like the dude is probably like one of maybe what, 10 people who are willing to do production. But we're gonna random demo call him 3 times and ban him bcus we need to prove a point.

https://i.gyazo.com/34261495cc0e4bf49929533ca67ce397.png

Food For THought !
and I genuinely believe that goes both ways, notice how I rarely partake in the weekly Shit On RGL thread

yes, call him an idiot and a moron #118. surely this is the way to prove your point brother. with your next post please make sure to call him a nazi as well

10 people EVER maybe. I think there are less than 5 people at this moment that actually had a decent stream layout and had the tech working and all that.

tftv trying to explain this shit to tojo for the 10th time

https://c.tenor.com/bFMcOferOfcAAAAd/dono-wall-talking.gif

its funny how that goes both ways, we literally have different opinions. He has an excuse for why his demo failed to record and I think it's valid, you guys don't. Time to call each other dumb or something

I commit felony assault, but I gave the guy 5 bucks after and I said sorry, therefore I should be exempt from the mandatory minimum sentence.

RGL should never be able to give people preferential treatment on punishments, that's a can of worms that the COMMUNITY no less, should never give them the green light on. If you point to an instance of them doing that i will say thats awful.

Regardless of how you valid you think his excuse is, it's an excuse he didn't record the demo so he should be punished according to the rules, same with any other player in the league. I empathize, but I cant scream from the rooftops that rgl should throw people bones because they do or dont do certain things. that is literally begging rgl to do some whack ass shit with that leeway.

What you should be thinking about is, is the rule beneficial and can I make an argument that proves it isn't. Otherwise your asking for somthing rgl REALLY shouldnt be able to do.

that was dumb as fuck

he is a volunteer for the league, volunteering has led to the issue. I think he deserves a pass, you clearly don't. You can go about ur day now I'm gonna try to stop refreshing the thread :)

how about this analogy, you get convicted of not doing something you're required to do. You tell the judge why you didn't do it. The judge then decides, given the circumstances, he could use another warning, bcus it is clear his intent was not malicous (i promise u antlers isnt cheating lol).

WHO CARES FR, LEAGUE HAS LIKE 30 PEOPLE IN IT,,,

STFU

I already knew you were going to ignore the concept of it and point to it being stupid, mandatory minimums are something I oppose genuinely, but id rather them exist and get applied equally then have them exist and have some sentences be less than they should while others get the shaft for doing or not doing something. As that would lead to a shit ton of cases where oh so and so person did action a or b and got a different sentence, and so and so person did action c and didnt get it. While both committed the same crime
my argument is that we should never give anyone the ability to do that because is can lead to whack as fuck outcomes.

I don't think anyone deserves a "pass" regardless of what they do or dont do, unless you PROVE the rule is a horrendous rule in ways I already outline, thank you for ignoring that, As they say ignorance is bliss.

Suck my knuts.
https://imgur.com/a/yZHnrtm

you analogy fails cause antlers was already warned two different times https://rgl.gg/Public/PlayerProfile.aspx?p=76561198170083101

If you run a red light three different times got off with a warning the first two and you ask the judge for another bone, the judge will fucking laugh at you. Intent also matters very little when you've been warned twice for it, I don't think the dude cheats i think he should of been smarter and double checked after those warnings, i have 1 warning and offense for demos, you bet your ass im checking manually that my demos are on for matches

can we talk about how Multiple People have successfully submitted renamed demos and gotten away with it and if antlers had been less honest and just done that, this probably all wouldn't have been an issue lmao

draconian rules on demos which dont even get watched the vast majority of the time (as evidenced by many people not getting in trouble for straight up submitting the wrong demos as sgc said) seems a little silly to me, also as air pointed out clearly the admins have not even been able to detect cheaters for long stretches of time despite them being mass reported by players and the cheaters providing demos, but rules are rules and given that they are in place it makes sense to enforce them (edit: i think the rules are stupid and demo checks should be way less often or at least not target the same guy 4 times in a given year or w.e. it was for antlers, given ive had like two tops in the last 3 years)

in my 3 seasons of RGL invite i dont think i got asked for my demos a single time, and last season in advanced i got asked one time, is there an actual system for how often you can expect to get asked for demos? the whole system just makes no sense and seems super inconsistent, but what else is new it's RGL

as much as i want to sympathize with antlers it really is not that hard to just have two separate folders for casting and for playing, with prec in the playing one, sucks to have someone who actually cares about the game get banned but u gotta get ur shit together, im p sure there were tftv threads fairly recently where i even posted about how i used to do a symlink switch with a .bat file (on windows) and avoid the hassle of dragging files in and out every time, if ur gonna do it manually and not try to find a better way to do it u just gotta do a good job of it or suffer the consequences

also, these threads are fucking painful to read man i get your point setsul and yea obviously being consistent with bans makes sense, but jfc just stop posting so much, this shit is like a mustardoverlord politics thread where u have to scroll thru the same shit over and over for multiple pages, just let ur earlier posts speak for themselves

Not to open up a whole nother can of worms but uh you might wanna look at *why* louster stepped down before trying to use him as an example lmao

Ey brother I am mostly retired from such nerd essays

why do I need to do that ?? why do you need my validation. there is no right or wrong here its literally just a choice of how to handle a situation.

I said I think he does deserve a pass (for a reason I'm sure you could agree with if you tried REALLY REALLY hard to be empathetical for like 30 seconds), you said you think no one does, literally what are we arguing about at that point. I agree, random demo calls should be a thing, so everyone records demos and the RGL AC people can do their thing. I just also think in THIS SPECIFIC INSTANCE, the league would go on just fine if the guy could get to play the game. you people must have like 0 real life interactions day to day and I'm serious

lol point still stands threads with one person (who doesnt even play in the league) incessantly posting are awful, oh look another RGL thread where i have to read through 15 setsul posts saying the same exact thing

https://youtu.be/EcYzT0OxqVA
context matters dumbass, go outside and get a job

Yea i also dont think thaigrr and vani shouldve gotten banned for multiple demo infractions

I'll try to talk about this then.

1.) This rule is proven unenforceable. Players have and continue to submit fake demos while getting away with it because RGL requests so many they can't check them all. Considering that players have submitted fake demos even recently I have to assume RGL has not made any progress on developing a tool to automate sending and checking random demo requests. This rule can be considered ineffective at providing benefit to the league because players already can sidestep the intended effect of the rule (i.e. not record demos)

2.) There is also something to be said over not every div admin actually bothering to send demo checks. It has a certain kind of irony that div admins can't be bothered to request demos like they are told to, and then proceed to punish players for not recording like they are told to.

3.) Lets do some math and figure out how burdensome the current rules would be on average players.

A player who plays HL+6s regular seasons would have an average of
[(1/6)*(16) + (1/9)(7)] = ~3.44 demo checks per season, or ~10.33 demo checks per year.
Over 4 years this would come out to an average of 41 demo checks. I can easily believe this number because I have been demo checked 5 times over ~20-30 officials.

This player with a 90% pass rate over 4 years of average demo checks would be permabanned from the league, and with a 92.6% pass rate would incur a season long ban towards the end of that 4 year period.

If somebody responds to this post with some shit like "Imagine If You Ran 10% Of All Red Lights You Encountered" or something similar ill be disappointed and not likely to engage in discussion any farther.

I think a big disconnect for the ETF2L players posting in this thread is that ETF2L likely requests a magnitude less of random checks from them, so failing 3 or 4 demo checks is a noticeably harder ordeal. Given that etf2l still has a handful of players banned from missing demo checks, if you increase the magnitude of checks tenfold, I imagine it would be noticeably more than just a handful. You consider it reasonable for warnings to expire after 4 years, but also probably receive 1/4th of the warnings/checks or less. I'm not an ETF2L player so I might be speaking out of my ass, but I don't really see this being discussed.

4.) As I talked about in earlier posts, anticheat can still do their job effectively even with warnings expiring in, say, a year. Atempts to abuse that system could easily be punished in a multitude of ways, and practically speaking nobody who is going to cheat in this game will wait for the free demo check fail whenever they decide to. Demo check warnings expiring to give leniency for the occasional mistake is never going to be deciding factor on whether AC can determine if a player is cheating anyways.

If you believe that no mistakes should go unpunished except the first over a 4 year period, I think that is absurd given that for the average player missing a demo check is completely benign. The normal player is still incentivized to record demos if they receive 10 demo checks per year, making a failed check expire after 1 year is not going to change much in practice besides making it much easier for players to avoid 3month bans / Permabans.

5.) When considering the impact this rule has on the anticheat team- they have operated with this system of warnings not expiring since the 6s league's inception and have still been completely ineffective in multiple circumstances.

The anticheat team has probably gotten 1 permaban on a suspected cheater for 4 demo infractions and uses that as justification for the rule existing in its current form- as if they need it to be this exact way to accomplish that instead of just idk, requesting multiple demos at once shortly after the first failed check.

Ultimately my opinion basically boils down to:
I do not think a rule being consistent justifies it being absurd. No matter which way you spin it average non-cheating members of the community will make benign mistakes and forget to record demos / setup configs improperly / what have you. I myself missed my 2nd demo check because I had done a reinstallation of the game and discovered that the valve autorecord feature turned off when I did so despite no other option in the advanced option menu doing so to telegraph to me that I needed to check this. Obviously with hindsight I know why this happened, but in the moment its not something you think about. The idea of getting 41 checks and only have 1 miss be free, a second being a stern warning with a 2 week ban, and then major seasonal/permabans after seems like overkill to me personally. This isn't something like driving a car where running 1/10th of your red lights will kill pedestrians, it isn't something like slur bans where you need to make an active decision to say hateful things. This is a rule designed to encourage players to record demos for an anticheat team, that's all. People should be allowed to make infrequent mistakes, and suspected cheaters looking to abuse that avenue can still be gotten at with a bit of brainpower.

None of this post relates to antler's case specifically, so do try to tie any of this to his circumstances thank you.

https://i.imgur.com/BfagodA.gif

Imagine If You Ran 10% Of All Red Lights You Encountered

If someone is going to insist on ignoring 3 pages of reasoned discussion to repeat "imo ur just wrong we just have philosophical differences haha" like we're talking about the existence of god, they're fucking idiots and it's gotten to a point where it's just catharsis to call them out. Oh also you can eat shit for putting nazi words in my mouth, and choke on it if you did it because I use a hebrew name.

lmao I don't think you or Bill have any idea why Lou left, you're just randomly bringing up a former TFTV staff member and assigning your own imaginary motivations to him to try to win an argument. You're disgusting.

hilariously, verifiably false

actually sounds like a healthy number of producers to have all at once, I'm pretty sure we didn't have that many regularly on hand when I was doing it.

There are some reasonable arguments that the rule itself might be too draconian, and there's a case to be made for revising them and retroactively reducing the punishments for everyone affected by it. But it's insane that there are multiple people actually arguing exceptions should be made for The Admin's Favorites. I hope these people never get any kind of administrative power.

I have talked to louster a shitload about it, but I will say that the use of that screenshot in this thread inherently implies the situations are similar. That being said there is definitely more to it than "I am really tired from doing this stuff a lot" like your link would suggest.

trust me, I know there's more to it than what that other dude linked, but let's just say louster doesn't come off looking too hot when you know lol

I don't think there is a problem with the rule, just a problem with how many demos they request. If they lowered it to a smaller amount per week (say like 1 from each div and not like from 1 team but from 1 person) I think it would be more sensible for the admins to actually go through it. Maybe every other week for each div so they have a better chance.

Right now I think all that needs to happen is for them to fill a quota of demos to grab. I was messaged to give demos from myself and another teammate. Well my other teammate was on vacation the week I was asked to grab demos for. I told the admin. Instead of saying ok or asking for another weeks from him he asked me to get another of my teammates demos instead which seems kinda weird imo. Like if they are suppose to be random you should go around and say "yah give me the other guys instead." Like if it's suppose to be truly random then make it turkey random instead of that shit.

Thanks for listening to my Ted Talk. No I didn't read half the shit in this thread. Have a good day.

Edit: Autocorrect at it again.

you all need jobs

the real problem is still using prec in 2021 when it has 0 advantages over the ingame demo recording commands that were introduced like 5 years ago (and dont require a plugin!)

that requires setting it up. where as for prec i can just drop that motha fuckin folder in my custom folder and be done with it

its literally just one drop-down option in advanced settings

The square root of 69 is 8, something, right? Cause I've been trying to work it out...

idk i quite like knowing what map my demos are from