Before casting any stones, I want to compliment i69's production team for setting up what has (apart from some hick-ups at the start) been a fairly smooth and well-organised LAN. The casting has been good, the analysis has been great, and all in all I have had a pleasant experience watching.
At the same time, however, I find myself feeling a bit underwhelmed with the matches and I'm not sure whether others share this sentiment. Don't get me wrong, I'm not owed anything as a viewer and I am just happy to be spectating the first international tf2 LAN in years, but it still got me wondering why I feel less engaged watching these games than watching the latest RGL LAN. After doing some thinking, I came to the conclusion it probably came down to the camerawork.
So I had some questions!
1. Is a cheat feed being used at i69 the same way it was at RGL? I get the sense we often miss key plays during games, sometimes even watching another player watch their teammate hit an incredible shot, a perspective that can be quite frustrating as a viewer.
2. If not, is there a possibility of using a cheat feed?
If this is impossible for technical reasons, it literally cannot be helped and we just have to make peace with that. It would be impossible for anyone to expect an observer to catch every key moment/play/airshot. There is only so much you can do when there are 12 gamers on a server all shooting each other. I just feel like there are some tools available to add some additional hype to an event that is a very special one (sex number) and it appears they are either not being used at all or not to their greatest potential.
Apologies if this sounds ungrateful (promise I am not!), I am just curious about the ins and out of production and what could be done differently on the camera front.
Thank you and keep up the good work, it is much appreciated.
Before casting any stones, I want to compliment i69's production team for setting up what has (apart from some hick-ups at the start) been a fairly smooth and well-organised LAN. The casting has been good, the analysis has been great, and all in all I have had a pleasant experience watching.
At the same time, however, I find myself feeling a bit underwhelmed with the matches and I'm not sure whether others share this sentiment. Don't get me wrong, I'm not owed anything as a viewer and I am just happy to be spectating the first international tf2 LAN in years, but it still got me wondering why I feel less engaged watching these games than watching the latest RGL LAN. After doing some thinking, I came to the conclusion it probably came down to the camerawork.
So I had some questions!
1. Is a cheat feed being used at i69 the same way it was at RGL? I get the sense we often miss key plays during games, sometimes even watching another player watch their teammate hit an incredible shot, a perspective that can be quite frustrating as a viewer.
2. If not, is there a possibility of using a cheat feed?
If this is impossible for technical reasons, it literally cannot be helped and we just have to make peace with that. It would be impossible for anyone to expect an observer to catch every key moment/play/airshot. There is only so much you can do when there are 12 gamers on a server all shooting each other. I just feel like there are some tools available to add some additional hype to an event that is a very special one (sex number) and it appears they are either not being used at all or not to their greatest potential.
Apologies if this sounds ungrateful (promise I am not!), I am just curious about the ins and out of production and what could be done differently on the camera front.
Thank you and keep up the good work, it is much appreciated.
We do not have a cheat feed running at i69 as we're using a 0 second SourceTV delay.
The reason for this is to be able to get live reactions from players where possible and for the crowd to have the best live experience.
Additionally during the grand final which will be on tomorrow on the esports stage, we definitely cannot have a sourcetv delay during that period due to the flow of the show so that also factors into not using one during the rest of the event.
We do not have a cheat feed running at i69 as we're using a 0 second SourceTV delay.
The reason for this is to be able to get live reactions from players where possible and for the crowd to have the best live experience.
Additionally during the grand final which will be on tomorrow on the esports stage, we definitely cannot have a sourcetv delay during that period due to the flow of the show so that also factors into not using one during the rest of the event.
even watching another player watch their teammate hit an incredible shot, a perspective that can be quite frustrating as a viewer.
imo nothing wrong with that. You still see the frag and we cant guess which soldier is hitting the airshot on a double sac with 100% accuracy (ie when we saw josh airshot from nubbi pov) would be interested to hear any other complaints you have though, im sure our observers would love to improve
Also cheat feed massively reduced the quality of RGL LAN imo with pauses spoiling all the last pushes
[quote]even watching another player watch their teammate hit an incredible shot, a perspective that can be quite frustrating as a viewer.[/quote]
imo nothing wrong with that. You still see the frag and we cant guess which soldier is hitting the airshot on a double sac with 100% accuracy (ie when we saw josh airshot from nubbi pov) would be interested to hear any other complaints you have though, im sure our observers would love to improve
Also cheat feed massively reduced the quality of RGL LAN imo with pauses spoiling all the last pushes
The cheat feed is overused IMO. Every time the camera swaps it's obvious how the fight is going to play out
The cheat feed is overused IMO. Every time the camera swaps it's obvious how the fight is going to play out
BumFreezeAlso cheat feed massively reduced the quality of RGL LAN imo with pauses spoiling all the last pushes
I think it was the pauses that massively reduced the quality of the lan
[quote=BumFreeze]
Also cheat feed massively reduced the quality of RGL LAN imo with pauses spoiling all the last pushes[/quote]
I think it was the pauses that massively reduced the quality of the lan
BlackOutJonWe do not have a cheat feed running at i69 as we're using a 0 second SourceTV delay.
The reason for this is to be able to get live reactions from players where possible and for the crowd to have the best live experience.
Additionally during the grand final which will be on tomorrow on the esports stage, we definitely cannot have a sourcetv delay during that period due to the flow of the show so that also factors into not using one during the rest of the event.
This makes sense, although I have yet to see any live reactions, but I am guessing that will come once we get on the stage? Either way, thank you for the detailed answer and keep up the good work!
[quote=BlackOutJon]We do not have a cheat feed running at i69 as we're using a 0 second SourceTV delay.
The reason for this is to be able to get live reactions from players where possible and for the crowd to have the best live experience.
Additionally during the grand final which will be on tomorrow on the esports stage, we definitely cannot have a sourcetv delay during that period due to the flow of the show so that also factors into not using one during the rest of the event.[/quote]
This makes sense, although I have yet to see any live reactions, but I am guessing that will come once we get on the stage? Either way, thank you for the detailed answer and keep up the good work!
The camera work has been extremely underwhelming and cheat feed would improve it. If you're worried about pauses spoiling a last push why not develop a plug-in that would delay tac pauses until a certain point after the round has ended a la CS:GO.
The camera work has been extremely underwhelming and cheat feed would improve it. If you're worried about pauses spoiling a last push why not develop a plug-in that would delay tac pauses until a certain point after the round has ended a la CS:GO.
i am begging you on my knees to please stop doing the slow pans during the game
i am begging you on my knees to please stop doing the slow pans during the game
Do more crowd cams, ideally where we can see the whole crowd.
Do more crowd cams, ideally where we can see the whole crowd.
YeeHawThe cheat feed is overused IMO. Every time the camera swaps it's obvious how the fight is going to play out
I'd rather be on the most interesting POV at all times than watching some dude cap mid for 15 seconds during an uber exchange...
[quote=YeeHaw]The cheat feed is overused IMO. Every time the camera swaps it's obvious how the fight is going to play out[/quote]
I'd rather be on the most interesting POV at all times than watching some dude cap mid for 15 seconds during an uber exchange...
DavyCThe camera work has been extremely underwhelming and cheat feed would improve it. If you're worried about pauses spoiling a last push why not develop a plug-in that would delay tac pauses until a certain point after the round has ended a la CS:GO.
For RGL LAN, we ended up informing the teams to only pause once the next round started to deal with the issue of spoilers for the last push. Though I think a plug-in that delay tac pauses would be neat.
[quote=DavyC]The camera work has been extremely underwhelming and cheat feed would improve it. If you're worried about pauses spoiling a last push why not develop a plug-in that would delay tac pauses until a certain point after the round has ended a la CS:GO.[/quote]
For RGL LAN, we ended up informing the teams to only pause once the next round started to deal with the issue of spoilers for the last push. Though I think a plug-in that delay tac pauses would be neat.
flaressDo more crowd cams, ideally where we can see the whole crowd.
We had a crowd cam set up but unfortunately the lack of lighting made for a completely unusable view so we haven't used it. But the Grand Final will be on the Esports stage so stayed tuned!
[quote=flaress]Do more crowd cams, ideally where we can see the whole crowd.[/quote]
We had a crowd cam set up but unfortunately the lack of lighting made for a completely unusable view so we haven't used it. But the Grand Final will be on the Esports stage so stayed tuned!
YeeHawThe cheat feed is overused IMO. Every time the camera swaps it's obvious how the fight is going to play out
This is very true but I don't even think it even gets close to how deep the problem with cheat feed is.
Camera work is a skill and cheat feed stops you learning it properly. It's a great tool for making sure you get a pov of the guy who hits a double airshot. It's not so great if he dies right after and the audience doesn't get a good overview of whats happening in the fight.
I honestly think that producers should consider not using cheat feed where they can. Similar to how people would suggest to scouts that want to work on their movement to unbind their jump key.
Also, people don't spectate the medic enough.
[quote=YeeHaw]The cheat feed is overused IMO. Every time the camera swaps it's obvious how the fight is going to play out[/quote]
This is very true but I don't even think it even gets close to how deep the problem with cheat feed is.
Camera work is a skill and cheat feed stops you learning it properly. It's a great tool for making sure you get a pov of the guy who hits a double airshot. It's not so great if he dies right after and the audience doesn't get a good overview of whats happening in the fight.
I honestly think that producers should consider not using cheat feed where they can. Similar to how people would suggest to scouts that want to work on their movement to unbind their jump key.
Also, people don't spectate the medic enough.
God it feels hard to keep it fast and in the moment, the slow pans defiantly kill it, I get we don’t have the same operators from the old days, new blood workin with what we got, product of progression, etc.
Just grateful to have this, hopefully we can pull who’s working on this and keep them on future projects so they can refine themselves. Anything constructive from others, anything but critical, I hope continues.
God it feels hard to keep it fast and in the moment, the slow pans defiantly kill it, I get we don’t have the same operators from the old days, new blood workin with what we got, product of progression, etc.
Just grateful to have this, hopefully we can pull who’s working on this and keep them on future projects so they can refine themselves. Anything constructive from others, anything but critical, I hope continues.
The bigger issue with tf2 Lans than cheat feed or whatever is that it's completely impossible to figure out when matches will actually start when you're trying to plan your day around them
The bigger issue with tf2 Lans than cheat feed or whatever is that it's completely impossible to figure out when matches will actually start when you're trying to plan your day around them
https://i.gyazo.com/6e61bbf1e186b0693e863cc6ff15e79a.png
Yesterday TurboTabs and kaidus had to talk for more than 20 minutes straight just to wait for the game to start. Admins should just tell the teams to stop scrimming and start the actual game. The viewer count dropped so much in these 20 minutes (+ the additional 15 minutes from map picks until the game actually starts).
Wouldn't it be possible to tell the teams that they have like 15 minutes from the moment the last game ended to get ready and do map picks, and like another 5 min for the game to start? In this time you have ~5 min post game analysis, ~5 min break for people to get ready and another ~5 min for pregame talks
[img]https://i.gyazo.com/6e61bbf1e186b0693e863cc6ff15e79a.png[/img]
Yesterday TurboTabs and kaidus had to talk for more than 20 minutes straight just to wait for the game to start. Admins should just tell the teams to stop scrimming and start the actual game. The viewer count dropped so much in these 20 minutes (+ the additional 15 minutes from map picks until the game actually starts).
Wouldn't it be possible to tell the teams that they have like 15 minutes from the moment the last game ended to get ready and do map picks, and like another 5 min for the game to start? In this time you have ~5 min post game analysis, ~5 min break for people to get ready and another ~5 min for pregame talks
This is the only time kaidus is forced to talk to me, don't blow this for me
This is the only time kaidus is forced to talk to me, don't blow this for me