samifaceI think we should also discuss the fact that so many gamers out there know tf2 as pubs and have no clue 6v6 is even a thing. It's hard to grow support when no one knows we exist.
yup. played tf2 for 4 years prior to finding comp. 900 hours of casual, picked up an extra 1.5k in the year since. only found out because im a loser who browses /r/tf2.
MR_SLINshould we align ourselves with the developers and play the matchmaking game that they’re designing and iterating upon?
I know I literally just said I've only been around for a year, but from what I hear people have already played (or experimented with) formats like what Valve has on the table right now. It's a nice concept, and I personally would be willing to play on a team in a league with Valve rules if there was a guarantee of some meaningful iteration, but a) there is no such guarantee and b) I imagine most people would rather quit and move to other games than wait for Valve to figure out what the fuck it's doing. I don't see why Valve can't stop ignoring what already exists and take clues about what to do from there. For every time you answer questions like
MR_SLINAfter all, how can people expect us as competitive players and volunteers to put so much of our time and energy into a game that the developers don’t even think will succeed as an esport?
there are ten people who aren't reading or won't care. You can't type this problem away at this point unless you're a Valve employee typing up the patch notes we all want to see.
MR_SLINThe fact of the matter is that the developers aren’t convinced that we know best and they’ll want to make progress in their own time with the help of the ENTIRE community
This statement is dripping with irony. They totally want the help of us clueless peons, I'm sure. There's a difference between "we want to re-test these restrictions" and "fuck you guys, our game balance is fine." I'm sure you can guess which statement I feel Valve is coming from. Somehow I don't think they're getting any good data from their matchmaking system at the moment, and I don't see what you think they want us to do to help them get that data. The solutions you have offered center around playing weird formats with the 11 friends we all have on hand who are willing to do so, with no explanation as to why the fuck would Valve care what those results of those games are. I guess you expect everyone to believe Valve reads the forums regularly? Sure, I remember that one time Jill posted. And then ignored what the thread was about with the next update.
On restrictions you go on to say "it’s interesting to at least think about it to yourself and brainstorm as a community," but I don't see what this community hasn't already thought through a thousand times.
MR_SLINCan we get Valve to confirm in writing that they’ll be heavily investing into TF2’s esports scene?
Unlikely. Valve’s approach will likely involve updating matchmaking and quietly gauging community sentiment as they build out new features.
We don't need Valve to confirm monetary support for comp. We need an indication that Valve has noticed the comp scene that does exist. As it is, it's as though they've noticed there are a few semi-famous players that they have talk to here and there since those people take it upon themselves to come and visit, but have no idea why those people are well known and still think comp TF2 is some brand new thing. It's great talking about getting the community together to help Valve make this a thing, but pretty much every single person with the experience and connections to make that happen gave up years ago. They're never coming back, you will never be able to say anything to bring them back, and the people who remain are here to play a game they already think is fun, not to fuck around with with Valve halfheartedly hoping the stupid bullshit they're putting up with will actually make some kind of difference.
HildrethValve can pump money in and they could add Matchmaking to mirror 6v6 format as it stands but people will not play it for the same reason they don't play Leagues / PUGS / ESL / TF2Center (okay for TF2C it's because the admins are cunts) - Just isn't enough interest to bring in sizable numbers
I don't think that's the end-all-be-all of the situation. Seems like every time I talk to a player who doesn't want to play comp, it's either because they're not interested in comp play (in which case they're not playing ANY games competitively) or because 6s isn't "real" TF2. Player interest isn't a concrete thing. REAL Valve support would change that second group in an instant, but as of now that group doesn't care because what Valve has supported is garbage for both newbies and veterans. I don't think most people even want Valve to straight up mirror the format that currently exists, but I do think they want Valve to take it as the basis for developing the game further.