feast for crows was the worst one 3:
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conductorI didn't even realize there was a storm until I saw this thread earlier
too busy choking in my first match ^__^
...for some reason i thought BlackOut only casted in Russian.
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
eXtineparking the bus is already sometimes an issue. I'd rather have shorter games overall, for all formats.
TBH when I look to post-produce cast games, if they're 45 mins + I look for a different game. Just too long to stay completely focused.
...is it? When's the last time an ESEA match was decided by the map timer?
I couldn't cast for a whole 60 seconds so I can't comment on the latter part, but I know that I can watch an hour of TF2 without getting bored, and I'm not sure casts are supposed to cater towards the watchers that get bored easily.
eXtine#2 why yes, this is similar to the European system. Don't take it as a coincidence and pat yourself on the back for that one.
Back for the original pugna draft cup we used a format I devised in which it was two 30 min maps and the overall winner was devised by the aggregate result not the aggregate score. If team A wins map 1, then for map 2 they need either a draw or a win to take the match. If team B wins map 2, then the aggregate is equal and the teams need to have an overtime period. Overtime is played on map 2 as an additional 15 minute period. If that 15 minute period is a draw, then a sudden death OT round, again on Map 2 takes place.
Thoughts?
If the clock is a factor, then parking the bus will always an issue.
I think it's better than ETF2L rules though.
Whoopee_CushionIt seems like this thread has devolved into a pyro debate; mostly composed of people who play pyro....
maybe i'm missing the point here but how are people who don't play pyro supposed to talk about the pyro
IrukSNAFU4812622short circuit is legit for pushing the cart, that's what dave+ did on ts and it worked really well, also fucks kritz stickies on koth maps
While it may be useful there, a Wrangled Mini is likely 10x better. Especially since the main cart pushers will usually be Scout, Engineer and Sniper when the combo is away.
I'm mainly thinking of the defensive level 3 though. Wrangler is unarguably superior because not only can you sponge the damage without losing the sentry, but you can fire back - no damage drop off and aim assist included.
I agree that Wrangler + wrenches are the only way to go when defending, but I'm not so sure about the first part. While Wrangled Mini-Sentries are bullshit, the cart's path for most PL maps is at least 80% on the low ground where sightlines are limited, so it's not AS good, I feel like you have to go somewhere else to build an ideal Wrangling Mini-Sentry and often stay there to see targets, which diverts your attention, where you can just drop them in front of the cart and SC away with the infinite cart metal.
EIther way, I think the Short Circuit doesn't need a buff, it's a situational unlock, but it definitely has use, if the extent of its worth is debatable. Buff Engie Pistol.
and honestly do you really want the engineer constantly deleting stickies to be a thing
IrukSNAFULooking at the Google Doc we have so far, I feel the Short Circuit is similar to the Quick-Fix/Vaccinator in that when compared to other options (read: the Wrangler) it's simply so situational and weak there's no reason to use it. It's not a bad weapon, and it's a pretty good concept actually, but there is no reason to even consider it when you can have the Wrangler block 66% of all incoming damage sources and give you essentially endless range, and aim-assisted targeting. Why even bother trying to delete a few projectiles from existence when you can sponge them and repair once it's safe?
short circuit is legit for pushing the cart, that's what dave+ did on ts and it worked really well, also fucks kritz stickies on koth maps
AllealCan you imagine walking an invisible Pyro into an unsuspecting combo?
sounds a good deal like bullshit
flamethrower damage is a cone, which means it does much less at the tip (which is under 400 HU)
and beyond that, you have nothing but reflects (which rely on people feeding you projectiles) and 30 damage flare guns (splashless projectiles) + afterburn
ignoring demo and sniper, scouts heavies and mini-sentries all wreck you hard before you can get into range and even the spy can pistol you down quite a bit before you can get to him, ignoring spycicle and dr and ambassador (also i heard ugc just unbanned enforcer?)
it is true that pyros can deny jumpers from high ground
until you kill the pyro because he can do jack shit from range
also it seems like you're talking about hypothetical god-pyros that can sight-reflect everything and not many of those play highlander
causeMoving on, Soldier secondaries need to be seriously looked at. There is no reason ever to use anything outside of the shotgun or gunboats, and even sometimes not even the shotgun (in highlander). Every other secondary needs a buff to them to compete. Why use any of the banner secondaries when you can jump more? The bison is a pretty powerful weapon too, but the speed of it is what gimps it to not being used over the shotgun.
The Concheror is garbage but the Backup and Banner are pretty legit.
Some maps are really awful for jumping but great for spamming and you can get a banner fairly easily, like, uh, Barnblitz.
If you pocket your Medic you can get a backup and then milk the shit out of an uber with damage resistance and headshot (+ kritz) immunity.
sherman_gluckpyro does not need to be buffed, its already easy to play (look at the players who "main" pyro and watch them try to aim on another class). The degreaser and reserve shooter and the pyro airblast update have already compressed the skill ceiling enough.
don't buff pyro, buff the other unlocks so they're equally as useful as deg+axe or jockey
go back to the pre pyro buff regarding airblast, increase the time between airblasts and remove the minicrit reflect. pyros are able to do more damgage with soldier rockets and demo pipes than soldiers and demo can do.
because they can't shoot the rockets and pipes unlike soldiers and demos
also i'm not sure about this but... does landing a point blank rocket reflect do half the damage to a pyro than it would a soldier hitting a rocket at point blank?
pyros don't have resistance to their own reflects, but you can't take mini-crit damage from yourself
on a related note pyros are lighter than soldiers and demos and will take a larger amount of knockback
BY THE WAY i used to main pyro but i don't anymore
even though it's still my most played class
i swear
LorgRuskeydooSticky Launcher and Minigun come to mind. They are so much better than any other option for their class that virtually nothing else gets played. That sounds like a pretty good definition of 'overpowered' right?
Coincidentally demo and heavy are also two of the most play defining classes in HL. If Valve wants class balance (each class effects the flow of play equally) then this might be a good place to start?
Ruskey hit this on the head.
Sticks and standard mini-gun are so good that unlocks are not "side-grades" ... they are in fact, not that in the slightest. They are downgrades. Does this mean it's necessary to nerf them, or buff the other weapons in the same category? Who knows.
I think the sticky launcher is likely the strongest weapon in game (situational damage and all around flexibility) and could use a little bit of a nudge down, not a ton, just a slight nudge. Whether that's in splash range, base damage, fall off, arm time, etc. I don't think it's the number of sticks that can be deployed that makes it such a strong weapon... but I think the initial damage, splash/fall off, and arm time play a bigger part as to why it's so good.
Pipes do a ton of damage, too, but the sticks are really the reason why demo is the super-man class of TF2.
Will this change the current meta for demo? Yup. Any change in this system will require adjustments.
The problem with Demoman is that his unlocks are really annoying.
If Scottish Resistance was a sidegrade to the Stock, that means it would concentrate all of the stock's awesome power into creating stalemates.
That's scary. And that isn't fun.
Meanwhile the shields turn him into a pick class. And pick classes are just inherently not as good when there are Pyros with the combo and when you can just kill people with traps. And also with airbursting.
Sticky Jumper is fine. It's not equal to the stock, but it's a great situational picking tool that is better than the Sticky Launcher in certain situations because of Caber oneshotting and the hugest mobility in the game short of maybe the Bazooka, which is a stupid weapon.
Speaking of the Caber though, Demoman having a one-time oneshot melee is kind of bullshit. His weakness is CQC and forcing a trade like that isn't very fair. Maybe equipping Sticky Jumper makes your melee weapons explode like the Caber, and make the Caber a lot weaker or something. Or just make the Caber the Demoman Market Gardener?
Prower4812622yeah the degreaser outclasses the hell out of the other flamethrowers (except maybe phlog?)
but...it's not overpowered
stock and backburner are just way inferior, buff them
stock shouldn't always be the template for balance, see melee weapons and overdose
speaking of that, buff stock syringe and blutsauger too? in the same vein as the degreaser, the overdose is a great unlock and an upgrad, and nobody uses any other syringe gun
No amount of buffs are going to make people want to use the stock flamethrower. The quickswitch is too much to give up.
A. buff flamethrower range + particle speed [+ damage?]
B. as it stands, you must wait the full .75 seconds after airblasting to fire your flamethrower, halve this to .375 seconds but keep the time between airblasts at .75
C. move jockey set bonus to powerjack
the key to balancing the stock flamethrower is to make it good enough that it can stand on its own
degreaser would still be powerful for burst damage + range + freedom to quickswitch back to airblast
i haven't heard any idea how to fix the backburner though, an interesting idea was to use a taunt to cloak and uncloak, cnd-style (no pyro yelling), but you can't move until you uncloak, not enough on its own but might maybe work with those up there changes (maybe minus B) plus 135 backcrit angle (currently it's 90, vs the spy's 180, and it's kinda hard to get good hit detection) and maybe 40 ammo airblasts idk, the problem is that ambushing as a pyro is really gimmicky compared to the consistency of playing defensively around your team, which the backburner isn't very good at because it has so few airblasts, the backburner, to be useful, needs adequate, but inferior defensive power, plus it needs to be significantly better at ambushing than it is
Giraffe#92
The degreaser and overdose are utility weapons that serve a purpose other than dealing damage, and since the pyro and medics role doesn't revolve around dealing damage, the degreaser and overdose are more useful. If your goal as a pyro or medic is to deal more damage then the stock (flamethrower and needles) or the alternative (backburner and blutsauger) would be a more viable choice. One is only "better" than the other because of how the metagame and role of the pyro and medic has evolved.
fair point about overdose but
i am PRETTY sure stockthrower pyros are a lot worse at killing things than the degreaser, range and quickswitch to reflects is really, really good
the extra damage on the flamethrower is useful for w+m1ing into clumped-up groups that don't include other pyros with airblast, a situation that is a lot rarer than just finding a guy and trying to kill him, which the degreaser is a lot better at, and even when you fight combo vs combo they rarely stay close enough and collinear enough that you can use the penetration to hit multiple targets
i'd say buff the syringe gun by making it +1 hp on hit and give the blutsauger +1 regen, and maybe take an extra damage or two per needle off the overdose because it really isn't that noticeable right now at all
overdose +speed -damage normal regen
stock has no speed but minimal combat healing and normal regen
blutsauger has no speed and worse regen but is good for clutching
that way they all have utility, but it's reliable utility vs clutching utility with the stock as a middle ground
inb4 Relic Rations™
yeah the degreaser outclasses the hell out of the other flamethrowers (except maybe phlog?)
but...it's not overpowered
stock and backburner are just way inferior, buff them
stock shouldn't always be the template for balance, see melee weapons and overdose
speaking of that, buff stock syringe and blutsauger too? in the same vein as the degreaser, the overdose is a great unlock and an upgrad, and nobody uses any other syringe gun