I'd like to start by saying that this is not a stance on whether or not I think any mentioned player cheats or not, but rather about the favoritism and inconsistency the admin team showcases.
I will also retract everything in case the admins do decide to back off regarding this decision after the massive amount of critisism provided by people in the scene. (jk lol)
ETF2L Rules Page2.4.1 Penalties for not providing requested demos
Failure to supply a requested demo will result in penalties for both the player and their team. If a player fails to supply their demos multiple times while playing for the same team the team will be given a more severe punishment.
Player penalties.
– First time: No ban.
– Second time: Player is banned for two weeks from all ETF2L competitions.
– Third time: Player is banned for two months from all ETF2L competitions.
– Fourth time or more: Player is banned for one year from all ETF2L competitions.
As of saturday, 17th of March, ETF2L Premiership player Thaigrr (currently playing for the top 2nd seed, team Se7en) has failed to submit requested demos 3 times, meaning that according to the aforementioned rules, he should face a two month ban from all ETF2L competitions. An understandable rule, seeing as demo evidence is the only way to determine the legitimacy of a player by the AC team, and it's not a first offense either. What does this mean for team Se7en heading into the playoffs?
Word on the street says that absolutely nothing! On sunday, 18th of March, Team Se7en receives a minor warning for unsubmitted demo, yet as you can see from this picture, he still remains eligible to play in the league. Now I wouldn't be worried since theres still time for the League Staff to ban him before the playoffs, but after talking about this with quite a few people inside the community, I received some alarming statements from ETF2L Representatives stating that they do not want to ban him because of too many ban posts within a small timeframe and because they want to keep the "competitive edge" of the potential grand finals (allowing a person who dodges every AC check sent his way to play?).
Rules are rules for a reason, and especially in an online game, you can never be too sure of who cheats and who doesn't (could list a big list of previous community figures who ended up being cheaters, banned and some never banned but the list is too big for me to bother with). Why is one team allowed this kind of privilege? The admins cite "ban posts and bans bundled together" as a reason for not giving an individual a single ban, but these are the Playoffs from the highest EU division. Why are the admins not keeping it fair for everyone? The statement also makes no sense since if you go look at the ETF2L ban page, you can find multiple instances of players getting banned singularly, even if the actual announcement is bundled together with other bans.
Another case that makes this even more confusing is that the admins are willing to swap out the 4th placed team Nunya for the 5th placed team Omni5 in the playoffs without the 4th placed teams consent, even though they haven't even broken any rules (apart from running two heavies). Clearly they are ready to apply special cases to some teams, but not to others just because he happens to play on lord Bug's team. Double standards much? Won't go too much into this one though.
Hope you had an enjoyable time reading this and I hope that people care enough about keeping the game cheater-free that you understand why this should not be allowed. Don't do drugs, kids.
I'd like to start by saying that this is not a stance on whether or not I think any mentioned player cheats or not, but rather about the favoritism and inconsistency the admin team showcases.
I will also retract everything in case the admins do decide to back off regarding this decision after the massive amount of critisism provided by people in the scene. (jk lol)
[quote=ETF2L Rules Page]2.4.1 Penalties for not providing requested demos
Failure to supply a requested demo will result in penalties for both the player and their team. If a player fails to supply their demos multiple times while playing for the same team the team will be given a more severe punishment.
Player penalties.
– First time: No ban.
– Second time: Player is banned for two weeks from all ETF2L competitions.
– Third time: Player is banned for two months from all ETF2L competitions.
– Fourth time or more: Player is banned for one year from all ETF2L competitions.[/quote]
As of saturday, 17th of March, ETF2L Premiership player [url=http://etf2l.org/forum/user/68879/]Thaigrr[/url] (currently playing for the [s]top[/s] 2nd seed, team [url=http://etf2l.org/teams/22474/]Se7en[/url]) has failed to submit requested demos 3 times, meaning that according to the aforementioned rules, he should face a two month ban from all ETF2L competitions. An understandable rule, seeing as demo evidence is the only way to determine the legitimacy of a player by the AC team, and it's not a first offense either. What does this mean for team Se7en heading into the playoffs?
Word on the street says that absolutely nothing! On sunday, 18th of March, [url=http://etf2l.org/matches/71556/#comment-642119]Team Se7en receives a minor warning for unsubmitted demo[/url], yet as you can see from [url=https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/139862388026507264/425112624645013504/11eadc8a6e.png]this picture[/url], he still remains eligible to play in the league. Now I wouldn't be worried since theres still time for the League Staff to ban him before the playoffs, but after talking about this with quite a few people inside the community, I received some [url=https://puu.sh/zLeoO/e8da401b28.png]alarming statements[/url] from ETF2L Representatives stating that they do not want to ban him because of too many ban posts within a small timeframe and because they want to keep the "competitive edge" of the potential grand finals (allowing a person who dodges every AC check sent his way to play?).
Rules are rules for a reason, and especially in an online game, you can never be too sure of who cheats and who doesn't (could list a big list of previous community figures who ended up being cheaters, banned and some never banned but the list is too big for me to bother with). Why is one team allowed this kind of privilege? The admins cite "ban posts and bans bundled together" as a reason for not giving an individual a single ban, but these are the Playoffs from the highest EU division. Why are the admins not keeping it fair for everyone? The statement also makes no sense since if you go look at [url=http://etf2l.org/etf2l/bans/]the ETF2L ban page[/url], you can find multiple instances of players getting banned singularly, even if the actual announcement is bundled together with other bans.
Another case that makes this even more confusing is that the admins are willing to swap out the 4th placed team Nunya for the 5th placed team Omni5 in the playoffs without the 4th placed teams consent, even though they haven't even broken any rules (apart from running two heavies). Clearly they are ready to apply special cases to some teams, but not to others just because he happens to play on lord Bug's team. Double standards much? Won't go too much into this one though.
Hope you had an enjoyable time reading this and I hope that people care enough about keeping the game cheater-free that you understand why this should not be allowed. Don't do drugs, kids.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/bpTAGtm.jpg[/img]
You can't ban prem players even if they don't respect the rules, that's how premiership works ..
You can't ban prem players even if they don't respect the rules, that's how premiership works ..
Disappointing if true. I've always admired the ETF2L staff's resolute integrity in dispensing punishment left and right to offenders, regardless of their status in the community. To see this falter, especially in the most important time of the league, is worrisome. I suspect they'll use the argument that the 2 month ban means more if they put it into effect at a time which forces Thaigrr to skip a full season, with the motive that this applies the "full punishment". It's an argument I'd agree in most cases, but this is not one of them. Premiership playoffs are too big of a deal. I don't recall if ETF2L still offers monetary prizes for Premiership winners, but if they do that only further aggravates the problem. More than just following the rules this is also about the integrity of the league.
Disappointing if true. I've always admired the ETF2L staff's resolute integrity in dispensing punishment left and right to offenders, regardless of their status in the community. To see this falter, especially in the most important time of the league, is worrisome. I suspect they'll use the argument that the 2 month ban means more if they put it into effect at a time which forces Thaigrr to skip a full season, with the motive that this applies the "full punishment". It's an argument I'd agree in most cases, but this is not one of them. Premiership playoffs are too big of a deal. I don't recall if ETF2L still offers monetary prizes for Premiership winners, but if they do that only further aggravates the problem. More than just following the rules this is also about the integrity of the league.
Same league that also did...
http://www.teamfortress.tv/14546/yo-etf2l-fucking-sucks
my sources tell me thaigrr only got off the hook because he bribed the admins with his secret anime stash
my sources tell me thaigrr only got off the hook because he bribed the admins with his secret anime stash
thank you for posting about this, was worried it might get passed over
thank you for posting about this, was worried it might get passed over
cant believe im on a team with admins, truly disappointed.
cant believe im on a team with admins, truly disappointed.
rules are rules. we should be holding everyone to the same standards.
rules are rules. we should be holding everyone to the same standards.
I hear the drums echoing tonight
But she hears only whispers of some quiet conversation
She's coming in, 12:30 flight
The moonlit wings reflect the stars that guide me towards salvation
I stopped an old man along the way
Hoping to find some long forgotten words or ancient melodies
He turned to me as if to say, "Hurry boy, it's waiting there for you"
It's gonna take a lot to take me away from you
There's nothing that a hundred men or more could ever do
I bless the rains down in Africa
Gonna take some time to do the things we never had
The wild dogs cry out in the night
As they grow restless, longing for some solitary company
I know that I must do what's right
As sure as Kilimanjaro rises like Olympus above the Serengeti
I seek to cure what's deep inside, frightened of this thing that I've become
It's gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
There's nothing that a hundred men or more could ever do
I bless the rains down in Africa
Gonna take some time to do the things we never had
Hurry boy, she's waiting there for you
It's gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
There's nothing that a hundred men or more could ever do
I bless the rains down in Africa
I bless the rains down in Africa
(I bless the rain)
I bless the rains down in Africa
(I bless the rain)
I bless the rains down in Africa
I bless the rains down in Africa
(Ah, gonna take the time)
Gonna take some time to do the things we never had
I hear the drums echoing tonight
But she hears only whispers of some quiet conversation
She's coming in, 12:30 flight
The moonlit wings reflect the stars that guide me towards salvation
I stopped an old man along the way
Hoping to find some long forgotten words or ancient melodies
He turned to me as if to say, "Hurry boy, it's waiting there for you"
It's gonna take a lot to take me away from you
There's nothing that a hundred men or more could ever do
I bless the rains down in Africa
Gonna take some time to do the things we never had
The wild dogs cry out in the night
As they grow restless, longing for some solitary company
I know that I must do what's right
As sure as Kilimanjaro rises like Olympus above the Serengeti
I seek to cure what's deep inside, frightened of this thing that I've become
It's gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
There's nothing that a hundred men or more could ever do
I bless the rains down in Africa
Gonna take some time to do the things we never had
Hurry boy, she's waiting there for you
It's gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
There's nothing that a hundred men or more could ever do
I bless the rains down in Africa
I bless the rains down in Africa
(I bless the rain)
I bless the rains down in Africa
(I bless the rain)
I bless the rains down in Africa
I bless the rains down in Africa
(Ah, gonna take the time)
Gonna take some time to do the things we never had
I did enjoy reading that, thank you.
I did enjoy reading that, thank you.
Thaigrr playing ugc 6s? :o
Thaigrr playing ugc 6s? :o
Would be pretty stupid of etf2l to allow this to happen, if they dont enforce rules on this high level of play, why would anyone else respect them?
Would be pretty stupid of etf2l to allow this to happen, if they dont enforce rules on this high level of play, why would anyone else respect them?
lol who gives a fuck its tf2
lol who gives a fuck its tf2
very well written muuk i can feel your passion
very well written muuk i can feel your passion
Admins are only living up to the low expectation they set at the start of the season by allowing players from last seasons prem winning team to play in the Low and Mid divisions this season.
Show Content
(Alle in low and Thaigrr in mid to be precise)
Admins are only living up to the low expectation they set at the start of the season by allowing players from last seasons prem winning team to play in the Low and Mid divisions this season.
[spoiler](Alle in low and Thaigrr in mid to be precise)[/spoiler]
Show Content
16:04 - Aoshi |
ETF2L.org: yup, en nightmare speelt bijna niks anders meer dan medic
16:04 - Aoshi |
ETF2L.org: dus diee is ook aant mainclasse
16:05 - Niðstång: hij heeft geen medic gespeeld in prem, en hij heeft één match gesubd in high (want nog geen eens telt want pas bij 3 officials hoor je bij die tier)
16:06 - Aoshi |
ETF2L.org: gedaan me muggenziften tbh
16:07 - Aoshi |
ETF2L.org: dees gesprek gaat naar nergens gaan
16:07 - Niðstång: hij heeft letterlijk geen ervaring als medic in prem/high
16:08 - Niðstång: ik heb ook totaal geen ervaring als spy in prem/high en zelfs mid
16:13 - Aoshi |
ETF2L.org is now Away.
^^basically a dutch converation about lolhl
the converstation was much longer, but Aoshi said that nightmare automatically is a prem medic when he only played spy in prem so he couldn't play with us for fun in open (as medic). even though according to the rules you belong to a tier when you've played at least three officials, and he only subbed once in high as medic.
the point is that he didn't know what to respond, so he just told me to stop nitpicking even when I was correct and he didn't respond anymore
[spoiler]16:04 - Aoshi | ETF2L.org: yup, en nightmare speelt bijna niks anders meer dan medic
16:04 - Aoshi | ETF2L.org: dus diee is ook aant mainclasse
16:05 - Niðstång: hij heeft geen medic gespeeld in prem, en hij heeft één match gesubd in high (want nog geen eens telt want pas bij 3 officials hoor je bij die tier)
16:06 - Aoshi | ETF2L.org: gedaan me muggenziften tbh
16:07 - Aoshi | ETF2L.org: dees gesprek gaat naar nergens gaan
16:07 - Niðstång: hij heeft letterlijk geen ervaring als medic in prem/high
16:08 - Niðstång: ik heb ook totaal geen ervaring als spy in prem/high en zelfs mid
16:13 - Aoshi | ETF2L.org is now Away.[/spoiler]
^^basically a dutch converation about lolhl
the converstation was much longer, but Aoshi said that nightmare automatically is a prem medic when he only played spy in prem so he couldn't play with us for fun in open (as medic). even though according to the rules you belong to a tier when you've played at least three officials, and he only subbed once in high as medic.
the point is that he didn't know what to respond, so he just told me to stop nitpicking even when I was correct and he didn't respond anymore
VILLDJACKS PROPHECY HAS BECOME TRUTH
VILLDJACKS PROPHECY HAS BECOME TRUTH
how could you forget to record a demo when you can have a program do it for you
how could you forget to record a demo when you can have a program do it for you
LstratosHFAdmins are only living up to the low expectation they set at the start of the season by allowing players from last seasons prem winning team to play in the Low and Mid divisions this season.
Show Content
(Alle in low and Thaigrr in mid to be precise)
thaigrr created the team / was rostered but we did not play with him once lol. not even a scrim. If the problem is him being rostered in general fair enough, but we did everything we could to clear it with the admins and make sure if it was ok to have him on demo (and only demo). didn't end up mattering anyway.
personally I don't think it's as big an issue as you make it out to be, but I see where ur coming from.
[quote=LstratosHF]Admins are only living up to the low expectation they set at the start of the season by allowing players from last seasons prem winning team to play in the Low and Mid divisions this season.
[spoiler](Alle in low and Thaigrr in mid to be precise)[/spoiler][/quote]
thaigrr created the team / was rostered but we did not play with him once lol. not even a scrim. If the problem is him being rostered in general fair enough, but we did everything we could to clear it with the admins and make sure if it was ok to have him on demo (and only demo). didn't end up mattering anyway.
personally I don't think it's as big an issue as you make it out to be, but I see where ur coming from.
glasshow could you forget to record a demo when you can have an in game option do it for you
[quote=glass]how could you forget to record a demo when you can have [b]an in game option[/b] do it for you[/quote]
i respect thaigr and i do not think he ever cheated, but if this is actually true he could literally triggerbot throughout the whole playoff process without any punishment
Also whats the point of a 2 month ban in the OFFSEASON
i respect thaigr and i do not think he ever cheated, but if this is actually true he could literally triggerbot throughout the whole playoff process without any punishment
Also whats the point of a 2 month ban in the OFFSEASON
I was honestly surprised that Thaigrr hadn't been banned yet, this definitely explains things
Not doing an individual ban and waiting til the next ban wave post doesn't make any sense, even if Thaigrr WASN'T a prem player... why should anybody be allowed to play in officials for weeks if they violate demo rules and have a pending ban? Thaigrr admits he doesn't have the demos, there's no chance they magically turn up and keep him from getting banned or anything
Bans should occur individually and then just be summarized in the ban wave post, is there a reason to do otherwise?
I was honestly surprised that Thaigrr hadn't been banned yet, this definitely explains things
Not doing an individual ban and waiting til the next ban wave post doesn't make any sense, even if Thaigrr WASN'T a prem player... why should [b]anybody[/b] be allowed to play in officials for weeks if they violate demo rules and have a pending ban? Thaigrr admits he doesn't have the demos, there's no chance they magically turn up and keep him from getting banned or anything
Bans should occur individually and then just be summarized in the ban wave post, is there a reason to do otherwise?
mfw tf.tv posters show more common sense than league admins
mfw tf.tv posters show more common sense than league admins