Last to spec is med.
Upvote
Upvoted
-9
Downvote
Downvoted
rahThread: EU vs NA girls-only teams
posted in
The Dumpster
haha that'd be cool to watch, I almost never see girls playing this game
haha that'd be cool to watch, I almost never see girls playing this game
MofuI never really understood separating men and women in competitive video games, it just undermines the women that actually succeed in this "boys club" that most competitive games are perceived as...
It's a common misconception that men and women are forcibly separated in video games. As far as I know, there are no rules at all in most competitive video games saying "the main league is for men only." It just so happens that the top level of esports is generally or totally populated by men. As a result, some women-only leagues are created, which do prevent men from playing in those leagues. But the main, top-level leagues, which are generally populated by men, do not disbar women from joining.
Without even getting into the biological differences between men and women (as in reaction time), some simple statistics can explain why there are fewer top-level women than men in most video games.
If we define "top-level" as within the top 1% of players for a population, then of course there will be more "top-level" men than women. This is because 1% of the male TF2 population greatly outnumbers 1% of the female TF2 population. All else equal, the difference in size of the male and female populations in TF2 will be reflected in the difference in size of the male and female populations in competitive TF2.
Why more men than women play TF2 is perhaps a question for another rahThread.
[quote=Mofu]I never really understood separating men and women in competitive video games, it just undermines the women that actually succeed in this "boys club" that most competitive games are perceived as...[/quote]
It's a common misconception that men and women are forcibly separated in video games. As far as I know, there are no rules at all in most competitive video games saying "the main league is for men only." It just so happens that the top level of esports is generally or totally populated by men. As a result, some women-only leagues are created, which do prevent men from playing in those leagues. But the main, top-level leagues, which are generally populated by men, do not disbar women from joining.
Without even getting into the biological differences between men and women (as in reaction time), some simple statistics can explain why there are fewer top-level women than men in most video games.
If we define "top-level" as within the top 1% of players for a population, then of course there will be more "top-level" men than women. This is because 1% of the male TF2 population greatly outnumbers 1% of the female TF2 population. All else equal, the difference in size of the male and female populations in TF2 will be reflected in the difference in size of the male and female populations in competitive TF2.
[i]Why[/i] more men than women play TF2 is perhaps a question for another rahThread.
It's a common misconception that men and women are forcibly separated in video games. As far as I know, there are no rules at all in most competitive video games saying "the main league is for men only." It just so happens that the top level of esports is generally or totally populated by men. As a result, some women-only leagues are created, which do prevent men from playing in those leagues. But the main, top-level leagues, which are generally populated by men, do not disbar women from joining.
Without even getting into the biological differences between men and women (as in reaction time), some simple statistics can explain why there are fewer top-level women than men in most video games.
If we define "top-level" as within the top 1% of players for a population, then of course there will be more "top-level" men than women. This is because 1% of the male TF2 population greatly outnumbers 1% of the female TF2 population. All else equal, the difference in size of the male and female populations in TF2 will be reflected in the difference in size of the male and female populations in competitive TF2.
[i]Why[/i] more men than women play TF2 is perhaps a question for another rahThread.
OscarLwould trans women be allowed in?
trans women are women. They are also male (sex) but we're talking about women (gender)
[quote=OscarL]would trans women be allowed in?[/quote]
trans women are women. They are also male (sex) but we're talking about women (gender)
trans women are women. They are also male (sex) but we're talking about women (gender)
JwMofuI never really understood separating men and women in competitive video games, it just undermines the women that actually succeed in this "boys club" that most competitive games are perceived as...
It's a common misconception that men and women are forcibly separated in video games. As far as I know, there are no rules at all in most competitive video games saying "the main league is for men only." It just so happens that the top level of esports is generally or totally populated by men. As a result, some women-only leagues are created, which do prevent men from playing in those leagues. But the main, top-level leagues, which are generally populated by men, do not disbar women from joining.
Without even getting into the biological differences between men and women (as in reaction time), some simple statistics can explain why there are fewer top-level women than men in most video games.
If we define "top-level" as within the top 1% of players for a population, then of course there will be more "top-level" men than women. This is because 1% of the male TF2 population greatly outnumbers 1% of the female TF2 population. All else equal, the difference in size of the male and female populations in TF2 will be reflected in the difference in size of the male and female populations in competitive TF2.
Why more men than women play TF2 is perhaps a question for another rahThread.
I was not taking issue with TF2 top players themselves, but competitive gaming as a whole.
Here is my main issue. Take this simple situation, you are an up and coming competitive player in whatever game (let's take CS) and you also happen to be a woman, honestly, what is the best play ?
You can either.
Compete in the "general leagues" such as majors, esl, etc... and be met by some of the fiercest competition, risk it all and probably never make it like 90% of people that try to go pro. (male and female)
Or you could play in the feminine leagues where the level is admittedly lower, making a name for yourself will be way easier in those specific leagues, maybe the paycheck won't be as good, but a paycheck is a paycheck and it'll definitely be way easier to achieve.
In term, this encourages those female players to only compete in a lower skill level environment and doesn't encourage growth and skill betterment, and that's why most female (at least in FPS games) pro players are seen as worse. If you only compete with people that have a lower skill ceiling because there are simply fewer players to pick from (ie. your point about there being less female players), you will never improve as fast, so in term the leagues level doesn't improve, and it creates this vicious cycle where the skill improvement in the female leagues gets exponentially slower than the one seen in general leagues.
It's just sad, it pins women's esport as a "lesser" form of esport than the "regular competition". Women can kick ass. But if you play in smaller, less skilled leagues your whole career, you'll never make it.
And that's my argument as to why you should not separate female competition (at least in video games) from the rest.
[quote=Jw][quote=Mofu]I never really understood separating men and women in competitive video games, it just undermines the women that actually succeed in this "boys club" that most competitive games are perceived as...[/quote]
It's a common misconception that men and women are forcibly separated in video games. As far as I know, there are no rules at all in most competitive video games saying "the main league is for men only." It just so happens that the top level of esports is generally or totally populated by men. As a result, some women-only leagues are created, which do prevent men from playing in those leagues. But the main, top-level leagues, which are generally populated by men, do not disbar women from joining.
Without even getting into the biological differences between men and women (as in reaction time), some simple statistics can explain why there are fewer top-level women than men in most video games.
If we define "top-level" as within the top 1% of players for a population, then of course there will be more "top-level" men than women. This is because 1% of the male TF2 population greatly outnumbers 1% of the female TF2 population. All else equal, the difference in size of the male and female populations in TF2 will be reflected in the difference in size of the male and female populations in competitive TF2.
[i]Why[/i] more men than women play TF2 is perhaps a question for another rahThread.[/quote]
I was not taking issue with TF2 top players themselves, but competitive gaming as a whole.
Here is my main issue. Take this simple situation, you are an up and coming competitive player in whatever game (let's take CS) and you also happen to be a woman, honestly, what is the best play ?
You can either.
Compete in the "general leagues" such as majors, esl, etc... and be met by some of the fiercest competition, risk it all and probably never make it like 90% of people that try to go pro. (male and female)
Or you could play in the feminine leagues where the level is admittedly lower, making a name for yourself will be way easier in those specific leagues, maybe the paycheck won't be as good, but a paycheck is a paycheck and it'll definitely be way easier to achieve.
In term, this encourages those female players to only compete in a lower skill level environment and doesn't encourage growth and skill betterment, and that's why most female (at least in FPS games) pro players are seen as worse. If you only compete with people that have a lower skill ceiling because there are simply fewer players to pick from (ie. your point about there being less female players), you will never improve as fast, so in term the leagues level doesn't improve, and it creates this vicious cycle where the skill improvement in the female leagues gets exponentially slower than the one seen in general leagues.
It's just sad, it pins women's esport as a "lesser" form of esport than the "regular competition". Women can kick ass. But if you play in smaller, less skilled leagues your whole career, you'll never make it.
And that's my argument as to why you should not separate female competition (at least in video games) from the rest.
It's a common misconception that men and women are forcibly separated in video games. As far as I know, there are no rules at all in most competitive video games saying "the main league is for men only." It just so happens that the top level of esports is generally or totally populated by men. As a result, some women-only leagues are created, which do prevent men from playing in those leagues. But the main, top-level leagues, which are generally populated by men, do not disbar women from joining.
Without even getting into the biological differences between men and women (as in reaction time), some simple statistics can explain why there are fewer top-level women than men in most video games.
If we define "top-level" as within the top 1% of players for a population, then of course there will be more "top-level" men than women. This is because 1% of the male TF2 population greatly outnumbers 1% of the female TF2 population. All else equal, the difference in size of the male and female populations in TF2 will be reflected in the difference in size of the male and female populations in competitive TF2.
[i]Why[/i] more men than women play TF2 is perhaps a question for another rahThread.[/quote]
I was not taking issue with TF2 top players themselves, but competitive gaming as a whole.
Here is my main issue. Take this simple situation, you are an up and coming competitive player in whatever game (let's take CS) and you also happen to be a woman, honestly, what is the best play ?
You can either.
Compete in the "general leagues" such as majors, esl, etc... and be met by some of the fiercest competition, risk it all and probably never make it like 90% of people that try to go pro. (male and female)
Or you could play in the feminine leagues where the level is admittedly lower, making a name for yourself will be way easier in those specific leagues, maybe the paycheck won't be as good, but a paycheck is a paycheck and it'll definitely be way easier to achieve.
In term, this encourages those female players to only compete in a lower skill level environment and doesn't encourage growth and skill betterment, and that's why most female (at least in FPS games) pro players are seen as worse. If you only compete with people that have a lower skill ceiling because there are simply fewer players to pick from (ie. your point about there being less female players), you will never improve as fast, so in term the leagues level doesn't improve, and it creates this vicious cycle where the skill improvement in the female leagues gets exponentially slower than the one seen in general leagues.
It's just sad, it pins women's esport as a "lesser" form of esport than the "regular competition". Women can kick ass. But if you play in smaller, less skilled leagues your whole career, you'll never make it.
And that's my argument as to why you should not separate female competition (at least in video games) from the rest.
This thread has been locked.