Please just insert the EXACT original mid-house!
I still want to be able to climb on that thing as a Medic, even if it is kinda hard to do :]

And please keep the original look dude, we just want the sightlines and stuff fixed for competitive, not the look and atmosphere of it ^-^

I had a map exactly like that months ago but the issue of last being a defensible fortress still existed. I had to remove the displacement ceilings to make those doors into last not be narrow with a ledge right above them. Obviously making it so a heavy can not sit on the roof of mid and stall is a terrible idea. obviously moving the second forward spawn is a terrible idea. Obviously making the cliffs at mid not that narrow bowling alley is a terrible idea. Obviously removing the clipping above those containers is a terrible idea. I am sorry for trying to make the map play out faster. I guess I should try and give it to phi or scorpio.

thats not even a cliff wtf, it's like a process styled wall...

Just relax man, i understand as a community we're hard to be accepting of maps and are VERY picky. Your efforts to make an improved version of the map are appreciated, keep up the good work!

dude people just want the original mid, that's all. and if you REALLY dont want heavies on top of mid (i agree w that) why not just extend the height/distance of the jump and make it just far enough that a heavy cant make it, but other classes (like medic) still can?

we're a pain in the ass to deal with for custom maps because we've been tortured for far too long

a single jump for a heavy is the same as a medic.

incorrect.

if you're talking about GRU, you should be balancing the map for 6's whitelist.

all classes have a base jump height of 72 units(yellow barrel is 80 units). Gru no longer effect jump height(no damage tic). no if we are talking horizontal the classes speed has an effect, but only really 100 unit difference between a scout and a heavy(single jump vs single jump).

100 units is a lot

also yes height of a non-vertical jump will affect which classes can get on it

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/asdfgqarefsdgaef.png

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/TF2/Team_Fortress_2_Mapper's_Reference

See jump distances

demo jump height and medic jump distance are wrong on that page

so combine horizontal + vertical to make a jump that the heavy misses by a single unit.

idk why you're arguing about this with me, you're wrong and it was a small part of a suggestion i had made for the map.

sorry since it seems like every change I make seems to upset people, and the fact that it took me the better part of 4 hours to get 2 boxes in the right place. the house is back in only the slightest of changes made. I map still will be out by tomorrow I hope.

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/3282301796688004871/FFCAEFC38B2686AB4F591004931567040BAC8E8E/

You have to jump to the wooden lip then have to walk to the side to make it on the roof. I hope that is acceptable.

the old cliff was better too, the displacement on either side of the house. that also added that whole shelf of geometry.

I'm with marmaduke. The old cliff/the displacement on either side of the house. That also added that whole shelf of geometry. Just keep the same mid with the same cliffs, same everything but prevent heavy from getting on roof.

Sorry that your efforts aren't fully being appreciated: the way it seems to work with map threads is that no one gives feedback on what they want until a mapper puts a ton of time into it and then the negative feedback rolls in. It's nothing intentional nor personal and I hope it doesn't dissuade you from continuing this.

ps you might wanna try changing your interp from the default

I am a simple person. I have spent 8 months on this map. I have 60 iterations. For most of the time I have had to chase people down to get feedback. Against my better judgment I have not changed any of the layout of the map. If you want me to write up a change log and a rational for all the changes just tell me. If you are talking about the propane tank and chimney. please be direct. originally at mid there where over 20 "displacements"

I am sorry that I am snappy, but take it from my point of view.

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/3282301796741227523/DE6839FC3DF632C12967C5EB458DA40D66D164C6/

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/3282301796741226335/5FE664DF860AA641611A626E156A89A8112BC843/

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/3282301796741224658/042910E04F51CB284D146F20793F1D5EA88F1F48/

map download

This isn't ____front anymore :(

can you at least explain why you changed the mid from its original form? as far as I know the reason why the map was voted out of the rotation was because the last point was too stalematey -- it was hard to push last and hard to push out of last so both teams just turtled up

at this point I give up. this is not worth the amount of grief that I am getting

changes made:

Mid:
changed cliff from displacement to detail.(same size and shape)
made the cliff crevasse slightly wider to make demo spam not so over powered
removed middle rock wall because displacement have terrible clipping
moved second forward spawn. to make distance to point less
change mid house(was yelled at)changed mid house back
added walls to cut sight lines.
made door way taller to cut sight lines
removed trees because of complaints

Second:
Removed clipping above container
Removed displacements to remove inconstancy in ceiling height
made 2<->3 flank wider
made outside 2<->3 flank wider
made 2<->3 upper door wider
added outside stairs to make holds easier
made yard slightly wider

Last:
boxed out behind the point to make turtleing harder, and added boxes to remove sight lines.
removed the displacement to remove the inconsistency of ceiling height
moved spawn points closer together and in front of the table
moved flank door around the corner to make pushing easier
removed the lips above the doors coming into last
removed most of the clutter close to the ceiling
made 2 main doors taller and wider
removed the glass around the point
removed rocket because it served no purpose

I probably missed some things (probably something about making map ugly and other things)

It's Modernfront now. And I like it :)

It's more like cp_process2 IMO. Not necessarily a bad thing, but everyone loved the house at mid.

on behalf of the tf2 community im sorry that nobody liked ur map u made by removing everything people liked about warmfront and then putting in parts of other maps nobody liked in its place

i dont know how you could have seen this coming

cp_standin s18

let's make huge changes without public awareness then get just get upset when the public generally does not like them.

This last page illustrates why mapping for a bunch of 12 year olds blows dick.

Show some respect.

When Coldfront was played, everyone complained about second and last. Warmfront came and touched up on second/yard and the point on last*. The change to second/yard didn't really make it any better but it was a little more bearable.

Make second better and last x2 better and you're good to go. There's really no need to modernized the map/make it look more like Process. The map's mid is one of the best mids in the game, so even changing that at all is a big no-no.

* - plus other changes as well, which aren't really relevant.

you had to know getting into mapping you were gonna catch flak when you changed stuff around @_@

that being said, i feel like a lot of the posts in here with suggestions were pretty reasonable and not people freaking the fuck out/being dicks (aside from #115 and #116)

dont take it so personally, people just want a good map that flows well for 6's, and when you do something like take a mid that was proven to be balanced, fun, and just good overall, and dramatically change it then yeah there's gonna be some people wondering wtf is going on.

in regards to your map: you'd save yourself a ton of time/effort if you copy/pasted the original mid (with the slight change so heavy cant get on roof) and focused on making 2nd/last phenomenal.

don't get discouraged, people giving you input/feedback about your changes means we/they actually give a shit, so that's a good thing.

warmfront mid was always the coolest shit :(

serious though, i understand that you probably don't want to revert mid back now that you've spent so much effort on changing it, but i think you need to chill a bit and save yourself a ton of effort. you don't need to re-design the map, just fix what was broken by using existing maps as a base to work off. less is more!

So after jumping around on the map a few things were bothering me.
-MY OPINION-
1) These doors should be removed with some signs or something else fancy, they just seem out of place to me and that 3rd picture has a huge wall, maybe you can add something on it maybe a lamp where a soldier can sit for hiding or a demo/scout? :S

http://i.gyazo.com/a96e08d96965d8e883c1412ebb7772b8.png

------------
2)
Can that be a hiding spot?(1st pic)
Will this be the forward spawn, when your team has the 2nd point?(2nd pic)
The current spawn in rc2 feels like the old snake spawn, people could block other teams pushes way to quickly. Maybe like raise the floor a bit and put like 2 boxes under that.(dunno how hard it will be)

http://gyazo.com/2084e91a5e7b33d2b69e861e41eec97b.png

Also, on last can you add a spot on top of the point like on bads last:>

Sorry for this long post, and this is what I think of this map other than that it looks quite nice.

Thanks for the feed back, but do to some changes. I can not implement some of them, also reverted to old spawn point on forward spawn 2. :(

newest version