I hope you enjoy my long essay about the balance of the sniper class!
Re-Balancing Sniper [SkrapbookTF2]
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[youtube]https://youtu.be/p1pA8gpfUW4[/youtube]
I hope you enjoy my long essay about the balance of the sniper class!
I hope you enjoy my long essay about the balance of the sniper class!
I'm going to keep it real chief the analysis in this video is really bad. Lot's of things I could say about basically every point but the fact that a highlander player in big 2025 nonironically said "just don't peak the sniper and get your spy to stab him bro" is a little insane. This mentality is how ppl just autolose every koth map.
Also there's something really funny about trying to rebut the idea that sniper has no counters (outside of another sniper) by providing a counterexample that requires two players.
I'm going to keep it real chief the analysis in this video is really bad. Lot's of things I could say about basically every point but the fact that a highlander player in big 2025 nonironically said "just don't peak the sniper and get your spy to stab him bro" is a little insane. This mentality is how ppl just autolose every koth map.
Also there's something really funny about trying to rebut the idea that sniper has no counters (outside of another sniper) by providing a counterexample that requires [i]two players[/i].
Also there's something really funny about trying to rebut the idea that sniper has no counters (outside of another sniper) by providing a counterexample that requires [i]two players[/i].
springrollsAlso there's something really funny about trying to rebut the idea that sniper has no counters (outside of another sniper) by providing a counterexample that requires two players.
The point of that section is that the counter to sniper is teamwork and positioning. He can only look at one place at a time and so anyone from literally anywhere else can kill him easily. The same example would've worked with scout, soldier, demo, even heavy doesn't matter. The problem with all of those however, is that they can't steal his identity and his tax return... Making it far less profitable to do so.
Edit: I should add that the theme of teamwork is kept up throughout the video and is mentioned explicitly more than once. Every class in the game is weak to a 2v1.
[quote=springrolls]Also there's something really funny about trying to rebut the idea that sniper has no counters (outside of another sniper) by providing a counterexample that requires two players.[/quote]
The point of that section is that the counter to sniper is teamwork and positioning. He can only look at one place at a time and so anyone from literally anywhere else can kill him easily. The same example would've worked with scout, soldier, demo, even heavy doesn't matter. The problem with all of those however, is that they can't steal his identity and his tax return... Making it far less profitable to do so.
Edit: I should add that the theme of teamwork is kept up throughout the video and is mentioned explicitly more than once. Every class in the game is weak to a 2v1.
The point of that section is that the counter to sniper is teamwork and positioning. He can only look at one place at a time and so anyone from literally anywhere else can kill him easily. The same example would've worked with scout, soldier, demo, even heavy doesn't matter. The problem with all of those however, is that they can't steal his identity and his tax return... Making it far less profitable to do so.
Edit: I should add that the theme of teamwork is kept up throughout the video and is mentioned explicitly more than once. Every class in the game is weak to a 2v1.
i think people who make arguments like "other team can just run it" or "this is countered by teamwork and positioning" shouldn't be allowed to express opinions on this forum.
i think people who make arguments like "other team can just run it" or "this is countered by teamwork and positioning" shouldn't be allowed to express opinions on this forum.
This conversation is getting a little sidetracked. Sure the analysis was clearly streamlined for entertainment value more than educational, but the thing we can all agree on is that I should be allowed to cheat and get away with it.
This conversation is getting a little sidetracked. Sure the analysis was clearly streamlined for entertainment value more than educational, but the thing we can all agree on is that I should be allowed to cheat and get away with it.
MavenspringrollsAlso there's something really funny about trying to rebut the idea that sniper has no counters (outside of another sniper) by providing a counterexample that requires two players.
The point of that section is that the counter to sniper is teamwork and positioning. He can only look at one place at a time and so anyone from literally anywhere else can kill him easily. The same example would've worked with scout, soldier, demo, even heavy doesn't matter. The problem with all of those however, is that they can't steal his identity and his tax return... Making it far less profitable to do so.
Edit: I should add that the theme of teamwork is kept up throughout the video and is mentioned explicitly more than once. Every class in the game is weak to a 2v1.
While I appreciate that you recognize that 2v1ing any class is how you beat them, and I think most newer or low div players still need to learn that, I think not having experience playing against the best snipers in the game doesn't fully inform your view. Spring rolls is correct that the mentality of "just hide and let your spy stab him" is really fucking stupid because all it takes is 1 engineer that hits half their shots to stop the spy.
Teams at the highest level of competition (at least in HL) have great difficulty stopping a good sniper from taking over the game, or they simply can't because the other sniper is having a really good game and killing 4-5 players before anyone can close the distance even if they do everything right on paper. There's no other class that can do this, because there is no other class that benefits from being very far away from the enemy. If you had jay on soldier, and he doesnt miss a single rocket, he will eventually run out of health because he has to be close range to maximize his damage, and other classes will do more damage to him as he is closer. The best snipers usually take over the game, the best spies & engineers & heavies & pyros do not. That's a class issue, not a skill issue.
[quote=Maven][quote=springrolls]Also there's something really funny about trying to rebut the idea that sniper has no counters (outside of another sniper) by providing a counterexample that requires two players.[/quote]
The point of that section is that the counter to sniper is teamwork and positioning. He can only look at one place at a time and so anyone from literally anywhere else can kill him easily. The same example would've worked with scout, soldier, demo, even heavy doesn't matter. The problem with all of those however, is that they can't steal his identity and his tax return... Making it far less profitable to do so.
Edit: I should add that the theme of teamwork is kept up throughout the video and is mentioned explicitly more than once. Every class in the game is weak to a 2v1.[/quote]
While I appreciate that you recognize that 2v1ing any class is how you beat them, and I think most newer or low div players still need to learn that, I think not having experience playing against the best snipers in the game doesn't fully inform your view. Spring rolls is correct that the mentality of "just hide and let your spy stab him" is really fucking stupid because all it takes is 1 engineer that hits half their shots to stop the spy.
Teams at the highest level of competition (at least in HL) have great difficulty stopping a good sniper from taking over the game, or they simply can't because the other sniper is having a really good game and killing 4-5 players before anyone can close the distance even if they do everything right on paper. There's no other class that can do this, because there is no other class that benefits from being very far away from the enemy. If you had jay on soldier, and he doesnt miss a single rocket, he will eventually run out of health because he has to be close range to maximize his damage, and other classes will do more damage to him as he is closer. The best snipers usually take over the game, the best spies & engineers & heavies & pyros do not. That's a class issue, not a skill issue.
The point of that section is that the counter to sniper is teamwork and positioning. He can only look at one place at a time and so anyone from literally anywhere else can kill him easily. The same example would've worked with scout, soldier, demo, even heavy doesn't matter. The problem with all of those however, is that they can't steal his identity and his tax return... Making it far less profitable to do so.
Edit: I should add that the theme of teamwork is kept up throughout the video and is mentioned explicitly more than once. Every class in the game is weak to a 2v1.[/quote]
While I appreciate that you recognize that 2v1ing any class is how you beat them, and I think most newer or low div players still need to learn that, I think not having experience playing against the best snipers in the game doesn't fully inform your view. Spring rolls is correct that the mentality of "just hide and let your spy stab him" is really fucking stupid because all it takes is 1 engineer that hits half their shots to stop the spy.
Teams at the highest level of competition (at least in HL) have great difficulty stopping a good sniper from taking over the game, or they simply can't because the other sniper is having a really good game and killing 4-5 players before anyone can close the distance even if they do everything right on paper. There's no other class that can do this, because there is no other class that benefits from being very far away from the enemy. If you had jay on soldier, and he doesnt miss a single rocket, he will eventually run out of health because he has to be close range to maximize his damage, and other classes will do more damage to him as he is closer. The best snipers usually take over the game, the best spies & engineers & heavies & pyros do not. That's a class issue, not a skill issue.
just 2v1 the guy hiding behind the whole enemy team. magically teleport near him with 2 players
just 2v1 the guy hiding behind the whole enemy team. magically teleport near him with 2 players
I originally wrote a much longer essay but the TLDR is that I agree with you pajaro. Sniper is an incredibly dominant class and my experience in comp tf2 isn't at the highest level.
My main point however is that the reason sniper is so hard to kill us because he has a team protecting him at all times. He is clearly weak to stuff or else people wouldn't need to sit on him.
The point of a team game is to boost each others strengths while protecting each others weaknesses. Just because the 8 other people on his team have figured out how to make sniper less weak doesn't make the class itself overpowered in my opinion.
If teamwork is actively being used in the argument for him being too powerful, I don't get why it's ridiculous to say that teamwork can be used against him.
I originally wrote a much longer essay but the TLDR is that I agree with you pajaro. Sniper is an incredibly dominant class and my experience in comp tf2 isn't at the highest level.
My main point however is that the reason sniper is so hard to kill us because he has a team protecting him at all times. He is clearly weak to stuff or else people wouldn't need to sit on him.
The point of a team game is to boost each others strengths while protecting each others weaknesses. Just because the 8 other people on his team have figured out how to make sniper less weak doesn't make the class itself overpowered in my opinion.
If teamwork is actively being used in the argument for him being too powerful, I don't get why it's ridiculous to say that teamwork can be used against him.
My main point however is that the reason sniper is so hard to kill us because he has a team protecting him at all times. He is clearly weak to stuff or else people wouldn't need to sit on him.
The point of a team game is to boost each others strengths while protecting each others weaknesses. Just because the 8 other people on his team have figured out how to make sniper less weak doesn't make the class itself overpowered in my opinion.
If teamwork is actively being used in the argument for him being too powerful, I don't get why it's ridiculous to say that teamwork can be used against him.
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