bastidThe counter to short circuit Engies is hitscan. Hitscan, flames, bison, will still destroy an Engie with the short circuit out. Pushes have to be approached with less of an explosive class mindset if the enemy is running it. Yeah it's "speeding up" in the literal sense of the word but a Concheror Heavy push I can see being pretty brutal. You can flash your Pyro to ensure he airblasts away the Engie so that he can't block shots on the combo with the SC, things like that. And through all this he has no Wrangler. Which is going to be huge no matter the weapon trade-off.
I'm more saying Demoman not being so dominant is interesting. I don't like stalemates either.
Just curious, do you have any hl experience? Because your ideas of ubering heavies in and pyros (to airblast an engineer away ?) are pretty ridiculous . I'm just trying to imagine a heavy push into 2nd point croissant, and how you think that would work.
[quote=bastid]
The counter to short circuit Engies is hitscan. Hitscan, flames, bison, will still destroy an Engie with the short circuit out. Pushes have to be approached with less of an explosive class mindset if the enemy is running it. Yeah it's "speeding up" in the literal sense of the word but a Concheror Heavy push I can see being pretty brutal. You can flash your Pyro to ensure he airblasts away the Engie so that he can't block shots on the combo with the SC, things like that. And through all this he has no Wrangler. Which is going to be huge no matter the weapon trade-off.
I'm more saying Demoman not being so dominant is interesting. I don't like stalemates either.[/quote]
Just curious, do you have any hl experience? Because your ideas of ubering heavies in and pyros (to airblast an engineer away ?) are pretty ridiculous . I'm just trying to imagine a heavy push into 2nd point croissant, and how you think that would work.
Since we are throwing out ideas, I think it might increase the skill if left click was attack and right click destroyed projectiles. I still think the fire speed for destroy projectiles would need to be decreased though.
Since we are throwing out ideas, I think it might increase the skill if left click was attack and right click destroyed projectiles. I still think the fire speed for destroy projectiles would need to be decreased though.
Lower the damage on the left click, keep the metal cost the same. Remove ability to destroy projectiles.
Change right click into the old short circuit, increase metal cost to 20 per shot.
Bam, now it's balanced.
Lower the damage on the left click, keep the metal cost the same. Remove ability to destroy projectiles.
Change right click into the old short circuit, increase metal cost to 20 per shot.
Bam, now it's balanced.
I think the short circuit is fine as it is. Its actually made engi fun to play. I don't know anything about HL but why not just ban it. Even pubbers are already adapting to it just fine.
EDIT: The suggestions to split the damage and projectile destroying functions are literally asking to turn the short circuit into a shitty flamethrower. I think the main purpose of the recent buff is to give engi decent odds against soldiers and demomen in a fight, instead of just getting 2 shot instantly. I was uncomfortable with this thought too but I then dropped the 'muh power classes' mentality and now Im excited at the prospect of other classes being somewhat formidable. The range/damage on this thing is pitiful, so a soldier can just jump away (solly running from engi, the horror!) or use a shotgun and win with superior health. Not to mention it takes 200 metal to kill a single soldier, and doing so requires that you run right into him and his teammates with your slow ass engi girth begging to get hitscanned. The ease and duration of spam blocking is pretty retarded but as I said just ban it. Just remember the wrangler is also a secondary weapon.
I think the short circuit is fine as it is. Its actually made engi fun to play. I don't know anything about HL but why not just ban it. Even pubbers are already adapting to it just fine.
EDIT: The suggestions to split the damage and projectile destroying functions are literally asking to turn the short circuit into a shitty flamethrower. I think the main purpose of the recent buff is to give engi decent odds against soldiers and demomen in a fight, instead of just getting 2 shot instantly. I was uncomfortable with this thought too but I then dropped the 'muh power classes' mentality and now Im excited at the prospect of other classes being somewhat formidable. The range/damage on this thing is pitiful, so a soldier can just jump away (solly running from engi, the horror!) or use a shotgun and win with superior health. Not to mention it takes 200 metal to kill a single soldier, and doing so requires that you run right into him and his teammates with your slow ass engi girth begging to get hitscanned. The ease and duration of spam blocking is pretty retarded but as I said just ban it. Just remember the wrangler is also a secondary weapon.
basketI think the short circuit is fine as it is. Its actually made engi fun to play. I don't know anything about HL but why not just ban it. Even pubbers are already adapting to it just fine.
There's a difference between fun to play and fun to play against. Then there's interesting to play with or against.
It can be a lot of fun to use this... but never fun to get wrecked by it. And the gameplay is rather uninteresting and skillless.
[quote=basket]I think the short circuit is fine as it is. Its actually made engi fun to play. I don't know anything about HL but why not just ban it. Even pubbers are already adapting to it just fine.[/quote]
There's a difference between fun to play and fun to play against. Then there's interesting to play with or against.
It can be a lot of fun to use this... but never fun to get wrecked by it. And the gameplay is rather uninteresting and skillless.
ReasonerbastidThe counter to short circuit Engies is hitscan. Hitscan, flames, bison, will still destroy an Engie with the short circuit out. Pushes have to be approached with less of an explosive class mindset if the enemy is running it. Yeah it's "speeding up" in the literal sense of the word but a Concheror Heavy push I can see being pretty brutal. You can flash your Pyro to ensure he airblasts away the Engie so that he can't block shots on the combo with the SC, things like that. And through all this he has no Wrangler. Which is going to be huge no matter the weapon trade-off.
I'm more saying Demoman not being so dominant is interesting. I don't like stalemates either.
Just curious, do you have any hl experience? Because your ideas of ubering heavies in and pyros (to airblast an engineer away ?) are pretty ridiculous . I'm just trying to imagine a heavy push into 2nd point croissant, and how you think that would work.
I'm not trying to give universal solutions, just throwing ideas out. You don't push every point the same. I know what I wrote looks weird (tbh i was thinking gully last) but I would rather give fringe advice than be a defeatist waiting for a nerf. What if it stays in whitelists?
It's a matter of perspective. What I'm saying only sounds weird in the context of current HL.
[quote=Reasoner][quote=bastid]
The counter to short circuit Engies is hitscan. Hitscan, flames, bison, will still destroy an Engie with the short circuit out. Pushes have to be approached with less of an explosive class mindset if the enemy is running it. Yeah it's "speeding up" in the literal sense of the word but a Concheror Heavy push I can see being pretty brutal. You can flash your Pyro to ensure he airblasts away the Engie so that he can't block shots on the combo with the SC, things like that. And through all this he has no Wrangler. Which is going to be huge no matter the weapon trade-off.
I'm more saying Demoman not being so dominant is interesting. I don't like stalemates either.[/quote]
Just curious, do you have any hl experience? Because your ideas of ubering heavies in and pyros (to airblast an engineer away ?) are pretty ridiculous . I'm just trying to imagine a heavy push into 2nd point croissant, and how you think that would work.[/quote]
I'm not trying to give universal solutions, just throwing ideas out. You don't push every point the same. I know what I wrote looks weird (tbh i was thinking gully last) but I would rather give fringe advice than be a defeatist waiting for a nerf. What if it stays in whitelists?
It's a matter of perspective. What I'm saying only sounds weird in the context of current HL.
basketI think the short circuit is fine as it is. Its actually made engi fun to play. I don't know anything about HL but why not just ban it. Even pubbers are already adapting to it just fine.
Of course it's fun to play when you can go head to head with a solly or demoman as engi and not take any damage. That doesn't mean it belongs in the game.
[quote=basket]I think the short circuit is fine as it is. Its actually made engi fun to play. I don't know anything about HL but why not just ban it. Even pubbers are already adapting to it just fine.[/quote]
Of course it's fun to play when you can go head to head with a solly or demoman as engi and not take any damage. That doesn't mean it belongs in the game.
bastid
I'm not trying to give universal solutions, just throwing ideas out. You don't push every point the same. I know what I wrote looks weird (tbh i was thinking gully last) but I would rather give fringe advice than be a defeatist waiting for a nerf. What if it stays in whitelists?
It's a matter of perspective. What I'm saying only sounds weird in the context of current HL.
It's semi universal that points are lead with an ubered demo , there are exceptions but the damage dealing class demo is heavily involved. I'm trying to figure out what pushes will be like without that damage.
I honestly can see the admins not banning it, they can be very lenient with unlocks in ugc. If it does, I'm glad I decided not to play soldier or demo.
[quote=bastid]
I'm not trying to give universal solutions, just throwing ideas out. You don't push every point the same. I know what I wrote looks weird (tbh i was thinking gully last) but I would rather give fringe advice than be a defeatist waiting for a nerf. What if it stays in whitelists?
It's a matter of perspective. What I'm saying only sounds weird in the context of current HL.[/quote]
It's semi universal that points are lead with an ubered demo , there are exceptions but the damage dealing class demo is heavily involved. I'm trying to figure out what pushes will be like without that damage.
I honestly can see the admins not banning it, they can be very lenient with unlocks in ugc. If it does, I'm glad I decided not to play soldier or demo.
tranchemusicOf course it's fun to play when you can go head to head with a solly or demoman as engi and not take any damage. That doesn't mean it belongs in the game.
I'm so sorry for you if you're actually getting dominated by an engi that is quite literally tickling you to death.
mage24365There's a difference between fun to play and fun to play against. Then there's interesting to play with or against.
It can be a lot of fun to use this... but never fun to get wrecked by it. And the gameplay is rather uninteresting and skillless.
How fucking high do you have to be to have fun getting wrecked by anything? It's NEVER fun to get beat by ANYTHING. Fun comes from winning and personally I think gay shit is way more satisfying to counter. And another thing, If an engi is killing you skillessly with this thing hes pressing into your mug and sitting on m1. That's your fault he's getting away with it.
[quote=tranchemusic]
Of course it's fun to play when you can go head to head with a solly or demoman as engi and not take any damage. That doesn't mean it belongs in the game.[/quote]
I'm so sorry for you if you're actually getting dominated by an engi that is quite literally tickling you to death.
[quote=mage24365]
There's a difference between fun to play and fun to play against. Then there's interesting to play with or against.
It can be a lot of fun to use this... but never fun to get wrecked by it. And the gameplay is rather uninteresting and skillless.[/quote]
How fucking high do you have to be to have fun getting wrecked by anything? It's NEVER fun to get beat by ANYTHING. Fun comes from winning and personally I think gay shit is way more satisfying to counter. And another thing, If an engi is killing you skillessly with this thing hes pressing into your mug and sitting on m1. That's your fault he's getting away with it.
I think the Short Circuit, in its current state, is another vita-saw/danger shield. If the other team uses it, you MUST use it as well otherwise your team will be at a disadvantage
I think the Short Circuit, in its current state, is another vita-saw/danger shield. If the other team uses it, you MUST use it as well otherwise your team will be at a disadvantage
Reasonerbastid
I'm not trying to give universal solutions, just throwing ideas out. You don't push every point the same. I know what I wrote looks weird (tbh i was thinking gully last) but I would rather give fringe advice than be a defeatist waiting for a nerf. What if it stays in whitelists?
It's a matter of perspective. What I'm saying only sounds weird in the context of current HL.
It's semi universal that points are lead with an ubered demo , there are exceptions but the damage dealing class demo is heavily involved. I'm trying to figure out what pushes will be like without that damage.
I honestly can see the admins not banning it, they can be very lenient with unlocks in ugc. If it does, I'm glad I decided not to play soldier or demo.
And if Demos no longer become the most viable uber candidate every single push, what happens? Is that inherently bad? Like you said, other classes would have to put out damage but you've got stuff like CaC, banners, and Phlog (if only) that could make up for lost DPS. It would require a shift in how teams play, for sure. Hell, demoknight is great against short circuit engies, i'm not making a dumb joke here. (half of what i'm typing is plagiarized from another forumgoer by the way) It all comes down to whether or not leagues want a serious change in play. if they don't think HL can be improved I can't really vouch for the Circuit
And again, for all it's been discussed, the lack of a wrangler would be interesting
[quote=Reasoner][quote=bastid]
I'm not trying to give universal solutions, just throwing ideas out. You don't push every point the same. I know what I wrote looks weird (tbh i was thinking gully last) but I would rather give fringe advice than be a defeatist waiting for a nerf. What if it stays in whitelists?
It's a matter of perspective. What I'm saying only sounds weird in the context of current HL.[/quote]
It's semi universal that points are lead with an ubered demo , there are exceptions but the damage dealing class demo is heavily involved. I'm trying to figure out what pushes will be like without that damage.
I honestly can see the admins not banning it, they can be very lenient with unlocks in ugc. If it does, I'm glad I decided not to play soldier or demo.[/quote]
And if Demos no longer become the most viable uber candidate every single push, what happens? Is that inherently bad? Like you said, other classes would have to put out damage but you've got stuff like CaC, banners, and Phlog (if only) that could make up for lost DPS. It would require a shift in how teams play, for sure. Hell, demoknight is great against short circuit engies, i'm not making a dumb joke here. (half of what i'm typing is plagiarized from another forumgoer by the way) It all comes down to whether or not leagues want a serious change in play. if they don't think HL can be improved I can't really vouch for the Circuit
And again, for all it's been discussed, the lack of a wrangler would be interesting
basket I think the main purpose of the recent buff is to give engi decent odds against soldiers and demomen in a fight, instead of just getting 2 shot instantly.
http://puu.sh/5TaUx.jpg
engineer isnt a combat class, a non-combat class shouldnt have such an easy to use and foolproof method to beat combat classes in direct combat
[quote=basket] I think the main purpose of the recent buff is to give engi decent odds against soldiers and demomen in a fight, instead of just getting 2 shot instantly. [/quote]
[img]http://puu.sh/5TaUx.jpg[/img]
engineer isnt a combat class, a non-combat class shouldnt have such an easy to use and foolproof method to beat combat classes in direct combat
GOLDEN_NINJA_WARRIOR
engineer isnt a combat class, a non-combat class shouldnt have such an easy to use and foolproof method to beat combat classes in direct combat
This is exactly the 'muh power classes' mentality that I was talking about. Shouldn't be able to beat a combat class? What law of the universe dictates that. Did it occur to you while you were searching for an obnoxious reaction image that maybe the purpose of this update is to buff the engineer's effectiveness in combat? Did it occur to you that the labels 'combat' and 'support' were invented to describe a classes then-current effectiveness in combat, and should not be used dogmatically to enforce these distinctions well after the fact?
[quote=GOLDEN_NINJA_WARRIOR]
engineer isnt a combat class, a non-combat class shouldnt have such an easy to use and foolproof method to beat combat classes in direct combat[/quote]
This is exactly the 'muh power classes' mentality that I was talking about. Shouldn't be able to beat a combat class? What law of the universe dictates that. Did it occur to you while you were searching for an obnoxious reaction image that maybe the purpose of this update is to buff the engineer's effectiveness in combat? Did it occur to you that the labels 'combat' and 'support' were invented to describe a classes then-current effectiveness in combat, and should not be used dogmatically to enforce these distinctions well after the fact?
http://ugcleague.com/players_page.cfm?player_id=76561198037345059
http://ugcleague.com/players_page.cfm?player_id=76561198022262666
Im sorry John I couldn't wait for you
Im sorry John I couldn't wait for you
A cool down on projectile destruction would be better than anything else.
A cool down on projectile destruction would be better than anything else.
basket
This is exactly the 'muh power classes' mentality that I was talking about. Shouldn't be able to beat a combat class? What law of the universe dictates that. Did it occur to you while you were searching for an obnoxious reaction image that maybe the purpose of this update is to buff the engineer's effectiveness in combat? Did it occur to you that the labels 'combat' and 'support' were invented to describe a classes then-current effectiveness in combat, and should not be used dogmatically to enforce these distinctions well after the fact?
im genuinely flummoxed as to how to respond to this
[quote=basket]
This is exactly the 'muh power classes' mentality that I was talking about. Shouldn't be able to beat a combat class? What law of the universe dictates that. Did it occur to you while you were searching for an obnoxious reaction image that maybe the purpose of this update is to buff the engineer's effectiveness in combat? Did it occur to you that the labels 'combat' and 'support' were invented to describe a classes then-current effectiveness in combat, and should not be used dogmatically to enforce these distinctions well after the fact?[/quote]
im genuinely flummoxed as to how to respond to this
basketGOLDEN_NINJA_WARRIOR
engineer isnt a combat class, a non-combat class shouldnt have such an easy to use and foolproof method to beat combat classes in direct combat
This is exactly the 'muh power classes' mentality that I was talking about. Shouldn't be able to beat a combat class? What law of the universe dictates that. Did it occur to you while you were searching for an obnoxious reaction image that maybe the purpose of this update is to buff the engineer's effectiveness in combat? Did it occur to you that the labels 'combat' and 'support' were invented to describe a classes then-current effectiveness in combat, and should not be used dogmatically to enforce these distinctions well after the fact?
the engineer should be at a disadvantage in direct combat as part of the tradeoff for his utility (building things)
you should be able to beat combat classes with him provided you're better/good enough to overcome the disadvantage, but obnoxious unlocks that replace 'combat combat classes by being better in combat' with 'use this piece of shit' are an awful idea
[quote=basket][quote=GOLDEN_NINJA_WARRIOR]
engineer isnt a combat class, a non-combat class shouldnt have such an easy to use and foolproof method to beat combat classes in direct combat[/quote]
This is exactly the 'muh power classes' mentality that I was talking about. Shouldn't be able to beat a combat class? What law of the universe dictates that. Did it occur to you while you were searching for an obnoxious reaction image that maybe the purpose of this update is to buff the engineer's effectiveness in combat? Did it occur to you that the labels 'combat' and 'support' were invented to describe a classes then-current effectiveness in combat, and should not be used dogmatically to enforce these distinctions well after the fact?[/quote]
the engineer should be at a disadvantage in direct combat as part of the tradeoff for his utility (building things)
you should be able to beat combat classes with him provided you're better/good enough to overcome the disadvantage, but obnoxious unlocks that replace 'combat combat classes by being better in combat' with 'use this piece of shit' are an awful idea
GOLDEN_NINJA_WARRIOR
im genuinely flummoxed as to how to respond to this
Post another reaction image.
When valve realeased the Gunslinger they made it pretty obvious that engineer could serve a dual combat/utility role. However, even with minis and a health buff it was apparent that this role was not refined since engi was still utterly helpless against soldiers and demos in a fight. The short circuit buff was a much needed addition to that role and now engi has at least a fighting chance. Regardless of whether you think it's annoying engi is still at a disadvantage against these classes and should lose or at least not win most of the time. The effectiveness it now has with combo guarding is retarded, I agree, and that's why I think it probably shouldn't and probably won't be allowed in HL. That's not my point. My point is that the weapon is great for pubs, valves only demographic and the setting that ultimately dictates weapon changes. The weapon should be given some time to if it utterly shits on HL fun-having (most likely) and then maybe banned from leagues, but valve should absolutely not touch this weapon again because its fucking perfect now.
[quote=GOLDEN_NINJA_WARRIOR]
im genuinely flummoxed as to how to respond to this[/quote]
Post another reaction image.
When valve realeased the Gunslinger they made it pretty obvious that engineer could serve a dual combat/utility role. However, even with minis and a health buff it was apparent that this role was not refined since engi was still utterly helpless against soldiers and demos in a fight. The short circuit buff was a much needed addition to that role and now engi has at least a fighting chance. Regardless of whether you think it's annoying engi is still at a disadvantage against these classes and should lose or at least not win most of the time. The effectiveness it now has with combo guarding is retarded, I agree, and that's why I think it probably shouldn't and probably won't be allowed in HL. That's not my point. My point is that the weapon is great for pubs, valves only demographic and the setting that ultimately dictates weapon changes. The weapon should be given some time to if it utterly shits on HL fun-having (most likely) and then maybe banned from leagues, but valve should absolutely not touch this weapon again because its fucking perfect now.
i think you need an epileptic fit to lose vs a demoman with the short circuit
i think you need an epileptic fit to lose vs a demoman with the short circuit
yeah there's literally no way demomen can damage you
it's pretty fucking obnoxious
also basket please just quit before you get even further behind
www.youtube.com/watch?v=b97zJxKEqAk
yeah there's literally no way demomen can damage you
it's pretty fucking obnoxious
also basket please just quit before you get even further behind
www.youtube.com/watch?v=b97zJxKEqAk
Cryptoyeah there's literally no way demomen can damage you
Teammates are pretty strong. Also I heard picking your battles helps too.
[quote=Crypto]yeah there's literally no way demomen can damage you
[/quote]
Teammates are pretty strong. Also I heard picking your battles helps too.
neither of those things are demomen
neither of those things are demomen
basketits fucking perfect now.
basketHow fucking high do you have to be
[quote=basket]its fucking perfect now.[/quote]
[quote=basket]How fucking high do you have to be[/quote]
Twilitlordhttp://ugcleague.com/players_page.cfm?player_id=76561198037345059
http://ugcleague.com/players_page.cfm?player_id=76561198022262666
What is it about bad players that makes them want to endlessly argue about weapon balance? Pro tip: You have nothing of value to add to any balance discussion.
[quote=Twilitlord]http://ugcleague.com/players_page.cfm?player_id=76561198037345059
http://ugcleague.com/players_page.cfm?player_id=76561198022262666[/quote]
What is it about bad players that makes them want to endlessly argue about weapon balance? Pro tip: You have nothing of value to add to any balance discussion.
nice, i wondered when the ugc links were going to get posted in a totally scummy fucking attempt to discredit anyone who speaks against the mold. it happened when i tried talking on ugc as well.
just downfrag and move on if you don't want to talk
nice, i wondered when the ugc links were going to get posted in a totally scummy fucking attempt to discredit anyone who speaks against the mold. it happened when i tried talking on ugc as well.
just downfrag and move on if you don't want to talk
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=535
I'm sure these fine gentlemen would love to hear you weapon and balance ideas.
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=535
I'm sure these fine gentlemen would love to hear you weapon and balance ideas.
if you want to quash any real discussion where everyone isn't in agreement with each other and just be set in your circlejerk say so now so i can stop wasting my time here
if you want to quash any real discussion where everyone isn't in agreement with each other and just be set in your circlejerk say so now so i can stop wasting my time here
mage24365Remember that time there was another item that completely obsoleted everything else in its slot?
Remember how it got split into two weapons?
Seriously. Split the wrangler between one that has double fire rate and no shield and one that has the normal fire rate and a shield.
That's how you make other items viable.
Yeah, how did that work out for (new) equalizer again? Splitting wrangler would have the same effect, shield is really good addition to give up and unfortunately needed mechanic in current tf2. To explain fire rate : wrangler is not 100% accurate - valve even nerfed it in summer update iirc to make it less accurate. Why is that? With unlimited range, 100% accuracy would be stupid obviously, but that also mean less bullets will actually hit target being aimed at. That's where fire rate comes in, it helps to deal at least some damage by simply pushing more bullets. In simpler terms, if un-wrangled sentry shoots 10 bullets and hits all of them and wrangled with better fire rate shoots 20 bullets but hits only 4 of them total in same time frame that doubled fire rate helps deal at least some damage. Not even close to lethal.
[quote=mage24365]Remember that time there was another item that completely obsoleted everything else in its slot?
Remember how it got split into two weapons?
Seriously. Split the wrangler between one that has double fire rate and no shield and one that has the normal fire rate and a shield.
That's how you make other items viable.[/quote]
Yeah, how did that work out for (new) equalizer again? Splitting wrangler would have the same effect, shield is really good addition to give up and unfortunately needed mechanic in current tf2. To explain fire rate : wrangler is not 100% accurate - valve even nerfed it in summer update iirc to make it less accurate. Why is that? With unlimited range, 100% accuracy would be stupid obviously, but that also mean less bullets will actually hit target being aimed at. That's where fire rate comes in, it helps to deal at least some damage by simply pushing more bullets. In simpler terms, if un-wrangled sentry shoots 10 bullets and hits all of them and wrangled with better fire rate shoots 20 bullets but hits only 4 of them total in same time frame that doubled fire rate helps deal at least some damage. Not even close to lethal.
as much as I hate to agree with basket, he's partially right, Valve is trying to redefine engineer as a half-combat/half-defensive role (as gunslinger shows) by giving him unlocks that take less than a minute to set up and improve his survivability, as well as his versatility with placements (rescue ranger lets him heal his sentry from far distances and lets him displace it by 1000s of units within seconds).
HOWEVER, this new shortcircuit is pretty insane in what it does for him. It basically turns him into a flank class that can kill anyone he wants to (besides heavy) with either the shotgun for the lower health classes, or shortcircuit for soldier/demo. Combine those two weapons with a mini and +25 health and you got a pretty scary thing to fight, especially with a buff.
I don't hate thinking of engineer as a combat class, but I DO hate how his unlocks are what make him good. Base engineer is fucking awful, but Shotgun(Frontier Justice if you're a real swag lord)/SC/GS engie is a force to be reckoned with. He really is becoming a new pyro where his unlocks literally carry him into being useful, and that's just dumb.
as much as I hate to agree with basket, he's partially right, Valve is trying to redefine engineer as a half-combat/half-defensive role (as gunslinger shows) by giving him unlocks that take less than a minute to set up and improve his survivability, as well as his versatility with placements (rescue ranger lets him heal his sentry from far distances and lets him displace it by 1000s of units within seconds).
HOWEVER, this new shortcircuit is pretty insane in what it does for him. It basically turns him into a flank class that can kill anyone he wants to (besides heavy) with either the shotgun for the lower health classes, or shortcircuit for soldier/demo. Combine those two weapons with a mini and +25 health and you got a pretty scary thing to fight, especially with a buff.
I don't hate thinking of engineer as a combat class, but I [b]DO[/b] hate how his unlocks are what make him good. Base engineer is fucking awful, but Shotgun(Frontier Justice if you're a real swag lord)/SC/GS engie is a force to be reckoned with. He really is becoming a new pyro where his unlocks literally carry him into being useful, and that's just dumb.