CaptainZidgelsageausI can't really visualize turbine still being called turbine with how much you would have to change to make it a good enough map for competitive play.
Ok but hypothetically what would those changes be?
Never played/watched comp turbine when it was played in EU but I've played 1100 hours on that terrible map so I think I somewhat have a sense of what's wrong with parts of the map.
Spawn:
- 2 easy to lock down exits. 1 uber can lock an entire team in spawn. A sniper can watch both exits from shutter stairs
Spawn area and corridor which both exits lead to would need a big rework to block the sightlines and make leaving spawn not a death trap
Spawn stairs:
- Stairs leading to flag room might seem like a good idea on paper to give the defending team high ground but it actually just locks the defenders in spawn because the stairs funnel the team and make it super easy to spam if an enemy combo with uber is in flag room
- Stairs leading to shutter are less of an issue compared to map room but still feel terrible for similar reasons except you're pushing against a sticky trap outside shutter so gl with that
Suggestion for both spawn and spawn stairs: remove the stairs completely. Put spawn at the same level as flag room. Rework the spawn area completely. Needs more exits, needs more space, needs to not be a death trap
Flag room:
- Probably the least problematic area on the entire map but also it's a bunch of flat ground with very minor elevation so there's not much good to say about it either. Probably the only part of the map that isn't in a need for a major rework
- The corridor leading from mid to flag room is an issue though. Sniper sightline from medium hp to spawn stairs
Suggestion for flag room and corridor: maybe a bit more elevation around spawn room (higher flag, slightly lower ground around flag? idk) or some props would help
Block sightline from corridor to spawn stairs. Maybe make the corridor curve around to the left. I'd be against removing an entrance because that'd only leave the teams with 1 entrance from corridor. Needs to be moved around more
Vents:
Dear god this is so bad.
Suggestion for vents: needs to be an actual area where things can happen. Would mean widening the entire map so there's room to move around and stuff. same style as mid-flag room corridor maybe. Could be interesting if designed well. Can potentially also solve the shutter issue
Shutter:
- A single demoman can sit on medium pack and lock down the vents-mid exit + shutter with traps
"suggestion": this all depends about how spawn area and vents would be changed. Could add some glass to the sides to spot a demo if really needed or remove shutter. Would prioritize spawn/vent changes and then decide for shutter.
(Might continue this tomorrow if people actually agree on this. Have to leave literally right now to something)
still to do:
-bats
-mid (turbines, crates)
-mid steel stairs
edit: Here I am
Bats: Might not need any changes depending on what you change with vents and mid. Pretty ridiculous sniper sightlines but then again no matter how much you'd change mid there'd still be at least 5 better spots to have your sniper stand
Turbines and crates: I actually like the turbines as a prop. Though having 3 of them might not be needed. What you'd change about those depends on if you're making it koth/cp or keeping ctf. If there's be a cp you'd probably remove the middle one. I'd rather have there be only 1 in the middle for ctf.
This would leave the sightlines from corridor to corridor quite open but that's where the crates come into play. The crates aren't the absolute worst but it's not good map design.
I'd like to think people prefer ground elevation changing instead of having a bunch of flat ground and putting a bunch of props on it (It's always been my theory that's a big reason why granary is so disliked).
Steel stairs: Snipers can shoot through it. Not that big of an issue though imo. Could look into the turbine_pro maps that exist already. They add an extra connector from steel stairs to corridor which I think is pretty nice.
Suggestion for mid: Make mid bigger, mess around with the props. Add some if needed. Mess around with the elevation (if koth/cp slightly elevated cp?) I'd personally try to move the crates diagonally to block the sightlines between the 2 corridors completely and maybe mess with the amount of turbines and their placement. This is just a first idea I had though. I have no clue if that'd be an improvement but it'd be a start if you want to find something that is. Maybe add turbine_pro connector from corridor hp to steel stairs.
Also maybe add some tiny ammo packs at mid. For pub turbine it'd be terrible because of engineers but in a comp setting a sentry at mid won't be effective