are you telling me the guy that got banned for cheating, came back, and had everyone still thinking he's cheating actually was cheating? damn i never would've guessed, can't believe he didn't "change his ways" and suddenly become a legit player

What if we extend the first offense sentence from one year to two years and if you decide to play RGL again, you need to pay back all the money you've won your team according to the RGL team earnings number. Someone might just quit instead of paying RGL hundreds of dollars to play another season.

https://i.ibb.co/2t53wHq/3243242.png

it's always the people you most expect

cheat this cheat that. have they considered cheating on their resume for employment?

bro u have got to be very careful here

ohhhh true. please don't kill my family please. im sorry it was a bad joke!!

just get rid of them permanently, this just gives an even bigger excuse for them to be like "look guys ive changed, see this i paid my dues" and then continue to cheat and waste everyone's time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Er8DJqtaF4

Why is the justification for no perma bans to be people might reform like habib or nyxi? This game is 15+ years old and the those are the 2 examples of cheaters not being complete degens like they are 99% of the time. Why are we letting cheating be as big a problem as this, when rgl even admits to not having the needed resources to prevent it all, all in the hopes of letting the next habib or nyxi come up? No shade to these players but if the discussion is going to be as black and white as it has been, then these players simply didn't deserve the second chance they got. The fact they actually changed and grew off of it is fantastic but is an anomaly. The cope of not perma banning cheaters being that in 15 years 2 people managed to not be complete losers is even an argument is just insane.

What would it take for anyone to change their mind on this case? If you can't think of any situation or evidence that would convince you to change your mind, you are thinking illogically; you are turbo-bought into a dogmatic narrative without considering alternative perspectives. Would it take a lan performance, reinstall of tf2, or factory reset PC on stream into scrim/match? Elijah seems to want to show he isn't cheating with whatever he can do with stuff like the monitor/keyboard cams, public demos, and building of a Philly lan team. Why not ask for something you would know would prove he was or wasn't cheating?

This thread started with someone watching that stuff and realizing it made no sense.

So ask for something else? I'm asking what he could due to prove he was or wasn't cheating; if you think his current attempts are not enough or don't make sense, what should he do? Suggest something that would convince you instead of complaining his attempts are not enough.

Explain how dippidy's clips of elijah make sense. Explain how he could be perfectly tracking a player within 66 milliseconds of them changing position or stopping. Show other examples of legit players doing the same thing constantly.

Even if elijah does go to a LAN, it doesn't mean he hasn't been cheating. It really isn't that hard to play the game at an advanced level on scout without cheating. Especially when he has been playing this game for this long. Elijah shouldn't get our trust, because he already broke it when he cheated before and got banned for it. Unless you also mean to suggest elijah was falsely banned 2 years ago? It shouldn't have taken mxr showing wallhacks on stream to get banned from RGL. Everyone knew mxr was cheating for years, and even got anticheat banned on faceit.

Why should be extend our trust to a person who was on the same roster as not one, not two, but THREE other cheaters?

There is no "something else" that's even relevant. He's provided what people would need to see to know if he's cheating or not. Playing on a lan team or reinstalling tf2 doesn't prove anything. Posting his demos, streaming pov etc. does, and with that, people have made their conclusions. No one is saying he hasn't provided enough or complaining that he's not doing what people ask of him or anything, so I'm not sure what you even want.

this guys cheating and he STILL sucks!

He already did everything he could to prove he was cheating or not by streaming and uploading his demos which contain some pretty damning evidence. Going to LAN to prove his innocence is like if I robbed a bank, but realized I was going to get caught, so I returned the money and I expect to not be arrested. The people defending him have probably been told "why would I cheat if I want to go to LAN lol" and have been manipulated into believing his bullshit. Y'all are getting mixed by a teenager lol.

cheater cheats again, tale as old as time

I understand what you say but, in general, this is not a good attitude to have towards cheating and kinda shows how little people truly care about fixing/stopping it. I said it several times before and its not up to the league to fix this, its up to the players to remove these people from our teams and community when they are found.

I guess I don't understand what is so difficult about your team leader simply not scheduling with that team in any way?
How can you personally look forward to fun scrims against a cheater? (especially as a soldier)

If their team can't get scrims because they are blacklisted, so to speak, then I would bet that the other 5 players on his team will either want to drop him from the team or scrim with a person who doesn't fucking cheat. However, I could be wrong and they all love him.

can we talk about the fact that fenomeno is unbanned already (has been for 8 months thankfully he isnt playing lol)

yea that hack

didnt u play on a team with him last season

ya he played med in IM on my team

rolling my eyes so hard that my head is gonna explode

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/530836517715836948/1129082366531489893/image.png

The Fuck? They banned John Wick ?

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/029/803/cover3.jpg

posting since i haven’t seen anyone talk about it:
people weren’t content with showing task manager, monitor cam, handcam, keyboard cam, etc etc.
and it was posted his tf2 files themselves could be injected
he streamed himself uninstalling and reinstalling tf2 and playing his match on no config nothing and put out the same stats as he usually does in a match
just collecting people’s thoughts cause i’m not sure what more he could do besides play at lan to prove himself or what it would take for people to believe him (i’m just interested in peoples thoughts i have no affiliation with elijah)
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1869572988
https://logs.tf/3453935

Why isn't he explaining why he's legit? His thought process behind any of his movements and how it makes sense for him to do what he does? Why isn't he providing examples of other top level Scout's being able to do this, that it's comparable and completely possible? All he's doing is saying "Here's my demo's, I'm not cheating", and letting the gameplay say pretty much the exact opposite. Because as it stands, nothing has been shown that comes close to explaining this obviously suspect gameplay.

As an aside, I wanted to discuss the whole finite vs. permaban thing for cheaters. I actually tend to disagree with some of the hardliners here, and am ok with like a 2-year ban for first offense. Part of that may be believing in the capacity of people to change, especially if they're very young when they cheat; however, I am also sympathetic to the utilitarian idea that banning them benefits not just 1 person, but many.

The more convincing argument for limited bans, however, is that we're talking about subjective reviews done by humans, and not actual VAC/anti-cheat for the most part. Don't get me wrong, I think that the various anti-cheat teams do a great job in being certain before laying down the banhammer (and have definitely improved in the past decade or so; you almost never see scandals about unfair bans anymore). Still, as long as it's humans deciding these things, you will always be 99.9% sure, not 100%.

I think a mechanism by which a hypothetical unfairly banned player can prove how dedicated to competitive they are by coming back and playing legit, with a ton of scrutiny on them, is somewhat reasonable. Like, didn't that happen to a couple of guys in EU, like quad or Beavern? And I know there was rky in AU, but maybe the consensus is he really did cheat earlier- someone with more information on that would need to let me know. Either way, if the person was high-profile the first time around, there's always going to be tons of eyes on them, and if they're still cheating it gets found out pretty quickly (see: this thread).

Like, correct me if I'm wrong, but elijah is still arguing that his FIRST ban was unjust, and he never cheated, right? If i'm wrong about that, let me know, but given his gameplay looks pretty identical to how it did before, I figured that was his argument. Obviously, few of us believe him, but that's his story, and we gave him another chance to prove it. He failed to do so, and now, IF we can once again agree he is cheating for sure, a permaban seems in order.

If this were a real game and not tf2, playing in-person would not be some kind of last resort, it would literally be the first thing elijah did. When pro players in csgo thought ropz (before he went pro) was cheating in faceit, he literally went down to the faceit studio and played live, which pretty much dispelled everything. Have elijah go to dippidy's house and play on his setup! Or, less facetiously, have him play on someone else's setup on LAN. It's onerous, but he'd do it if he really cared about proving his innocence.

please do not come to my house

Im with Mustard here I am obviously biased towards Elijah, but I don't think anyone would go through all this effort if they weren't truly innocent. I don't know it sounds stupid but it's my thoughts.