yep, just did, the new version is beta 8, thanks for the heads up! :D

Thanks man! means a lot, water in source adds flavor, used it a lot in koth_dewm, and thought I'd continue on this map,

Just pushed a updated;

Beta 8 update:

- change captime to 3, 8 and 10 seconds
- removed respawn penalty/boost when team caps mid or second
- general optimization (you can read about it here: https://tf2maps.net/posts/420048/)
- updated a bunch of textures
- added some decals
- added a few props
- some movements and clip improvements
- removed unused cubemaps

I found this really minor detail that probably shouldn't be there, its on blue and red last behind the point
https://gyazo.com/66911d29e315e5a39fd1fc36612812c6

thanks! this issue was fixed in the new version!
here is a quick run through of all the other fixes included in the b11 update:

-new models and texture updates at the final capture point

-new models and some texture updates at the second capturepoint

-Cleaned up some of the noise at mid, also removed leafs on the lower parts of the ivys around the map (to easier see player shapes)

-added some new props and tweaked the light on the left side approaching second from mid, tried to make it look more like a sewer

-added some props to the cellar area near second, to make it look more like a...erm, cellar

-added some cages in the ceiling on right side approaching second from mid (just notices that you cant see them in the img, but they are there...)

these changes will hopefully make each area a little bit more unique and easy to remember, in addition I've added letter signs to each capture point in the hud (looks like this) - it's very experimental, I know its not "cp" standard, and if people hates it I'll remove it, my thoughts was to make it extra clear which point was which, and hopefully make it easier for new players, all feedback regarding this (and anything else) is greatly appreciated!

Full imgur album (contains a few more pictures)

in addition this update also contains:

-fixed a few clipping issues
-added/tweaked some props (not seen in the screenshots)
-fixed some displace issues/zfight
-added lod's to some models
-updated lighting

thanks for the support!

let's teach granary haters that straight maps > curved maps

these banners are obtrusive for rocket jumping and can block the view of rocket jumping or bounced enemies in last

http://i.imgur.com/EjN2enX.jpg

edit: small album with suggestions
People say there are too many flanks and that its too much like a maze. Maybe make certain areas visually different from others, give distinctive visuals to specific flanks or make routes clearer idk

I love the quake I feel!

:D

thanks!
what do you think about changing the flag to something like this http://imgur.com/NwvUzxP ...tearing it up a little above the platform,

neutralizing the platform by adding a route like this http://imgur.com/OZ4E1Vc accessible for attacking soldiers, demo and scouts...but possible for all defending classes to escape (might be hard to see, but suggestion is to add a small-short stair that connects the wooden platform for attackers with the narrow single staircase)

regarding the roof in the dark area at second capture point, do you mean raising the roof or adding clip for the wooden beams? http://imgur.com/v9FbEG1 (I noticed that the wooden beams are not clipped correctly, which will cause a abrupt halt if you interact with them)

thanks for your feedback!

1.- Flag: i think it would be easier to just remove it unless it can be made transparent

2.- Platform in last: it would be nice to lower the platform by at least 100 HU and also make it accessible to walking classes in general from the low ground. Connecting it to the right entrance to last could be interesting too

3.- on that roof i meant just deleting those small wooden beams on the roof so that you dont have an abrupt halt, yes

I like the flags, making them smaller should be fine but I love their aesthetic.

Awesome map

I had the chance to play a tf2 center on this and although the map is seriously aesthetically pleasing, in terms of gameplay, I would say I had a few issues with it

I can't say much for 2nd or last, it's not an organised game and there didn't seem to be anything particularly wrong with any of that, which is nice. And I really like the dropdown onto 2nd which allows for a fast push if they failed a last push, I think that's well executed, and I like the relatively neutral high ground on last.

But the mid is unfortunately really flawed. When you play the mid, it seems the best way to play is to just sit up top and spam the whole time, because from there you can see everywhere and it's very safe, the height advantage is far too significant for the side routes to do anything relevant, especially since you can see into it, and to top it off there's also a medium health pack. If you're stood there and the other team actually attacks you, you would have to seriously fuck it up in order to lose the mid

Actually it happens that if you sit up top it's also impossible to really attack aswell. If you're holding forwards then you have height ad and a health pack, and coming through the top you have an extreme choke which isn't going to go well if you try to uber through there, you're gonna get stuck against explosions you cannot move around and have a terrible uber.
Sitting far back on mid, the same thing basically happens as it does on mid. If you have equal ubers the first team to aggro will lose, but you have the added negative of you have to eventually aggro or they just keep getting forwards and then you just lose.
If the defenders have a sniper on the far back area, it sees literally every entrance except the one at the bottom which you can't push unless you have a deathwish. This is a serious problem because you're way too far away to do anything, you're forced massively early, you can barely get to the upper area with a sticky jump and I don't see how you would ever get in.

Not to mention if you do get to push them out, you end up putting a scout on the cap which is so far down he becomes completely irrelevant which maybe allows the enemy to repush if they'd have ad now.

So my solution to these problems would be as follows:-

I would redesign the flank routes so that you can potentially get behind without being spotted, so for me that'd be widening it and making a pillar that blocked vision to the upper area. I would remove the health from up top, there's no need for it, and I'd add hp to top off point. That way after the soldier is denied trying to get up there, he can at least get a meaningful rocket off, and he can jump again after taking health. I think this would make the mid fights a lot less grindy. I have no idea what I would do about the sniping problem, this is one of the struggles when you make a I-shaped map instead of an S-shaped map :-(

PS, you can hide stickies in the upper area pillars on mid, which imo is a big problem

thanks!

hoto b12 is here, it includes a lot of changes to areas included in previous feedback, some of these changes will change the way the map is played, I'm especially interested to hear from anyone that has previously played the map if the changes have improved the quality of the map or reversed...also what class got hit, overall I'm hoping to humbly nerf sniper and buff medic, spy, heavy and engineer

major changes:

at last...
- a new ramp has been added to the defending sides high ground, the size of the platform has also increased including a big window looking down the short stair https://imgur.com/PNxtNaY (this should enable a few more engineer spots and improve flow for less mobile classes, in addition add flank for defending/attacking team)
- the flags at last has been raised to lesser any intrusion on gameplay
- improved clipping

at second...
- a new drop, jump-entrance to highground at B-capture point from the cellar https://imgur.com/EqZa1IA
seen from bellow https://imgur.com/g44lols (good for a spy, or defending capturepoint from attackers in cellar, also shortens the path for attackers at last when spawning at the most forward spawn, i.e. soldiers and demoman)
- improved clipping

at mid...
- sight lines has been heavily reduced at middle, a new wooden-excavation-styled room has been added at the middle exit to mid https://imgur.com/d9o1vyb seen from inside https://imgur.com/tW0rP83 (nerf snipers overlooking the capturepoint, provide a safe space before attacking mid)
- the ammo/med pickup has been removed from the platform
- a medium medpack has been placed ontop of the middle capturepoint
- new wooden doors block the sight lines from the balcony https://imgur.com/yFHWvK8
- the balcony room has been increased - both in size and height https://imgur.com/eZgDJ97 (hopefully improve flank plays)
- improved clipping

also opened up a few walls with windows or fallen bricks https://imgur.com/P4vUD8s allowing further view of the skybox,

img album here: https://imgur.com/a/uttVb

the original post has been updated with download link and short changelog

changes to last are good.
might want to change the lower right spawn door, make it closer to the point or to the spawns because its almost completelly useless, or just move it somewhere higher closer to the left spawn door
lots of gimmicky edges and clipping where you can stand https://imgur.com/a/s3tXP

After playing 1 lobby on this map this is my feedback:
Very nice textures
Very nice layout (although very complex)
Dropdowns are cool
Very vertical but not too vertical
Signs and labels to help un-confuse
Second is very pretty
Rollouts are long which is cool
However:
Could do with more ammo packs
Fog is a little bit yuck
Skybox isn't super pretty
The colours are generally pretty grey, making it look less like a tf2 map, but maybe this is fine
Healthkit on mid should be moved, maybe the point should be lowered
On either second or last (cant remember) there is a random stone box which could probably be made to look more cool
The banners at mid should be modified so that players cant stand on the stone brick infront of them, since it's a little dumb imo

Overall i think the map is good and requires only pretty simple changes to be made very good.

thanks! will fix the clipping bugs and consider all your feedback for the next update!

I agree with these three, fog is a nice asthetic but has isnt a good idea in a map aiming to be competitive. A few more/bigger ammo would be a good thing as well.

Some more general feedback from lobby:

Too many flanks
Too many dropdowns
Hard to push out of last
"Middle" routes to mid are too chokey and tight (the lower dungeon and the cave on top of it)
Spawn exits are cumbersome

Thanks again for all the feedback!

hoto_b13 updates includes:

- layout changes near initial spawn and last capture point right side exit, new exit looks like this: https://imgur.com/lnNtdsK (compared to the old exit that looks like this: https://imgur.com/o8Vmp3A)
- the right side exit is more snug to the capture point, this is how it looks from the spawn: https://imgur.com/PMScfP6
- the exit leads to a half-highground-platform https://imgur.com/Vez1y3g this is how it looks from bellow: https://imgur.com/1P7wRe2 (this is the fastest way to defend last)

- a new side room w hp/ammo has been added bellow the new exit, approachable as attacker and defender, https://imgur.com/aMw83eJ (should make it easier for spies and other mobile classes to sneak out from last)

- a new window looking down on the B-capturepoint https://imgur.com/EimktyW and https://imgur.com/hm2CEvu (should make it easier to see people on the capture point, and overall make the "drop" less frustrating)

- the "cellar"-drop is now initially closed https://imgur.com/MCJ0yh2 and stays closed until attackers captures B-point, then it opens https://imgur.com/ZWc3GPA once B-has been reclaimed it closes, (should make it easier to re-take B-point, should make it faster for soldier/demo to reach last) - this is experimental, not sure how common it is for maps to have dynamic elements that changes depending on progress, if people hate it I will keep the door closed

- reworked the upper "middle" route, the cave exit is now wider https://imgur.com/vE7P9Bl (220-260 units, compared to 194 units in previous version)

- the window at mid is been increased in size, now possible for mobile classes to jump through https://imgur.com/nKpxOGI

- added a small ramp up to the left side window near last https://imgur.com/NGDtPLJ (classes no more has to jump to exit the window)

Minor updates:

- clipping improvements around pillars and mid
- updated the skybox (still wip)
- significantly decreased the fog
- added a few ammo packs around the map

The new version can be downloaded here:
https://tf2maps.net/downloads/heart-of-the-oak.3270/download?version=11693

Awesome new cellar

Last hugely favors defenders

https://i.imgur.com/VP5gEA6.jpg

Safe spot for snipers there

https://i.imgur.com/xVMfnI7.jpg

Another very easy one

Overall the platform has no drawbacks for defenders. It makes the last very one-dimensional and uninteresting for defenders.

I can hide sticks there (useless but looks weird)

https://i.imgur.com/KOQfiLo.jpg

The new window opening on mid is not wide enough to be used to jump out, and there is no ledge on the outside for jumpers to get inside. Quite frustrating.

If I was you i'd trash the last point area and work again from the base concept which is axial symmetry and a broken bridge across the room. I'd make a very simple and symmetrical spawn, treat the bridge as some kind of pyramid with stairs to access it from attackers and defenders side. Basically whoever controls the bridge wins, no more defender high ground platform bs. I'd make lobby exits to second 2x wider, even if it means adding pillars on second to block problematic sightlines.

https://i.imgur.com/ptSMif2.jpg

I'd also rework this ceiling ; make it like 10x higher and open the top to allow players from lobby to jump to second. Like it would be completely open between the two side doors, like a castle crenelated(is that even a word) wall and completely unspammable by people on second because they wouldnt know where players in lobby are. Plus it'd make it look like a castle ))

some feedback about small details
https://imgur.com/a/iULQR

thanks for the feedback!

I'll make sure to update it when I got time!