The fact that this is still such a ""debated topic"" is just pathetic, its not even laughable

Both these bags of garbage went after a person completely unprovoked and harassed them ON THEIR POST OF HARASSMENT and then didn't even try to make a sincere apology for it? Why do you still want these people in your community? Why are you going so far to protect them and NOT the people that are literally talking about getting harassed?? Stop being fucking cowards and take the trash out because its stinking up the entire room

The amount of casual racism, sexism, transphobia and etc minorities have to deal with in every aspect in their lives is not a fucking joke. You literally have multiple people speaking about their experiences with literal harassment in this community and you're all just sitting there babbling "uuhhbubhuuuuuu nothing we can do??" "have u thought about not? being harassed?" "doing ANYTHING about it would be too complicated uuuuhhhhuhgg" "uuugghur thicker skin???"

Your inactivity and refusal to do anything only shows that you -actually- don't care about the well being of people that put up with absolutely insane amounts of bullshit because they like the game and community THAT much. And now when their patience is at the absolute limit & you have one of the MOST cut and dry examples of harassment you still sit around and do nothing

Every single person that's faced harassment in this community reading this thread WILL remember who's said what in this thread. Who's stood up for them and who's just been a coward and shrugged their shoulders.
They're going to remember it when you post, when you pug, when you're in a match, when you're in discord, when you're at a LAN & whenever you show your face. They're going to start asking themselves "Are these the people that are really my friends, that I want to be associated with? That I should even bother putting up with?"

Outside this community I have to deal with people calling me a nigger all the time. I have to MANUALLY remove comments on my Youtube videos of people calling me a nigger every month. I had a CEO make a room full of people laugh at me when he singled me out and made a "oh black guy big dick" comment at the MLG CSGO event.

THIS is one of the few things you get when you search for my username on Tumblr

https://i.imgur.com/gfzqejg.png

I deal with this shit on a constant basis outside of the community And when the people I thought were my friends. Sat around and laughed their teammate texted them, called his cab driver a nigger, passed the phone around & then stared at me in silence. The last shreds that kept me feeling like I had a place in this community that I was trying to hold tightly onto were shredded up

To anyone that's been putting up with this bullshit, thinking that they just have to tough it out. You don't, and its not worth it. These people won't stand up for you so do it yourself and do whats best for you. A community that's this small and acts like dealing with this is impossible doesn't deserve to exist.

Take out your fucking trash

It's been a while since I've stopped around here but after what I saw on twitter I was 'curious' to see if there was a thread here talking about it and I also wanted to check who's going to i63.

Honestly I'm just speechless with some of the stuff I read here, I can't understand how some people behave this way and write such childish things in a delicate situation; even if it's "the internet" it still reflects on the person you are outside of it.

I hope some of you grow up and one day look back on this and realise your actions. Please think twice and be aware that this could be happening to someone you love and you wouldn't want them to be treated the same way.
It's actually not that hard to be a good person, you should try it out and maybe you'll actually be happier :]

Much love to uberchain and to everyone else that's been supportive. <3

Sorry if parallel lacks precision and seems petty (I upfragged you so as to admit it x)), I could honestly have used many more examples of populism feeding off of exclusion but I thought this one would speak to most people. Point is there is a truly vicious circle that involves cutting people out of public debate even in such circumstances and thus letting (indirectly helping ?) hateful myths develop and I want to get it through because I believe it is a subtle part of the hate on LGBT people issue (as for many other cases like xenophobia/immigration and such).

hahaha yeah cause we shouldn't discuss things people believe are problems in the community discourse is for nerds am i right fellas

there's literally nothing wrong with calling out insensitive comments towards victims of abuse. There's nothing wrong with basic human empathy and literally just not saying anything when you want to be an asshole. Shit talk is one thing, being this dismissive of abuse is another.

We have entered the true post-hope tf2 scene

if tagg's post hasn't convinced you we need a major change in a lot of players' behavior, you should seriously delete TF2 and never come back

humans being social animals that care for each other pushed us from small tribes to civilisation, language, a sense of humour , empathy. And humans taming themselves that way by building a great place of worship and celebration like (gobleke tepe) by teamwork and a common goal and purpose and discovering the benefits of long term planning in communities, etc etc. And apparantly one of the biggest way to get everyone on the same line and connect each other was... playing games with each other with set unwritten roles and society is one big game in a way. you cannot progress for in games if you act like an asshole to your family, back in those days it was ok for the patriarch of the family to smash their siblings skull in if they were truely such big jerks that they brought shame with them.

As opposed to having hostility as your first instinct with other humans like in the small tribal communities ("The attrition rate of numerous close-quarter clashes, which characterize warfare in tribal warrior society, produces casualty rates of up to 60%" from "War Before Civilization: the Myth of the Peaceful Savage" )where you are forced to plunder or eat each other for food, instead of working out arrangments where farmers can help each other as a social safety net.

After laying in bed reading this entire thread and all the views on it. Is it ok for me to say the n-word or is that going against the foundation we are trying to lay?

man girls and there dumb drama! so dramatic when their sexually assaulted!! so bs

I think a lot of people are confusing public actions/statements with what they might joke about in private amongst similar company, which is why there is SOME amount of backlash to the sentiments brought about in this thread. From the looks of it, and I would hope this is the case, no one wants to make people behave in only one way and have only good thoughts or something ridiculous like that, they just want people to show respect and decency in interactions where many people can see what has been said/done. At least that's where I imagine some of the push back comes from because as I was reading this I got a bit agitated by some of the things said on both sides of the argument.

edit, didnt get to finish my POST: But thinking on it further, it's easy to see who's on the 'right' side here. I don't think I'm a shit head towards people outwardly, even if I say SPICY shit in private or joke about le funny epic edgy, and that's all we really need.

I can only hope that this is the wakeup call that the community needs to stop being such a toxic waste pit, but if these fuckers don't learn to clean up their acts then I think it's not too unreasonable to start handing out bans. They can make their own toxic circle jerk league and leave the people that have actual social skills to enjoy playing the game.

I went to B&Q and asked the nice sales assistant if they have any locks and they said yes and showed me all the locks they have but none of them would lock this thread what should I do?

holy cringe

it's actually insane that i havent seen this post ( http://www.teamfortress.tv/16106/rip-tagg#21 ) until today. At the time I was not paying attention to tftv at all, yet i literally heard NOTHING about this. Bdonski streamed a couple days ago and everyone was excited including me.. pretty wild how things slip by

Don't expect every straight white dude to treat you with respect at all if you're not one of them. Be cautious, stick to your own, and don't be surprised when these people think of you as subhuman. You'll grow a thicker skin to harassment or what they call "edgy humor"

(Not saying everyone in this demographic is racist/misogynistic HINT: most are normal kind human beings, just useful advice that is also applicable in real life if you're a minority in a western country)

ur an idiot lol

You're an adorable person sac :D

honestly damn, wish I could've been born white, straight and cis so I could be oh so privileged to be so blind to the world around me and never have to care about what I say

It's never too late to set standards. Make concrete rules then ban the people who break them without question. Right now the rules in every league seem non-existent, incredibly vague, or simply not inforced.

It's hard not to be disappointed and upset at all of this. What a tremendous waste of time and energy defending low effort hatred. Banter is not banter if it is legimately upsetting the people you are interacting with. Same goes for jokes. How is that difficult to understand? Communication isn't a one way street.

I honestly feel like a lot of this could be prevented if people just spoke up when harassment happened, I've been in so many lobbies and pugs where stuff like this happened and if even 1-2 people spoke up for them it would be prevented, don't be scared of what other people think and help better the community.

I don't want to grow thick skin, I just want people to stop calling me a black tranny :(

Unfortunately that will never end so it's just a smarter decision to grow a thicker skin and ignore it

it's easier to just not like, call a person a black tr*nny

This might seem like an easy answer to YOU, but you (and I) don't have to deal with the shit

Some of these harassers follow these people around the internet. From game server to game server.. sometimes they are doxing or otherwise prying into their personal lives, spreading personal information like real (dead) names, home address, family information, etc. They're making specific threats, I mean that's just the tip of the iceberg. You can't always just "ignore it". That's not a solution, at all. That advice is somewhat akin to "Don't get shot" or "Don't be poor" or something.

What, should they just shut down and isolate themselves from the real world, because of those white dudes you mention who like/need to harass?

How about instead of enabling bad behavior on the grounds of "it just happens" we collectively make an effort to punish that behavior and help victims of it feel welcome? If you actually bothered to read uberchain's post you'd know that "grow thicker skin" is something that's said consantly. That's not okay. That's literally justifying awful behavior by writing it off as a joke. It's not a joke when it's making people uncomfortable and legitimately driving talented and skilled people out of the community.

a lot of times speaking up means putting yourself in a situation to receive even more hate

telling ppl to grow thicker is invalidating their feelings and defends discrimination

You're pretty cute as well, Olgha :3

this thread has 370+ posts in less than 1 day

I'm getting sick of reading the same lazy answers and no urge to do anything about the problem from so many of you. Change needs to happen. It's either we get rid of all the shitty people or the shitty people will end up getting rid of all the nice people.

Don't assume you know what maelstrahm has or has not had to deal with. I know his statements are very negative and highly incorrect, but they're based off of his experiences as a minority which are very sad. I hope you'll forgive his incorrect statements but they come from a place of well meaning.