I'm too old for this things then :(

He's supa good indeed, but when you want to use FaN you better not miss a single shot like him, cause most of the time if you do you're fucked; and shortstop has exactly the same drawbacks. Why would people not trolling give up the room for error given by scattergun?

I just like to discuss gameplay things but apparently this is not the right forum to do so

downfragging when i genuinely try to answer the topic smh

Is there only memes left over here?

And so what? do you find it normal that only scout does not have to carefully count his shots when he fires? You can make plays out of the number of rockets fired by soldiers but can you make some out of the number of scattergun shots fired? No because its a weapon that does not promote the slightest glimpse of ammo management

Like hey I'm playing demoman but my pipes dont reload faster as my stickies, but pipes are my primary weapon on the hud WHY IS THAT SO I WONDER

Because it's by far the best weapon.
BFB is a joke weapon like soda popper and back scatter.

Only FaN and shortstop could be good alternatives.
FaN because of the third jump, shortstop because of theoretical better mid range damage

However both FaN and shortstop have SHIT reload times (shortstop even bugs and reload only 1 shot sometimes like needles) whereas scattergun reloads very quickly. It also shoots more which leaves more room for error.

If scattergun needed something, it would have to do with its reload. I've always found idiotic that scattergun's first shot reloads twice as quick as shotgun's first shot.

too bad you didn't ask setsul before buying the laptop :/

But anyway, couldnt you get away with some kind of mini itx system + 1 monitor at each of your places (i'm assuming you're a college student?)

@setsul do you know any computer monitor made with a laptop screen but hookable to regular computers?(so that it can be folded and transported easily)?

Only zoob knows how it works and logs.tf is not open source (serveme isn't either) It'd be interesting to know why from zoob/arie (i can't find an answer on either websites)

TF2 turns into an american sport with stats and stuff, BUT there is still no damage dealt vs damage taken difference. I think it's a different one than damage dealt per health point received. Truly good players deal damage without taking lots and it is not clear who is the best in that regard without that stat.

scout maps everywhere, process layout used twice in a small map pool, and still no incentive to play more koth maps as even lan teams can just veto it instead of learning it, great times indeed

sage the chimney thing allows you to go from the building on the left to the ground without fall damage so it's not silly

http://i.imgur.com/o9idAhu.jpg

Also that balcony is a good feature because defenders can't access it by foot; it's like the only zone that favors attackers for standing there

what game does clawz come from?

paging sage

Ok played it again :

I didn't get to play on the pavilion version : you made your topic here 2 days ago and changed it 1 day ago then sage made lobbies with a9.
What was interesting with the pavilion is that it's possible to drop down inside it and refuse a bad fight with a scout on top.
Also if the position is strong it creates an interesting dynamic : soldier can reach pavilion first and slam scout on the ground ; if scout gets up there he slams soldier; demoman can deal with both classes on the high ground. It's more bland with the nipple imo.

I question both the small and the big shack. If you're concerned about scouts then these things are the culprits as scout can just go anywhere without touching the ground.
The small shack is very strong for scouts and quite bad for soldiers (you're going to hit 40 damage rockets from this far)
The big shack makes it super hard for demo to push mid shutter side : he can just be fucked from anywhere by both scouts and soldiers.

Some architectural changes would be needed for mid as for a space this big throwing shacks and rocks and props won't do it IMO. I'm sure you have cool ideas.

Besides, I found defending second to be quite obnoxious : from the battlements only 1 exit (shutter) is easily reacheable and attackers have a really easy time chasing players there. Very frustrating. I suggest adding some kind of safe escape route from battlements.

Last pipe is VERY strong. I agree with sage about one of the spawn exits being useless (but i liked the shape of your spawn room, interesting design for sure, maybe reuse it in the future).

I disagree about "best way to push last seems to be the center". Shutter door is so close to the spawn and there is NO vision at all for defenders to know which way the push is coming. Double scout uber from there buys you all the room you need. So either defenders run a pyro or a sentry to watch this either they lose instantly.

I'll try to play it more see if my impressions are confirmed.

I think that you should keep the pavilion and instead remove the weird shacks stolen from sunshine. It's "dead highground" near a choke point to me. having a spire like fight for the pavilion (which looks much cooler than the nipple) is just more interesting.

for the love of me why do you put a pipe above last point if it's to block it's access? The whole shape of the "thing" above the last is extremely obnoxious. make it so one can go exactly where it looks like it can go and dont use invisible clipping

besides that i can't find obvious flaws with your last. the 3 access routes feel wide enough. Maybe this defensive position would be too strong? I can't see anything wrong with using a sniper from here :

http://i.imgur.com/rFV4NQW.jpg

Second looks very defendable from this highground :

http://i.imgur.com/3M2jpEa.jpg

Overall second defenders are not encouraged to move, regardless of what route the attackers will choose the defenders can defend without moving, either from aforementioned highground either with combo there :

http://i.imgur.com/ruB7Nr9.jpg

Or either from above the point itself.

Besides the only way for attackers to actually flank is spotted years before the flanker can do anything :

http://i.imgur.com/v1cbrMU.jpg

And the whole flank route is at an horrid height disadvantage which makes it very easy for one soldier to shut it down.

I like that your chokes promote gimmicky jumps all the way to defenders battlements but so far that is the only edge attackers have because once they get through any of your choke points (except one) they find themselves at a height disadvantage.

Also second defenders can't push middle because 2 ways are horrible to push from (big height disadv) and one is isolated.

You need to have clear height differences between chokepoints and mid or chokepoints and second in order to favor one team. I advise favor second holders because mid holders already have the forward spawns they can play with.

For example, make it so one of these white buildings is accessible from the second, in order to give a free higher-than-the-cp- highground to ease pushing to mid :

http://i.imgur.com/6zDxYis.jpg

This part of the map could also go downhill:

http://i.imgur.com/0ibF2pw.jpg

Making it so would mitigate the defenders highground advantage by standing atop second point.

To sum up, i think that you need to introduce more height differences to favor dry pushes between your mid and second point. The points themselves do not feel bad at all.