sideshow kind of randomly on the original reckoner map post.

[quote=Sideshow]I think you should leave the mid under the bridge. It provides the map with a unique element that also changes how teams have to approach the fights on mid.

It's easier to re-push as they're capping, and backcaps are pretty effective from mid to second. This should make it easy for teams to push into second and reduce mid-2nd stalemates, as the attacking team knows that if they beef, mid will be easier to recap for a while. It also means that you really have to lock out mid while capping, and ensure you have the fights on mid done before capping. I like it, more maps need to deviate from the norm a little to add some map diversity.[/quote]

He pretty much sums up all of my thoughts about mid in that post actually.

And I think you could stop those alle bombs with an alert scout placed on the barrels or glass, but I've never actually had a demo do the alle bomb in a game before so who knows.

#20

corsa

9 Frags – +

@phi

mid is not that good yet. i feel like there are a couple ways of changing the mid and seeing where it goes from there. one way would be just simply remove the bridge, also potentially raising the elevation of the point slightly, then playing around with adding / changing the position of props around that area. as of right now, i can't really agree with anybody saying that making a point harder to capture by putting it on extreme low ground adds to the map. it's a solution to what sideshow said, i definitely agree, but i feel like that same solution could be achieved by other alternatives (haven't really thought about it too much, but something like changing the sizes of the chokes, and the distances from forward spawns to point / spawn times)

2nd seems pretty good. i would need to play it in an actual match / higher level play to see how the transitions work better. are people suggesting that the transition from mid to 2nd is bad? If so, one of the easiest solutions would be making it easier to dry push. to do this, you could make the batts area (top left from offensive pov) wider/larger so people can push it and have space to dm as a team. it seems like another possible reason for this would be because (i'm not sure, but the way the map is designed) it's possibly difficult to have a good uber to catch the team / med out since the entrances are quite far away from where you hold / spot the team pushing. I think you can potentially make lower closer to 2nd, so it's easier to have a good uber when you pop out the door. I'd have to play the map at a high level, but something with choke (toxic?) definitely needs to be changed.

the lobby on last should be reworked. I honestly don't like the idea of adding shutters to one of the last door entrances in order to fix something, but I think replacing that doorway with a shutter that's farther forward (from the offensive perspective) than the doorway would normally be could work. the actual last area seems good, despite being big, as some complain about.

@phi

mid is not that good yet. i feel like there are a couple ways of changing the mid and seeing where it goes from there. one way would be just simply remove the bridge, also potentially raising the elevation of the point slightly, then playing around with adding / changing the position of props around that area. as of right now, i can't really agree with anybody saying that making a point harder to capture [i]by putting it on extreme low ground[/i] [b]adds[/b] to the map. it's a solution to what sideshow said, i definitely agree, but i feel like that same solution could be achieved by other alternatives (haven't really thought about it too much, but something like changing the sizes of the chokes, and the distances from forward spawns to point / spawn times)

2nd seems pretty good. i would need to play it in an actual match / higher level play to see how the transitions work better. are people suggesting that the transition from mid to 2nd is bad? If so, one of the easiest solutions would be making it easier to dry push. to do this, you could make the batts area (top left from offensive pov) wider/larger so people can push it and have space to dm as a team. it seems like another possible reason for this would be because (i'm not sure, but the way the map is designed) it's possibly difficult to have a good uber to catch the team / med out since the entrances are quite far away from where you hold / spot the team pushing. I think you can potentially make lower closer to 2nd, so it's easier to have a good uber when you pop out the door. I'd have to play the map at a high level, but something with choke (toxic?) definitely needs to be changed.

the lobby on last should be reworked. I honestly don't like the idea of adding shutters to one of the last door entrances in order to fix something, but I think replacing that doorway with a shutter that's farther forward (from the offensive perspective) than the doorway would normally be could work. the actual last area seems good, despite being big, as some complain about.

#21

sage

3 Frags – +

the sheds and the containers in mid block vision so much
the way you have to cap in such a low area where you cant see notting in mid kinda sucks
last is huge like coldfront, even more open
oh and the left entrance to mid (think its called toxic) is impossible to push in most cases and the most chokey part of the map