Honestly this is the best approach to enjoy the game as is. I've grown too tired of trying to wade through edgy teenagers and trolls - any game is best enjoyed with friends and it's moreso the case with this one.

Pretty much any callout on toxicity results in threads like these where everyone agrees there is a problem and then goes back to doing nothing about it because you can't really do much besides mass banning people. It's not like you can change their behaviour with nice words, the teenagers need to grow up and the older ones need either therapy or a boot in the ass.

Jeez, when uberchain started this discussion last year (before dashner's name was out) I actually really tried to argue with people - my old hl team, players I interacted with, hell sometimes even randos in pubs. You're not going to be taken seriously even if you go into it with your best intentions because who the hell wants to have serious discussions in a video game?. That's why I like RGL's approach even if there are some rightful concerns about consistency - you're a dick, you get banned, we don't have to teach you how to be a decent fucking person, go learn it yourself.

sums it up perfectly, and I was never as involved publicly as much as others.

Re, the video: I almost walked away from the scene after going to ESEA S15 LAN. I roadtripped to Dallas with my Dad- he went disc golfing at some courses while I hung out in the hotel. Hearing slurs, pointing it out on tftv, and essentially getting gaslighted into believing I made it up was a rough experience for me.

That was before I had done anything for community organizing/recruiting/tournament running. When I ultimately decided to stick around (because the game itself was so freaking perfect and also (iirc) tagg/ some other great folks were very kind to me at that event), I felt the need to hush up about it because I felt like the power dynamic was so different. My goal then was to get into invite.

The further removed I am from the scene, the more I come to the realization that the scene isn't particularly amazing at its core. I just got lucky (for the most part) with the people I had the privilege of spending most of my time with, both in-game teams (like "Bait for Jesus", "The Cattle", and all the variations of my IM teams) and out of game ones (newbie mix family, tf2stadium, etc).

Best wishes if you're reading this thread, Tagg. Your kindness at s15 lan (I have a feeling u don't even remember me being there) was one of the things that kept me around and gave me the opportunity to meet some of my lifelong friends in this game

(sorry for the mini necro. i only check the forums once or twice a week to keep up with what's going on, and this was a video/thread i could really seriously relate to)

"necro edit for censoring a word that i had/have no business writing out"

lmao youre such a pussy

man this community mustve been fucking garbage 6 years ago if posting "dont call the other players the n word at lan" gets you -24 downfrags

maybe it was because it wasn't harb that said it doofus

even if that was because harb wasnt the one that said it the posts defending "calling the other team the n word" as a valid strategy still got a ton of upfrags

-25 wtf

saying the problems not a problem because its a problem in other places is what makes you the huge pussy

m is severely mentally ill, please disregard anything he says

i swear to god pasko only shows up on the threads where he cries abt not being able to say the n word

you hurt me on a emotional level i show up on alllll kindssss of posts please dont say that thank you

definitely wasnt ever advocating using that as a strategy or affirming that it was acceptable but as somebody who played sports in highschool i heard way way more pointed and worse shit

u can engage them or not, but if they see it affects u theyre gonna keep doing it because thats what people who want to win at all costs do

also after 38 seconds of going through ur post history im straight up embarassed that i bothered responding

Nobody ever screamed nigger across the field in highschool basketball, you can shut the fuck up

surely it's regional

arent u like 30

played vs a "christian academy" who had a large portion or the team and student body yelling 'go home n word' at us as we drove off

the shit said on court was much worse

i live in atlanta

ya i just turned 30 glad ur keepin up with me :)

for what its worth the school was in forsyth county which literally is the subject of a documentary on 'the most racist county in america'

but yeah im not making this up.

aight so if we doin the same shit as "the most racist county in america" surely that's not a good sign

i thought tagg quit because ash kept calling him the n word

I'm just replying on the topic of toxicity more so than the contents of the video.

Toxicity isn't a unique trait in TF2 community so I don't think it's very clever to look at it at that specific angle. What can you do honestly? Why is there so much evil in the world that seems to be unstoppable? Why do people choose to be bitter and avenge in a never-ending cycle of suffering rather than forgive and move on? Why are we focusing more on what differentiates us from each other than what we have in common?

I'm not saying we shouldn't do anything, but we're not the first people in the history trying to figure out how to get along better with other people worldwide. Words are just words, we're responsible for our own feelings and whether they get hurt or not. We can try to limit freedom of speech, make having a certain opinion about something or saying something a punishable offence so that someone doesn't get hurt, but where does that get us?

I rarely hear people say they specifically enjoy playing with toxic people or that toxic behavior is approved by anyone in the community. Even if there are toxic circlejerks, well I mean who cares? If toxicity is what unites them, why not leave them suffocating in their negative bubble?

Now while I understand no one working in the production enjoys getting shit, they're still appreciated for doing very valuable work that no one complaining bothers to do. You're still at least trying to actually do something to keep the competitive scene going on while others complain and do nothing. Though in tf2 production crew you don't get paid so you can only wonder what motivates you. If Valve ever supported tf2's competitive scene, I think the people working on the production would be getting some reward on top of the shit they get.

I guess if you work on production you gotta ask yourself "Why am I doing this and is it worth it?" while we as a community might want to think of some sort of way to portray the gratitude toward these people who currently have to look at that question. How?

With all the recent happenings/mentions in the past few years in regards of exposure of certain people in the community, the unfortunate experience that some players were victim to, and the overall "toxicity" (for this post, summing it up as the use of racist, sexist, homophobic slurs, and being a rude jerk) that has been around the community throughout all these years (and some of RGL bans of them), the need to pay attention to these issues and take action only becomes more critical for the community in my opinion.

Tagg is a great guy. I remember some of us playing Xonotic with him and he was having an enjoyable time as we all were, he's a genuinely cool dude from my perspective and it's truly sad he had to go through what he went through in his video (aside from the TF2 weapon balancing). For as long as I could remember and as well as all the other old TF2ers, toxicity has always been around for years and will continue in TF2 or other games. Back then people were "tolerant" of it while not being toxic themselves and there are still many today that are like that. That doesn't mean toxicity is okay though in the end. Yes, it does happen in games like LoL, CSGO, or any other game, but those games also have large playerbases/communities and if they lost players because of toxicity, they'll still always have many players. For the TF2 competitive community specifically, we're not as "huge" as those other games and in my opinion every player counts. It's also especially easy to lose new players that are just trying out comp TF2 if they encounter "toxic" players in their first few games and they start to quit because of it. Same goes for long time players that eventually get tired of it. And if anything, this video from Tagg may unfortunately discourage some players from trying or considering competitive TF2.

As mentioned before and despite all that has been happening in the community, the question still stands, will anything get done about this? Or just like all the other videos/threads/happenings from what the community now knows, will it just be ignored until the next thread? As for what can possibly be done about this, I'm sure people could think of all sorts of ways to work towards making the community a less negative experience. While many are opposed to RGL, they have already taken the initiative a bit in an attempt to try to show that this negative behavior isn't okay. Forum moderators could start cracking down more on certain posts/people. Players could start being less of a jerk and the nice/tolerant ones can start to speak up against those that are being toxic.

Also, a shoutout to all of the nice players/contributors who happen to be reading this that have stayed all this time, put up with the bullshit, and maintaining a more positive experience for the game and other/newer players. While competitive TF2 is a great attraction in terms of ruleset, it's people like you that really make it far more enjoyable and worth staying, and this community would be utterly worse without you guys. Thank you for being awesome.

.

Who even dropped the hard-r at the lan?

The only person who I can imagine being mad at tagg's risky playstyle is b4nny, probably shade, but lansky, cyzer, shrugger? Really strange to hear "the relieve" of tagg's cut from them. He still did ultiduo with b4nny and was on the budsquad with cyzer, so I don't think that he stopped being friends with the whole squad like he said in the video.

But in general I feel for tagg, but as some people said above, gaming communities tend to host a lot of people with immature behavior, hate sparks built by rage, and people that communicate in a very rude and insensible manner, so you have to either deal with them or quit.

Any words on why he deleted the video?

emotionally stable individual

imagine your only contribution to this forum being gaslighting someone you don't know on the subject of people they know but you don't even the slightest

He uploaded a 2nd video later clarifying some stuff concerning TF2, LAN volunteering and the community as a whole still being somewhat positive (he still plays TF2 at times though production just drained him of any desire to be involved in comp again). My guess is he came to regret even bringing up the subject w some backlash and removed both videos. He's probably talked about it on stream in detail if you feel like going through his clips page from the past month or so

he mentioned in the video that it wasnt going to stay up and this thread is a perfect example of why he would delete it

With the other "why I don't upload TF2 anymore" video he did two years ago and what he said on twitter it seems like he's just milking the "quitting TF2" topic for clout.

gunna give that a big nope
and even if he was, he sorta has that right considering what happened.