TwiggyHildreth- Tell me the purpose of the whitelist?
I think the goal of the whitelist is to affect the game balance by removing weapons that are either "broken" or overpowered.
Hildreth How do you define an "Overpowered" weapon?
First a website of someone who knows his shit unlike us.
David SirlinThe worst thing you can have in a competitive multiplayer game is a dominant move (or weapon, character, unit, whatever). I don’t mean a move that is merely good, I mean a move that is strictly better than any other you could do, so its very existence reduces the strategy of the game. A dominant move also probably has no real counter, so even if the opponent knows you will do it, there’s not a lot they can do.
So strictly speaking for weapons, an overpowered weapon is a weapon "that is strictly better than any other" weapon "you could use, so its very existence reduces the strategy of the game"
How do you decide if something is "stricly better"? By playtesting. Has weapon X been proven to be run exclusively in 6s or allowed a very specific uncounterable move or strategy to be pulled? If no, then it should not be banned.
Some currently banned weapons agree to this definition : atomizer, crit a cola, vitasaw, quickfix for example.
Interestingly, some beloved weapons agree to this too : gunboats or crossbow for example.
Hildreth How do you define a "Broken weapon".
This one is the easiest. It's a weapon with a mechanic that does not work as intended by the developpers. For example, the pomson when the projectile could become invisible, or taunts that fucked up the hitboxes.
The whole 'fun' element can not be used when you want to objectively balance the game, because fun is by definition subjective. And saying 'a majority of people agree on what fun is therefore we should do X' is just shitting on the rest of the players who think otherwise, so it does the complete opposite of bringing everyone together as the player MR_SLIN claims.
I mean that is fine, he's at least tried to explain it - However he opens a can of worms, if you follow this definition strictly, then the crossbow should be banned, but if that is the case everyone will be in uproar because Medics love the crossbow and in general teams like it because it makes heals/ubers and everything more efficient. But it's vastly superior to any alternatives. The gunboats is a similar proposition, but I don't think should be in the same category because sometimes teams used battalions backup or shotgun to add an extra dynamic to their play.
But therein lies the problems with whitelists - You made your own definition of what an unbalanced weapon is yet don't have the balls to enforce it being banned because it ruins the "subjective" fun of the gamemode. That's the issue, the inconsistencies of whitelists - Some weapons are deemed banned because of this definition (Vitasaw for example) whilst others that fit it perfectly (Crossbow) remain unbanned because it's subjectively seen as "More fun" by people, even though the argument is "Fun is subjective so should not matter".
Either ban all of the unlocks that fit this definition or allow them, no middle ground because it's inconsistent and turns the whitelist into what it is today - A muddle of unlocks decided by a rabble of people wanting to enforce their own views on game balance onto a stagnating, hybrid and chaotic version of TF2 that is different from anything seen elsewhere including the Matchmaking mod - The very thing the developers tried to introduce to support the competitive community.
And the idea that MR Slin knows his shit more than any other person is laughable, he's a person with views and opinions like everyone else, difference is he uses his social media platform to launch it and has spread his ideas to a point where leagues listen to him. Don't get me wrong I'd rather they listened to him over some of these idiots I see posting here, but nobody is special - He just has more a direction he wants to take the game - Good for him.