*DEAD* DrJones [⇄] : YEEHAA ISNT A CHEATER
DrJones [⇄] : HE IS JUST REALLY FUCKING GOOD AT SNIPER
DrJones [⇄] : GEEZ MAN
*DEAD* DrJones [⇄] : I mean, hes prob just a highlander god
DrJones [⇄] : but why is he playing casual
DrJones [⇄] : like
DrJones [⇄] : no offense
*DEAD* DrJones [⇄] : but just stay with highlander
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Kingston hyperx cloud is pretty good and relatively cheap iirc
Ah yes, the 'post yaynos mix' thread.
4812622CrayonNot sure if this has been mentioned but I think banning the crossbow increases the medic skill ceiling by putting more of a focus on the distribution of heals in fights.
Banning pipes increases the skill ceiling by putting more of a focus on aiming stickies.
If you go down this line you will eventually ban all but one thing so you can focus on that one thing, since having less options directly correlates with increasing the skill ceiling.
i dont think thats how it works
http://etf2l.org/2017/05/04/announcing-season-27/
Added a new div (fresh) after the success of the fresh meat cup.
Thoughts?
don't turn this into an overwatch thread please it's already bad enough
4812622YeeHawWho said he was taking 1v1s lol?
"All the damage you do is irrelevant as you [ie the roamer] have to actually kill the guy"
This is the reason people say that the crossbow would increase the pace of the game. It's harder to stabilise your team's health after you lose a point, which means teams can use momentum to play more aggresively.
I have never argued against this, but it does counter OP's point that roamer is especially fucked over by the Crossbow.
People still used crossbow when the scout speed nerf was not implemented. Do you really think people will use the overdose instead of crossbow lol? It hasn't been used for many years.
Okay, the Overdose thing is irrelevant.
I am perfectly fine with nobody ever using Syringe Guns because they're boring as hell. They need to have some sort of Uber or healing mechanic or nobody will ever use them over the Crossbow because you're punished every time you take them out.
I guess what I meant was that the weakness of the Crossbow was, in large part, negated by the Scout speed change, and while needles wouldn't become meta, the crossbow would not be as overpowered.
Firstly, ridiculous false equivalence. 6v6 as it is now with 1 change in the whitelist is a vastly different change from 5 scouts + 1 med. Secondly, 99% of crossbows are just on players standing still waiting for an arrow after they tanked damage from choke. The number of times a skillful crossbow shot happens in a map is the same as the number of times a skillful play with needles happens.
It was never meant to be equivalent. The goal of the example is to show that "making the game fast" isn't the end goal of balance, the goal is creating something entertaining to play, and making the game faster is one metric of fun gameplay. another is skill-indexing. i cannot think of any role in a competitive video game that is so low skill, high reward as medic.
I have no idea where you're getting this 99% metric. Have you never had a Soldier or Demo to half health in a team fight? Do you actually go for 1 difficult shot (defined as arrowing someone who is not walking in a straight line or standing still) out of 100 arrows? Because that's...ridiculously low.
Also, why do you think that only max rampup crossbows are difficult? mid- and close-range arrows take just as much skill.
but it doesn't outweigh the disadvantages of the crossbow (anoying to play against (if someone gets arrowed in a 1v1 or similar situation),
stickies are annoying when i drop to a trap. scattergun is annoying when i get 2shot by 185 scouts. everything that isn't severely underpowered can be construed as annoying.
slows the game down and makes it hard/impossible to accurately track ubers and push off small advantages).
bolded statements are redundant.
it is more difficult to track uber when arrows can build, but it is possible. if nothing is happening, their combo isn't peeking a choke while getting tanked, they're probably arrow building. arrow building has a finite maximum rate just like normal building.
i grant you that it is harder to push off of damage advantage. it is, admittedly, a weakness of giving Medic the ability to hit high reward shots that actually take some measure of skill. Unfortunately, I don't gain as much fun pushing off of damage as I want to kill myself at the thought of being forced to play Medic without the Crossbow.
At the end of the day, all of this is meaningless if you have not tried out the change in a serious scrim environment. I have, and it enabled us to push off damage and caused the game to be far less stalematey. BAN.
Played it for half a week of scrims when loadouts were broken. Outside of the 15 seconds per scrim I ran at people with needles, it was fucking terrible.
Allow.
Fair enough. I play scout so I don't see it from a medic's perspective, but I don't agree that the game being slower is worth the game being less fun for the med. 10/12 people's fun > 2/12 people's fun.
4812622Roamer class even more useless
-All the damage you do is irrelevant as you have to actually kill the guy, otherwise he will be arrowed up again.
Stop taking 1v1s as roamer. It was a losing strategy with or without the crossbow. If you commit with your team, your damage will matter. Roamer benefits most from the Crossbow because you don't have to scrounge for health kits.
Who said he was taking 1v1s lol?
4812622Also, 0% heal door bitch roamer was at least as common, and probably more common, before the crossbow had passive reload (look at tagg and aporia's heals per minute, http://www.vanillatf2.org/2013/08/i49-by-the-numbers/). The crossbow allows the roamer to posture more aggressively, but if the crossbow didn't exist, you would be forced to avoid damage in stalemates so you'd have enough health to push with your team.
This is the reason people say that the crossbow would increase the pace of the game. It's harder to stabilise your team's health after you lose a point, which means teams can use momentum to play more aggresively.
4812622Its like the direct hit
-Seriously, it does 1 000 000 damage at any range and it takes no skill to aim.
The Crossbow's weakness has always been that it is absolute ass at fighting people up close compared to needles. Honestly, it'd be a big nerf to Crossbow if there was a plugin that removed Medic speed when healing Scouts, which makes the Overdose speed buff irrelevant and makes it pointless to fight people with Crossbow when you can just run away faster than they can catch up.
People still used crossbow when the scout speed nerf was not implemented. Do you really think people will use the overdose instead of crossbow lol? It hasn't been used for many years.
4812622It makes the game slower
-no longer in or out, now it's: "I'm in, nevermind I got denied, let me wait 2 sec so I can be arrowed and then I can go back in"
-Pushing of damage can no longer be done.
You know what would make the game faster? If we played 5 Scout 1 Medic, or better yet, 3v3 Scouts only.
A faster game is not always better or more fun. What you fail to realize is that playing Medic without the Crossbow is the most mind-numbingly, skull-crushingly boring thing you could possibly do in TF2, including HL Heavy, prophunt, endif, and Rancho Relaxo-ing in spawn for hours on end on a 32 man Badwater server. It does not take brainpower to heal Scouts or follow around your pocket and M2 when he tells you to. Backpedaling while spamming needles is similarly braindead, and the times where "+fwd with needles" is optimal is maybe, MAYBE once a game. Hitting crossbows, surfing rockets, and playing on a better team than you deserve from your DM are the three things that are remotely entertaining about Medic. I grant you that it builds too fast with no telegraph, I grant you that it is harder to push off of damage, I grant you that it should be nerfed. I am still firmly of the belief that banning it would be a terrible, terrible mistake. Removing the last vestige of entertainment to be had from playing Medic to make the game marginally faster is not worth it.
Firstly, ridiculous false equivalence. 6v6 as it is now with 1 change in the whitelist is a vastly different change from 5 scouts + 1 med. Secondly, 99% of crossbows are just on players standing still waiting for an arrow after they tanked damage from choke. The number of times a skillful crossbow shot happens in a map is the same as the number of times a skillful play with needles happens. The one time a map that a crossbow shot is actually aimed is nice (for the medic), but it doesn't outweigh the disadvantages of the crossbow (anoying to play against (if someone gets arrowed in a 1v1 or similar situation), slows the game down and makes it hard/impossible to accurately track ubers and push off small advantages).
Ultimately, the crossbow takes more than it gives to the game. Would you make these same arguments if the crossbow wasn't in the game and was just an idea for a weapon? Would you want such a weapon in the game?
At the end of the day, all of this is meaningless if you have not tried out the change in a serious scrim environment. I have, and it enabled us to push off damage and caused the game to be far less stalematey. BAN.
the crossbow makes the game worse and i think the game would be better and more fast paced without it, but it's been unbanned for so many seasons now that people are used to it, and don't want to make the jump after it is banned. so it will probably stay unbanned.
camperZestywatch some of the mix^ i52 games and you'll see seagull carryingany suggestions? i could kill some time
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cfyXz7PZZEY
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xh1kZt6cEVg