T0mPeople just dont wanna play competitive. How is this so hard to realise. Please just fucking give up with this bullshit as the numbers arent going to rise to where it actually means something. We are always going to be a small community. Tf2 is never ever ever going to be like dota/cs/lol/ow.
Can we just enjoy what we have and have a non aids whitelist?
+1
The esport ship sailed a long time ago, it sucks but nothing will change that, whitelist or not.
No one 's getting stopped from playing competitive because he cant use natasha. Competitive numbers were never good to begin with, even when there were no unlocks in the game at all.
it's a shame because less worthy games made it to the big public (ie hots and heartstone) but nothing we can do will ever make TF2 an eSport.
Just keep the game as fun and simple as possible and let us enjoy our time playing without this bullshit "new casual players" excuse.
[quote=T0m]
People just dont wanna play competitive. How is this so hard to realise. Please just fucking give up with this bullshit as the numbers arent going to rise to where it actually means something. We are always going to be a small community. Tf2 is never ever ever going to be like dota/cs/lol/ow.
Can we just enjoy what we have and have a non aids whitelist?[/quote]
+1
The esport ship sailed a long time ago, it sucks but nothing will change that, whitelist or not.
No one 's getting stopped from playing competitive because he cant use natasha. Competitive numbers were never good to begin with, even when there were no unlocks in the game at all.
it's a shame because less worthy games made it to the big public (ie hots and heartstone) but nothing we can do will ever make TF2 an eSport.
Just keep the game as fun and simple as possible and let us enjoy our time playing without this bullshit "new casual players" excuse.
Hi, my name is Steve Phelps, you may know me from such services as TraderMAINeacs.org and Steezyweezy 24/7 2-Fort Fast-Respawn servers, and These Global Whitelist Changes Made Me Want To Start Playing Competitive Team Fortress 2 Right Away! Thank you! Looking For Team!
Before These Global White List Chang Es I Wasnt Even Considered To Be A Competitive Player BUT NOW I Have Become Very Interested!
I will also tell my brother Sophia that GLobaL wHItelist CHanges Happened, and IT WILL make Him CERTAINLY start competitive, with his my little pony mafia friends from his Steve Jobs-appreciation 24/7 turbine server! OMG
Hi, my name is Steve Phelps, you may know me from such services as TraderMAINeacs.org and Steezyweezy 24/7 2-Fort Fast-Respawn servers, and These Global Whitelist Changes Made Me Want To Start Playing Competitive Team Fortress 2 Right Away! Thank you! Looking For Team!
Before These Global White List Chang Es I Wasnt Even Considered To Be A Competitive Player BUT NOW I Have Become Very Interested!
I will also tell my brother Sophia that GLobaL wHItelist CHanges Happened, and IT WILL make Him CERTAINLY start competitive, with his my little pony mafia friends from his Steve Jobs-appreciation 24/7 turbine server! OMG
Funs
this is a good post rly clever
[quote=Funs][/quote]
this is a good post rly clever
Sergeant_BrownMuch like many others here, I could make paragraphs worth of theorycrafting about the DF and how it together with the Thruster and the Powerjack could make the Pyro almost exactly as good of a Roamer as a Soldier[...]
I would argue that the thruster is nearly completely useless as long as the powerjack is allowed. You switch weapon faster with the powerjack, you can always use it, you can use it both for long and short distances. The only thing it doesn't really do is give pyro more vertical mobility, which can probably be adequately substituted with the detonator (jumping) [not to mention the other qualities of the detonator].
[quote=Sergeant_Brown]
Much like many others here, I could make paragraphs worth of theorycrafting about the DF and how it together with the Thruster and the Powerjack could make the Pyro almost exactly as good of a Roamer as a Soldier[...][/quote]
I would argue that the thruster is nearly completely useless as long as the powerjack is allowed. You switch weapon faster with the powerjack, you can always use it, you can use it both for long and short distances. The only thing it doesn't really do is give pyro more vertical mobility, which can probably be adequately substituted with the detonator (jumping) [not to mention the other qualities of the detonator].
only took over a year to ban the mangler lmfao
only took over a year to ban the mangler lmfao
CollaideI would argue that the thruster is nearly completely useless as long as the powerjack is allowed. You switch weapon faster with the powerjack, you can always use it, you can use it both for long and short distances. The only thing it doesn't really do is give pyro more vertical mobility, which can probably be adequately substituted with the detonator (jumping) [not to mention the other qualities of the detonator].
I'd agree with this, especially since when you m2 with the DF you're stuck without a primary for a fairly long cooldown, and it's good to have a shotgun to take 1-2 shots after reflecting something (which you shouldn't really do, reflecting with the DF is only worth it if you can't tank the hit while doing damage)
And of course there's the scorch shot which pads dpm stats like crazy.
[quote=Collaide]
I would argue that the thruster is nearly completely useless as long as the powerjack is allowed. You switch weapon faster with the powerjack, you can always use it, you can use it both for long and short distances. The only thing it doesn't really do is give pyro more vertical mobility, which can probably be adequately substituted with the detonator (jumping) [not to mention the other qualities of the detonator].[/quote]
I'd agree with this, especially since when you m2 with the DF you're stuck without a primary for a fairly long cooldown, and it's good to have a shotgun to take 1-2 shots after reflecting something (which you shouldn't really do, reflecting with the DF is only worth it if you can't tank the hit while doing damage)
And of course there's the scorch shot which pads dpm stats like crazy.
4hp
I agree with you, but I was talking about all flamethrowers not only the DF.
[quote=4hp][/quote]
I agree with you, but I was talking about all flamethrowers not only the DF.
CollaideSergeant_BrownMuch like many others here, I could make paragraphs worth of theorycrafting about the DF and how it together with the Thruster and the Powerjack could make the Pyro almost exactly as good of a Roamer as a Soldier[...]
I would argue that the thruster is nearly completely useless as long as the powerjack is allowed. You switch weapon faster with the powerjack, you can always use it, you can use it both for long and short distances. The only thing it doesn't really do is give pyro more vertical mobility, which can probably be adequately substituted with the detonator (jumping) [not to mention the other qualities of the detonator].
Yes, the Powerjack is objectively better than the Thruster if all these 3 conditions are met: 1) you can flank someone quickly (AKA flanking a demoman behind the Process rock while you're on the other side); 2) said someone doesn't see you coming (AKA said demoman not placing stickies on his side of the rock); 3) your situation happens in a cramped location (AKA Process PC room). If any of these conditions aren't meant, then you're better off using the Thruster or not switching off your Primary in the first place.
Fact of the matter is, the difference in distance travelled between the Thruster and the Powerjack is practically unnoticeable (we're talking at most 1 second here); the only difference is that one sticks you to the ground like a slower Scout that can't doublejump and is only good at rollouts, and the other gives you enough air time to actually approach people with minimal retaliation, nevermind the fact that both can be equipped at the same time so you get the best of both worlds regardless.
No, what really matters here is the Detonator vs. Thruster debate, and even then the Thruster wins by a landslide most of the time: the Detonator Jumps cost about as much HP as a Non-Gunboats Rocket Jumps for only half of the latter's height gain, half of its useful jumps are only accessible by C-Tapping (something that I still consider to be an exploit given how most people would rather script-scum it in order to get consistent at it) and it's such a bad Flare Gun in itself that the goddamned Manmelter sounds more appealing by comparison -- it's a Jack-Of-No-Trades through and through.
Meanwhile, the Thruster trades away the "Worse Scorch Shot" part of the Detonator in exchange for Jet Jumps that have as much height gain as Rocket Jumps for no HP cost, all the while reducing fall damage down to an insignificant fraction of what it usually is in the process. Even if you were to take its horrible switch speeds and the lack of a proper Secondary into account, the Thruster still trumps the Detonator in most cases, but especially so in 5CP Midfights where a JetPyro can literally offset its Primary's biggest weakness by "bombing" a Medic/Demoman from one side of the Mid area to the other.
[quote=Collaide][quote=Sergeant_Brown]
Much like many others here, I could make paragraphs worth of theorycrafting about the DF and how it together with the Thruster and the Powerjack could make the Pyro almost exactly as good of a Roamer as a Soldier[...][/quote]
I would argue that the thruster is nearly completely useless as long as the powerjack is allowed. You switch weapon faster with the powerjack, you can always use it, you can use it both for long and short distances. The only thing it doesn't really do is give pyro more vertical mobility, which can probably be adequately substituted with the detonator (jumping) [not to mention the other qualities of the detonator].[/quote]
Yes, the Powerjack is objectively better than the Thruster if all these 3 conditions are met: 1) you can flank someone quickly (AKA flanking a demoman behind the Process rock while you're on the other side); 2) said someone doesn't see you coming (AKA said demoman not placing stickies on his side of the rock); 3) your situation happens in a cramped location (AKA Process PC room). If any of these conditions aren't meant, then you're better off using the Thruster or not switching off your Primary in the first place.
Fact of the matter is, the difference in distance travelled between the Thruster and the Powerjack is practically unnoticeable (we're talking at most 1 second here); the only difference is that one sticks you to the ground like a slower Scout that can't doublejump and is only good at rollouts, and the other gives you enough air time to actually approach people with minimal retaliation, nevermind the fact that both can be equipped at the same time so you get the best of both worlds regardless.
No, what really matters here is the Detonator vs. Thruster debate, and even then the Thruster wins by a landslide most of the time: the Detonator Jumps cost about as much HP as a Non-Gunboats Rocket Jumps for only half of the latter's height gain, half of its useful jumps are only accessible by C-Tapping (something that I still consider to be an exploit given how most people would rather script-scum it in order to get consistent at it) and it's such a bad Flare Gun in itself that the goddamned Manmelter sounds more appealing by comparison -- it's a Jack-Of-No-Trades through and through.
Meanwhile, the Thruster trades away the "Worse Scorch Shot" part of the Detonator in exchange for Jet Jumps that have as much height gain as Rocket Jumps for no HP cost, all the while reducing fall damage down to an insignificant fraction of what it usually is in the process. Even if you were to take its horrible switch speeds and the lack of a proper Secondary into account, the Thruster still trumps the Detonator in most cases, but especially so in 5CP Midfights where a JetPyro can literally offset its Primary's biggest weakness by "bombing" a Medic/Demoman from one side of the Mid area to the other.
yeah kinda sad that the main player base would rather do conga in spawn and call better players than them "try hard", rather than take the game seriously
yeah kinda sad that the main player base would rather do conga in spawn and call better players than them "try hard", rather than take the game seriously
Sergeant_Brown
I disagree with your original premise, and most of the points you conclude after. powerjack + detonator is by far more well-rounded and consistent of a combination than any other combination of pyro secondary and melee.
For instance, you seem to think pyros will be able to bomb the enemy team, but no they won't... It takes too much time to switch to the jetpack and to switch back to your weapon, you will already be dead by then, and not to mention a scout on highground would have denied you already. Pyro is closer to being a generalist than ever before but not in the way you are suggesting.
[quote=Sergeant_Brown][/quote]
I disagree with your original premise, and most of the points you conclude after. powerjack + detonator is by far more well-rounded and consistent of a combination than any other combination of pyro secondary and melee.
For instance, you seem to think pyros will be able to bomb the enemy team, but no they won't... It takes too much time to switch to the jetpack and to switch back to your weapon, you will already be dead by then, and not to mention a scout on highground would have denied you already. Pyro is closer to being a generalist than ever before but not in the way you are suggesting.
CollaideSergeant_Brown
I disagree with your original premise, and most of the points you conclude after. powerjack + detonator is by far more well-rounded and consistent of a combination than any other combination of pyro secondary and melee.
For instance, you seem to think pyros will be able to bomb the enemy team, but no they won't... It takes too much time to switch to the jetpack and to switch back to your weapon, you will already be dead by then, and not to mention a scout on highground would have denied you already. Pyro is closer to being a generalist than ever before but not in the way you are suggesting.
You say that a JetPyro can be easily denied by Scouts almost like if Soldiers didn't already face that problem to begin with. Not only that, but it *is* possible to switch back from the Thruster to your Primary before you land, so long as you're willing to give a wider arc to your jump in order to do so.
But I will grant you this: if the Thruster's switch speeds were cut in half, then the Dragon Fury/Thruster/Powerjack set would make the Pyro at the very least as viable of a Roamer as Soldier.
[quote=Collaide][quote=Sergeant_Brown][/quote]
I disagree with your original premise, and most of the points you conclude after. powerjack + detonator is by far more well-rounded and consistent of a combination than any other combination of pyro secondary and melee.
For instance, you seem to think pyros will be able to bomb the enemy team, but no they won't... It takes too much time to switch to the jetpack and to switch back to your weapon, you will already be dead by then, and not to mention a scout on highground would have denied you already. Pyro is closer to being a generalist than ever before but not in the way you are suggesting.[/quote]
You say that a JetPyro can be easily denied by Scouts almost like if Soldiers didn't already face that problem to begin with. Not only that, but it *is* possible to switch back from the Thruster to your Primary before you land, so long as you're willing to give a wider arc to your jump in order to do so.
But I will grant you this: if the Thruster's switch speeds were cut in half, then the Dragon Fury/Thruster/Powerjack set would make the Pyro at the very least as viable of a Roamer as Soldier.
[img]https://puu.sh/yPifg/d32c2ccea3.png[/img]
It's funny how every single season there's a thread like this, and every time nothing significantly happens. I read a few comments and as they said, you aint going to get new players into the competitive scene by changing a few things. Why try all this shit if all you get is angry players THAT ACTUALLY PLAY COMP that might end up quitting because of all the fucking bullshit that keeps on happening?
It's funny how every single season there's a thread like this, and every time nothing significantly happens. I read a few comments and as they said, you aint going to get new players into the competitive scene by changing a few things. Why try all this shit if all you get is angry players THAT ACTUALLY PLAY COMP that might end up quitting because of all the fucking bullshit that keeps on happening?
damneasy
Agreed. TF2 is long gone from the e-sports train and will never get bigger, unfortunately. And I dont understand why we are trying to cater to people by unbanning more weapons in hopes that they will start playing 6s now that their favourite strange professional killstreak festive australium unusual weapon is unbanned and they can show it to whole world?
Let's just try to keep the current players playing the game by keeping the whitelist as non-aids as possible. Some ppl will start to play comp regardless of the whitelist with the same degree as they have.
[quote=damneasy][/quote]
Agreed. TF2 is long gone from the e-sports train and will never get bigger, unfortunately. And I dont understand why we are trying to cater to people by unbanning more weapons in hopes that they will start playing 6s now that their favourite strange professional killstreak festive australium unusual weapon is unbanned and they can show it to whole world?
Let's just try to keep the current players playing the game by keeping the whitelist as non-aids as possible. Some ppl will start to play comp regardless of the whitelist with the same degree as they have.
Via-saw apparently has a serious bug, https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/7mia2u/spraying_needles_and_switching_to_the_vitasaw/
not exactly how I would've tried to balance the crossbow....
not exactly how I would've tried to balance the crossbow....
deguVia-saw apparently has a serious bug, https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/7mia2u/spraying_needles_and_switching_to_the_vitasaw/
It's only a visual glitch, it doesn't add to your organs count
[quote=degu]Via-saw apparently has a serious bug, https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/7mia2u/spraying_needles_and_switching_to_the_vitasaw/[/quote]
It's only a visual glitch, it doesn't add to your organs count
[img]https://i.imgur.com/eSp5ggh.jpg[/img]
this entire discussion
Marxistnot exactly how I would've tried to balance the crossbow....
Lolwat. The healing just needs to be reduced enough that it doesn't outheal the medigun and only provides a way to heal teamates at longer ranges, and still not do a ridiculous 150 max heal.
On a similar note, i don't know how the pistol's rng could be removed without it being annoying at long range and too strong close range. Maybe a range cap and reduced damage but idk.
[quote=Marxist]not exactly how I would've tried to balance the crossbow....[/quote]
Lolwat. The healing just needs to be reduced enough that it doesn't outheal the medigun and only provides a way to heal teamates at longer ranges, and still not do a ridiculous 150 max heal.
On a similar note, i don't know how the pistol's rng could be removed without it being annoying at long range and too strong close range. Maybe a range cap and reduced damage but idk.
paiCdamneasy
Agreed. TF2 is long gone from the e-sports train and will never get bigger, unfortunately. And I dont understand why we are trying to cater to people by unbanning more weapons in hopes that they will start playing 6s now that their favourite strange professional killstreak festive australium unusual weapon is unbanned and they can show it to whole world?
Let's just try to keep the current players playing the game by keeping the whitelist as non-aids as possible. Some ppl will start to play comp regardless of the whitelist with the same degree as they have.
you will never convince the people here of that
[quote=paiC][quote=damneasy][/quote]
Agreed. TF2 is long gone from the e-sports train and will never get bigger, unfortunately. And I dont understand why we are trying to cater to people by unbanning more weapons in hopes that they will start playing 6s now that their favourite strange professional killstreak festive australium unusual weapon is unbanned and they can show it to whole world?
Let's just try to keep the current players playing the game by keeping the whitelist as non-aids as possible. Some ppl will start to play comp regardless of the whitelist with the same degree as they have.[/quote]
you will never convince the people here of that
atomizer is only a bit less annoying than it used to be, you can switch to it and instantly get a 3rd jump without having to wait for the item to be fully switched. I'm already contemplating the noose as a soldier main if both scouts are running atomizer + winger scripts this season. It pisses me off in hl where none of the scouts are humans so I can't imagine how annoying it would be against two competent scouts
atomizer is only a bit less annoying than it used to be, you can switch to it and instantly get a 3rd jump without having to wait for the item to be fully switched. I'm already contemplating the noose as a soldier main if both scouts are running atomizer + winger scripts this season. It pisses me off in hl where none of the scouts are humans so I can't imagine how annoying it would be against two competent scouts
^Also I hate winger, it's direct upgrade for pistol, pistol does not reward even perfect tracking for shit. You are always better off reloading your scatter.
So now what we will have is scouts having access to every single possible highground in every single map with no issues. Soldiers are going to have a lot of fun. And I thought ppl generally said scout is frustrating because of how fucking destroying the class is if you've got aim.
Imo both winger and atomizer should be banned, but winger only cuz I'm so accustomed to using normal PISTOL and the weapon really just gives scout the ability to jump higher with literally only downside being NO-QUADPISTOL.
^Also I hate winger, it's direct upgrade for pistol, pistol does not reward even perfect tracking for shit. You are always better off reloading your scatter.
So now what we will have is scouts having access to every single possible highground in every single map with no issues. Soldiers are going to have a lot of fun. And I thought ppl generally said scout is frustrating because of how fucking destroying the class is if you've got aim.
Imo both winger and atomizer should be banned, but winger only cuz I'm so accustomed to using normal PISTOL and the weapon really just gives scout the ability to jump higher with literally only downside being NO-QUADPISTOL.
Puoskari^Also I hate winger, it's direct upgrade for pistol, pistol does not reward even perfect tracking for shit. You are always better off reloading your scatter.
So now what we will have is scouts having access to every single possible highground in every single map with no issues. Soldiers are going to have a lot of fun. And I thought ppl generally said scout is frustrating because of how fucking destroying the class is if you've got aim.
Imo both winger and atomizer should be banned, but winger only cuz I'm so accustomed to using normal PISTOL and the weapon really just gives scout the ability to jump higher with literally only downside being NO-QUADPISTOL.
Okay my pistol is dog shit and even I can see that the winger is just worse for DM based fights. Idk if your pistol is just like 10% or something but there are for sure situations that reloading pistol is better and with the winger you just can't do the same amount of damage. If you want a more consistent load out the pistol is the best option, if you're playing one of the like 3 maps with useful winger jumps, you can also play with winger.
[quote=Puoskari]^Also I hate winger, it's direct upgrade for pistol, pistol does not reward even perfect tracking for shit. You are always better off reloading your scatter.
So now what we will have is scouts having access to every single possible highground in every single map with no issues. Soldiers are going to have a lot of fun. And I thought ppl generally said scout is frustrating because of how fucking destroying the class is if you've got aim.
Imo both winger and atomizer should be banned, but winger only cuz I'm so accustomed to using normal PISTOL and the weapon really just gives scout the ability to jump higher with literally only downside being NO-QUADPISTOL.[/quote]
Okay my pistol is dog shit and even I can see that the winger is just worse for DM based fights. Idk if your pistol is just like 10% or something but there are for sure situations that reloading pistol is better and with the winger you just can't do the same amount of damage. If you want a more consistent load out the pistol is the best option, if you're playing one of the like 3 maps with useful winger jumps, you can also play with winger.
PetePuoskari
Idk if your pistol is just like 10% or something
:thinking:
[quote=Pete][quote=Puoskari][/quote]Idk if your pistol is just like 10% or something[/quote]
:thinking:
Ballsy changes, I like them.
Ballsy changes, I like them.
PetePuoskari
Idk if your pistol is just like 10% or something
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbyVangsL48
[quote=Pete][quote=Puoskari][/quote]Idk if your pistol is just like 10% or something[/quote]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbyVangsL48[/youtube]
Something going on https://imgur.com/a/zvEAe
I N V I T E I L L U M I N A T I
I N V I T E I L L U M I N A T I
T0mSo how many season has it been now since this idea of unbanning everything will encourage people to play comp tf2?
Numbers for leagues are still declining and fucking no one plays the actual matchmaking game mode. This whole if we unban the engie/pyro/heavy/spy will make the people who main those want to play 6s is just ridiculous. The game mode itself makes these classes pointless. Engie will get run over by everything, spy is easily counterable if u actually pay attention to the game, pyro will get run over by coordinated scouts. The argument for heavy might be there as there has been some success with muuki running it to mids but even then you can deal with it with some simple coordination.
People just dont wanna play competitive. How is this so hard to realise. Please just fucking give up with this bullshit as the numbers arent going to rise to where it actually means something. We are always going to be a small community. Tf2 is never ever ever going to be like dota/cs/lol/ow.
Can we just enjoy what we have and have a non aids whitelist?
xbow
ubersaw
kritz
gunboats
escape plan
class limits:
2
2
0
1
1
1
1
1
1
i know this has been said over and over again but i sincerely believe most people never wanted any of the other unlocks if it wasn't for a single ex tf2 dev saying "i find 6v6 boring", which resulted in people going ahead and unbanning as much crap as possible in hopes of
1. getting more support from valve - which never happened, unless you consider a half-assed gamemode that calls itself "Matchmaking" which no one ever plays and is full of cheaters actual support
2. getting more pubbers to play competitive - has likely not happened much compared to tons of entertaining streamers and tons of resources built up and maintained by very few people (ToTH, huds.tf, whitelist.tf, comp.tf, serveme.tf, fps configs, logs.tf/sizzlingstats.com, tragicservers, tf2lobby.com/tf2center.com/tf2pickup.net/pugchamp.gg/, fragmovies/fragshows)
[quote=T0m]So how many season has it been now since this idea of unbanning everything will encourage people to play comp tf2?
Numbers for leagues are still declining and fucking no one plays the actual matchmaking game mode. This whole if we unban the engie/pyro/heavy/spy will make the people who main those want to play 6s is just ridiculous. The game mode itself makes these classes pointless. Engie will get run over by everything, spy is easily counterable if u actually pay attention to the game, pyro will get run over by coordinated scouts. The argument for heavy might be there as there has been some success with muuki running it to mids but even then you can deal with it with some simple coordination.
People just dont wanna play competitive. How is this so hard to realise. Please just fucking give up with this bullshit as the numbers arent going to rise to where it actually means something. We are always going to be a small community. Tf2 is never ever ever going to be like dota/cs/lol/ow.
Can we just enjoy what we have and have a non aids whitelist?[/quote]
xbow
ubersaw
kritz
gunboats
escape plan
class limits:
2
2
0
1
1
1
1
1
1
i know this has been said over and over again but i sincerely believe most people never wanted any of the other unlocks if it wasn't for a single ex tf2 dev saying "i find 6v6 boring", which resulted in people going ahead and unbanning as much crap as possible in hopes of
1. getting more support from valve - which never happened, unless you consider a half-assed gamemode that calls itself "Matchmaking" which no one ever plays and is full of cheaters actual support
2. getting more pubbers to play competitive - has likely not happened much compared to tons of entertaining streamers and tons of resources built up and maintained by very few people (ToTH, huds.tf, whitelist.tf, comp.tf, serveme.tf, fps configs, logs.tf/sizzlingstats.com, tragicservers, tf2lobby.com/tf2center.com/tf2pickup.net/pugchamp.gg/, fragmovies/fragshows)