Huntsman, and all of these other "annoying but rare" weapons are rare because they're a bad choice to run.

Pomson is the best choice to run, but it's rare because a specific set of circumstances are required for it to do anything useful. You don't sacrifice anything to run it.

I don't know whether that is necessarily true trash, if there is a weapon that's obviously broken or OP then it should be banned until Valve fix it. Hopefully in the future we'll have a relationship with valve that allows us to highlight broken weapons and get them fixed quickly like the R8 etc, but if we don't or they're slow then there's no reason why we should have a 100% open whitelist without applying thought to it.

deetr, you make a good point about reducing the skill ceiling and compromising integrity of the competition for more players. The reason we all love competitive TF2 is because the competition relies on how well you can execute fights, play off your advantages and shore up your defenses. It is more similar to CS:GO than any other game in that regard, the meta revolves around a level of mechanical skill and decision-making, rather than running unlocks to counter other unlocks or running wacky team compositions. Nobody is currently enjoying competitive TF2 because of unlock cheese strats, or triple spy to mid strats, and even the occasional interesting unlock / offclass usage is more of the icing on top than what makes 6v6 such an amazing game for those of us here.

However your argument is falling down when you make these sweeping claims that all of the weapons we currently have banned are shit and would ruin the game as you know it. I highly doubt you've done the testing required to see whether gunslinger post-nerf would actually create this change where you'd want to quit the game. It's not half as bad as you think, but your instant attitude is to reject the weapons rather than keep an open mind.

We have, as clockwork said, a great opportunity to take 6s and compromise the game we've created in order to make it much larger. Let's not kid ourselves, 6s wasn't going anywhere before matchmaking. We were stagnating in terms of size, popularity, sponsorship and interest, despite being a game that lots of people here loved to play and which has great merits.

MM has provided the game a new breath of life, but the cost will be compromising the game we've lovingly created for one which will appeal to more people. In my opinion it's about having a good idea of what we think is crucial to competitive TF2 and should not be altered, and what we can afford to change and see how it works out. Whitelists (given that Valve will be working to balance them) are what I'm most prepared to change quite frankly.

I have tested it and I don't know wtf you're on about.

Try using words to describe what you mean rather than just stating again and again that "it's impossible". What's impossible?

Hitting a medic? Clearly not impossible, medics get hit all the time by shit.

Reducing uber from that range? Yes, this is impossible from a certain range but it's more than possible to reduce uber % from within snake last.

Doing a significant amount of uber denial without dying? Potentially impossible, but I can't see how you can have rigorously tested that since it's so variable.

You've literally not stated what part you find impossible.

In what way is it impossible to ever hit the medic with pomson if he is trying to milk through a choke into last?

Say he's pushing left side (from attackers perspective) into snake last. He's easily open to three or four shots as he tries to walk in without forcing. Yeah it's unlikely he'll get hit because they're slow and might get eaten by somebody else but it definitely isn't impossible if you're just spamming him constantly.

lmao gotta test stuff

I like the idea of having two koth maps in the pool. Since we're moving away from ETF2L being the only competition in EU we can have different map pools for different events too. So it's not like removing sunshine / some other map for coalplant would be irreversible, or even affect other cups/LANs.

A reverse nipple would be cool to try out, as you have to commit really hard to getting the cap once you frag.

I like this map already but it does feel like a clone of baloo, there's nothing fundamentally different. Changing the cap point so it's not just a nipple (and even blitzo's idea only makes it a nipple that the med can get on) would be a good idea.

Make some crazy changes, try a load of different cap point ideas, because that is what will define your map. And we desperately need a good 3rd ultiduo map for tournaments etc.

We've been playing with the vaccinator for three seasons now and it was allowed at i55. A lot of strategies have been sttempted in top teams but it's just not good enough right now even in specific situations. The pretty much only time you'll see it used currently is defending against kritz with big disadvantage, or more rarely vs big uber disadvantage. The justification being at least you have something when they push. It ends up being very quickly countered by combining damage types, and is less effective than you might imagine.

this whole cup is full of maps people don't want to play

there's more to it than raw popularity

Teams will always be worse on defence on new maps of any format. It requires you to know a strategy and have some co-ordination, whereas aggression can always be synced up on the fly. This is because nobody puts any preparation into a tournament like this on any of the new maps and just plays a scrimmy style (for good reason, because why bother putting the effort in).

http://etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-32433/

The ETF2L forums are dead and since this whitelist will provide a large contributing factor towards i58 etc, it requires more input than this.

There's currently a cup using this whitelist (albeit running weird maps too so it's harder to see the effect) to test this.

Please only comment on the weapons that are being considered THIS season. I know there are weapons allowed in eu but not na and you might think those are stupid, but the major points of discussion should revolve around these new additions.

What on earth do you mean that granary wasn't figured out until recently?

I think you're totally confusing advances in how the game is played with how the map is played.

LEGO & top5 Rocket are not in there either, both should be Premiership teams in s23.

sick fargs alfa