dude I'm a fuckin pyro main and I'm sitting here complaining with you guys because while I liked the general ideas that valve put forward with the update* all their good work is being ruined by a flamethrower whose balance of skill vs effectiveness is completely fucked. The gibus mouse 1 user who installed 5 minutes ago is just as dangerous as the best pyro in the game.

*dragon's fury is super fun, jetpack actually feels balanced for what it is and flame consistency is a big plus. I also think airblast is okay because most of these pyros are just pushing you into safety now and it takes skill to combo although it should probably be a bit weaker in push force

yeah but how does that result in me getting hit from behind there?

btw the lingering flames bullshit interacts really weirdly with the backburner and results in you getting faceburned sometimes. Clip for example https://clips.twitch.tv/RoundDelightfulEggplantOSsloth

DF is pretty close to balanced because the airblast penalty makes it pretty difficult to protect yourself from damage and the DPS is actually comparable to other flamethrowers, but takes more effort to achieve because if you miss one shot you're already losing out on damage compared to them. The only true advantage compared to the other primaries is slightly bigger range.

Reduce hitbox size a little bit and I'd say the DF is just fine.

Other flamers are absolutely fucked, though. It's not even fun to use at the moment. I'd prefer that they fix the tracking and lingering flames issues rather than just nerfing damage outright, but even after that a bit of a nerf is probably in order.

yeah people gotta chill out a bit. Inappropriate joke, especially in a live cast? Yes. Wanting to bury a dude's career over it? Come on... if someone told me that one in private I would have laughed. He's admitted the mistake and is ready to move on, so hope that everyone else is.

holy moly I didn't know this- will test

edit - yeah it works, can play casual with P-REC enable. Great news, I've been using the Valve system all this time and cluttering my HD with demos from pubs...

win 10. used 7 and 8 before without any real issues

And even if Muma behaved kinda shitty at i58 (if. I wasn't there obviously.), is it so surprising that he's keening up and acting more professional for a bigger and more lucrative esport? It's almost like people change or something.

If they address the flame aim issue with mouse wiggling doing max damage I'd consider pyro fixed. GJ valve.

BTW my hypothesis on them only fixing stair splash on badwater is that they were working on the dragon's fury fix and they came across the bug while testing on badwater. Might be necessary to write valve about the problem being more common than they think

Halloween isn't really a thing in my country so I'll be job hunting, working on a research grant application and playing TF2 like every other day

I tried opening some demos for the first time since the update today and none of them open, I just crash to desktop every time I try. Anyone having the same problem or did my game just decide to break?

EDIT - nevermind, sorry. Seems the problem is with custom huds, I can't join servers either without crashing and other people are reporting the same thing

EDIT 2 - as someone commented in another thread, budhud still works. Just putting it out there

Well I'll link my post from another thread http://www.teamfortress.tv/44200/jungle-inferno-after-action/?page=2#31

basically I like most changes but flame hit detection is insanely forgiving atm and it's making w+m1 really dumb

So when I said that flamethrowers felt even easier to aim than before I was not wrong. See here:
https://youtu.be/aIIgr_qt8mw?t=1m56s

Basically before the update the flamethrower was easy but still required a modicum of tracking to use correctly. Right now the way the hit detection works you can wiggle your mouse around like an idiot and as long as one of the particles is touching the enemy player, you do full damage. It's pretty messed up.

So yeah my wish is to get that fixed. As I commented in the video it can probably be fixed by simply making the "flame cubes" smaller.[*]

[*] edit: not actually true. Seems they'd have to change the hit detection to take into account each individual particle instead of a 12/second check across all particles. Still think a smaller box size would do good in terms of aim requirement to use the flamethrowers. tf_flamethrower_boxsize in a local server allows you to test by yourself. (credit to jediflamaster for all the findings)

idk the amby on its own always felt fair. it was more the combination with the (old) DR that made it a bit too easy to sit out of range and shoot as much as you like without getting punished for it. Since the DR got obliterated they didn't have to be so harsh on a weapon that requires considerable skill too

Warning: pyro main opinions below

• I never expected a generalist pyro. Maybe it would be possible with literally replacing flamethrowers with fire-based lightning guns, and I would enjoy that, but it seemed optimistic to hope for Valve to essentially remove pyro and add a new class in its place. They have a lot of different people to cater to and a lot of tf2 players, especially at the pub level, like pyro as he is now.
  
• Given that, I think most of the changes were good. Airblast feels fair and I've been enjoying learning to use it effectively. Flame range is no longer directly tied to your ping. Reflecting stuff also feels more intuitive.
  
• The one thing that worries me a lot, though, is that pyros right now feel like w+m1 monsters, and the flamethrowers haven't become any harder to aim, if anything they're easier now. I wonder how effective it would be to simply spawn smaller fire particles than the current ones in terms of introducing an aim requirement, because I feel that it's needed. There's also a couple exploitable properties with the new flames that TMP has mentioned but maybe those will still be fixed.
  
• In terms of new weapons, the jetpack is kinda bad but it's probably better that it is. It would be too easy to equip a stock flamethrower and fly all over the map melting faces. I love the dragon's fury but again I think it needs a bit more of an aim requirement to be balanced (the airblast cooldown is a good downside though). The gas passer is horseshit but I don't care too much.
  
• Nerfs and buffs on other classes seem good for the most part except for the dead ringer and ambassador, there was no need to destroy those weapons and I've already talked about it here.

Overall I definitely have some qualms but I'm still enjoying the update. You think it'd be worth it to write Valve some feedback about this?