nah

ban cardinal

goo goo gaa gaa

bring back gpit

sorry but this aint it king

definitely not
every other map is better
should be removed from map pool
probably never gonna download it
actually weird that it was added
can't see ever scrimming it
it needs
to be updated
or removed

https://i.imgur.com/GaNRKrH.png

please

leave

fucking

feedback

thanks

like jesus christ i didn't want to have to post this here but here we are back on that shit eh
i get it could be more people are mad that maps that were playtested extensively were removed for newer maps that haven't been tested enough but god damn the least you can do is type "hi i don't like this, here's why" to the fucking thread after b4nny and phi have constantly asked to provide some feedback

why would we leave maps that are finished to step back and play a beta map in officials

especially now that map votes are a thing and we can voluntarily play the good maps that we enjoy playing and can play well

make it so that ur fps doesn't get fucked at 2nd point please and thanks

whoever wrote this post

ur moms a hoe

i miss coalplant

you people are so dense

"this map blows!"
- has never even downloaded it: check
- has never given it considerable thought: check
- bandwagons opinions: check
- have no idea how to play it, perform poorly, blame the map instead of lack of skill or lack of thought: check

the same people above also say
"why do we never have new maps!?"

while i'll agree that maybe it's too soon to be dropping the map into the highest league available for official play
nothing any of you idiots do or say is in any way constructive

Look the map has way too many flanks, you don't need so many doors to get to mid and last...

shut up brimtinbstone

Map makes sunshine look small. Don't think it can be easily fixed without a total redesign. It has it's good points but it would probably play better in HL than 6s.

Gpit was fucking dreadful as medic. You spend 1/2 the game doing basically nothing.

i just think that esea admins should've polled through esea and not tftv because id bet a lot of money that b4nny subs all voted for their lord and savior's map on the map poll. people are just frustrated that a better map like reckoner, which has been out longer, more familiar, and is better tested did not got into the esea map pool, which is a paid service

Is there really that many blind b4nny fans? I think you're overestimating his fanbase.

I think it's very easy to underestimate how much a lack of experience and comfort on a map affects enjoyment. We haven't had a map pool change in NA in a really long time, and we know every map in the pool very well, they're figured out and we've experienced most of what they have to offer. It's uncomfortable to have constant new situations and no understanding of how mids and pushes play out from previous games.

If some random map like gullywash were introduced now, that same effect would be in play. There would be a lot of criticism, and not much talk of the strengths of the map. However, that's not to say introducing a map straight to the esea pool is a good idea - especially without several weeks' notice to allow teams to scrim the map.

I only played cardinal in a few new map pugs a while back, and thought it seemed pretty fun, but I have no idea whether it's a decent map. I do welcome, though, having a new map to scrim and play on - I'm ready for something new. Hopefully we all start to learn the map, and the map is improved over time as well. For now, the map won't be going away this season, so either ban it or try to learn it and give feedback on it if you're willing to go through the discomfort of playing it with your teams.

Maybe there aren't a lot, but it was likely not a lot of people voted because the thread wasn't pinned, and wasn't up for very long, as well as the fact that there wasn't a consensus on which map to add, lots of esea players voted for reckoner or bagel or another map, but the b4nny subs that do browse tftv all flocked to cardinal.

bring back warmfront

Don't vote in maps that haven't been tested, mapmakers don't get offended, ESEA doesn't go to shit. Easy.

"This map hasn't been tested enough, get it out of my league!"
"I'm not playing this map in league, why would I scrim it, let alone download it ?"

Side note, it will be available on TF2PL whenever it's uploaded by Phi to the Steam workshop.

I bet more people would be down to try it if it had its own week where we all could scrim and get on the same page. The ban system is especially hard on cardinal since you only know your map 2 days in advance and you can only really scrim the map half of your scrim time.

Phi you're my hero.

Maps don't get serious testing outside of leagues. It's a catch 22.

I'm sure there would be serious testing if, say, in one of the etf2l map cups the admins said something like 'one of the maps from this tournament WILL be in the season'. That would probably force people to play the maps and practice them, usually I just ignore these map cups because the maps are not taken further 99% of the time.

I actually think teams would do well to learn cardinal, pick bans can work into a game of chicken with a map like cardinal. "Odds are neither of us want to play cardinal, why would we waste our ban on cardinal when we could ban a different map we hate" Becoming good on cardinal would have benefits if you can get it to slip into a bo1 ban, and especially in a playoff best of 3 where it's likely easier to get it to slip in. It's something you saw a lot in CS every time the map pool shuffles. Teams will expect the other to ban it, but if you want to play it, you can work down to more maps you want to play.

Tbh its pretty disheartening to see Phi say that and for Hyce to reflect that. People like this are putting in serious time and effort and as a competitive community we continue to have this attitude towards change in general, but especially towards map developers. It's been the same thing year after year where everytime there's a new map there's just a flood of negative opinions despite no one having ANYWHERE NEAR adequate playtime to properly judge what needs work on a map.

For the critics, have you ever looked into what's involved in making a full 5cp map? There's so many variables at play that to me it seems impossible to make an accurate judgement on something so complicated from like a weeks worth of play, let alone the one day or one cup that most people are stopping at. Sure there are going to be flaws but take some time to figure them out rather than saying you don't like fundamental aspects of the design (how are map developers supposed to change the the overall DESIGN of a map in between versions??). Any development is an iterative process and will take time.

But go ahead, dismiss every new map that comes along with committed, hard working developers that have proven themselves in the past and are actively seeking feedback. I'm sure one will just pop up to replace gully and process without any input from us.. I just feel bad for the mapmakers..

/rant