Why can you only have 2 stickies loaded and only 7 reserve ammo as Demo? I know you want to limit sticky trapping but 2 stickies won't kill anything and 7 stickies reserve ammo is nothing.

Imo it should be like 4 loaded and 12 or 16 reserve if you want to lower the ammo counts on Demo

your ammo reloads when you kill someone (do you need 9 stickies to kill someone?) also a demo with 4 stickies can basically sticky spam all the time and get kills with very little skill required. 2/7 is fine really

2 is enough to place a defensive sticky to tag a scout and go for pipes after that. I played some NA dm once and demos basically never had to stop to reload and could just vomit projectiles forever

also love how you finally made this thread the day after lamqta got around to fixing dm#1

updated tftrue on my servers so figured i could make this too :P

Servers are updated and running again.

Any reserved slot reservations from now until tomorrow 23:59 will go towards hugs.tf :)

Would love for this to be run in NA

So I already had a few people ask why Snipers aren't allowed in the DM server.
I think having a server with 1 sniper spot opened would be interesting to experiment with and I'd be up to change #3 to this but I wanna see some pro/cons first.

Since I barely play on dm servers myself, what would be some pro and cons for allowing sniper?
Yes/No poll: http://www.strawpoll.me/13914560

Furthermore, what is more preferred, Random or Fixed spawns (and why)?
Made a poll for that one: http://www.strawpoll.me/13914536

edit: added poll for sniper

make sure huntsman is allowed i need to practice

Sniper in DM has always been a bad idea since it doesn't offer any practice whatsoever for anyone else except the one person playing sniper which would end up being a waste of a slot in the server for someone else to play Soldier or Demoman at least.

It's also really bad because you would have a character being played in the server that is not being played as close to the mid point as all other classes, there's no reason for the Sniper to be anywhere near the mid point since he is still able to get a good amount of frags by having the best sightlines of the maps played.

And random spawns > fixed spawns, because you get a lot more action happening in the server then even if it would feel chaotic but it shouldn't matter since you would play in a DM server anyways to practice your aiming and DM, and you would see those happening less often in fixed spawn servers due to enemies having to come almost from their second point instead of surprising you from behind.

No to sniper because it is a purely self-centered pick in DM. Whereas I can improve myself when up against scouts, sollies and demo, I improve in no way by being chipped at from far away by a class that I am not only not engaged in, but that if I were to engage, I would gain nothing by shooting at. It's not like shooting at him will somehow improve skill. Only the sniper really gets to practice and everyone else has to put up with the annoyance it brings.

Fixed spawns because training should try to approach realistic scenarios and in a realistic scenario odds are you will be on the same side of the map as your team mates, with the enemy team on the other.

PS: Change some of the spawns that force you to walk a bit to get into the fight. It's especially annoying to spawn on wooden bridge in badlands or on right yard in granary. The extra few seconds needed to get into a fight are pointless and dumb.

Do you still limit stickies to 2 per clip as its fairly pointless to play like this. Melkor DM has Demoman with no restrictions and it is fine. When it comes to practising Demoman you want to have all the tools available to you and when you practise against it you want the Demo to not be restricted as what is the point of practising against a Demo with half their ammo as in real matches you will not face Demos that are handicapped like this.

keep stickies limited to 2 please, dm becomes very spammy otherwise (esp with fixed spawns)

i feel 4 stickies would be fine because good demos know how to use stickies in 1v1s and wont just spam or trap shit up in dm

I agree entirely with bloodis about snipers. I've also changed my mind and think random spawns are better now.

With this said I feel like demo is very weak compared to the other classes and you're often just a walking HP kit.
How about potentially adding 1 or 2 stickies in the clip but reducing their damage? Or maybe it's good that people focus demo so he gets more efficient use of his time (by constantly having something to shoot at). But it's fine either way I think

you shouldnt assume people will be good/do whats conducive to good practice

I really don't like the fixed spawns one. Its awful if you're on the 'losing team'. Especially on maps like badlands there's just no point, you come out of house or choke there's invariably some shitmuncher spamming and by the time you've even jumped you're already fucked. Some of the maps are alright for this, like snake, but maps like gran are tedious at best and borderline unplayable at worst.

thanks for the feedback!

Sniper: it really wouldn't make much sense to enable a sniper spot in the scenario of a tdm server, as bloodis described nicely.

Spawns: I'll keep them for now as they are, but will look into it if i get time during my holiday the next two weeks. Maybe I'll change #1 to random and #3 to fixed.

Also gonna update the Mappool for s28: replacing granary with sunshine, not sure if its worth changing badlands for the pro version too?

Stickies: I'll change the clip to 3 and see how it goes, if its still not enough we'll go with 4 or change it back to 2.

melkor server has 8 stickies and it's fine.

Do it.

.

I would like that aswell :)

increase the clip size for stickies yes

update blands plz, it still fixes splash bugs which is objectively better for dm

^

What's the point of cow mangler in dm?

only using 2 stickies in a fight is hugely unrealistic- you have to remember that stickies don't work the same as rockets/pipes in that you are not expecting to hit every shot but rather denying enemies space to force them into positions where they can be more easily killed. 2 stickies is not enough to do this, meaning a demo cannot practise using stickies the way they are meant to be used. I would suggest allowing 4/5 stickies per clip as this is a reasonable amount to use in a 1v1 while not allowing a demo to spam for long periods without hitting anything.

.

• demo now has 5 stickies in clip
  
• changed sv1 to random spawns
  
• changed badands to prolands
  
• changed granary to sunshine

sv3 will be down for atleast tomorrow, will change it to a fixed spawns one and apply the other updates when i get to it.

regarding the cowmangler, i assume this is more of a soap problem?

if there are any problems let me know :)

any server update?? :]

oh i totally forgot -.-''

Servers are updated now