I'll spoiler my direct reply to that because I don't think it's very relevant to the real issue, making i49 the best TF2 LAN there ever will be:

The whole idea that it's somehow good that there was a contest for who could be the Multiplay-sponsored stream saddens me. Our community is too small to be split between these two 'rival' orgs, at least for an event like this. There should have been a joint proposal from the start.

This could well be the last EU-NA TF2 LAN (and we're just at #2) and instead of two orgs getting ready to make the most out of it together we have this shit.

I'd love to work with the tf.tv guys, but they might not show due to not getting the slot. And even if they do show, they might not get to cast/help because Arx won't work with them.
We'll have amazing people spanning a whole bunch of timezones investing all this time and money and some bullshit between basically three of them makes the whole thing incredibly difficult.
Can you imagine a NA - EU grand final with just brits/euros casting, while we have fucking salamancer in the audience? We lose.

I'm hoping that when i52 comes around, we'll have this thread on the biggest fucking beamer projecting inside the TF2 area while we're all laughing our asses off and drinking that digusting English beer.

Which is still probably 10x better than American beer, 'cause that's just flavored water.

(read bold for tl;dr)

In all honesty Arx, this needs to be addressed. I loved VTV's coverage of i46, and I actually watched a lot of VTV when I was first getting interested in 6v6. That being said, don't pull out this "us fighting for coverage is hurting TF2" bullshit when in reality VTV is the only thing splitting the community. Look at statistics for streams, page views, whatever. It's blatantly obvious that the community has chosen to make TF.TV their hub for competitive TF2. And why shouldn't they? TF.TV offers great NA an EU coverage, while VTV offers only EU coverage.

You can argue about who has better casters/streams/whatever until you're blue in the face, but the fact of the matter is Teamfortress.tv has become the central hub for competitive TF2. Hell, TF.TV still links to VTV streams/articles, and that's a one way street.On TF.TV it shows your "VanillaTV wants you" article, and shows about 10 streams online (mostly NA, some euros including Byte). On VTV there is no NA section. It shows 2 streams up right now (the 2 EU ones). TF.TV is trying to promote all TF2. VTV seems to be promoting their TF2.

I love both you and Beta when you guys cast. In fact, you two are one of my favorite casting duos (behind only DJCbear). But to be honest, I really hope you guys see the light and jump ship. TF.TV is growing steadily, and VTV has been treading water ever since TF.TV's EU coverage has gotten serious. The only thing that's holding back TF2 at this point (if you can call it that) is the fact that VTV is struggling to keep people from switching to TF.TV's streams. You realize that without VTV's stream during EU Prem matches, TF.TV's streams would likely have gotten 2000 viewers, right? You want to help TF2? Let TF.TV cover i46, like 90% of this community seems to want.

If I may make one serious post, it's this:

Can we stop saying the TF2 scene is too small to have two competing orgs?

Competition is much better for the viewers, since it drives up the quality and quantity of content produced. I'd much rather see two or three competing casting groups wrestle over viewers. Of course, when they get into really heated fights like this, it can cause PR problems for both groups, which is why they normally try to keep it to back channels. Oh well - it's a learning experience here.

I never saw anyone complaining that TF2 was "too small" for more than 3 shoutcasters, yet ultimately all of the top-tier casters want to get the best casts - the grand finals of tournaments, the big showmatches. Who should be casting the i49 grand finals? Is TF2 "too small" for competition to exist among the casters for that coveted slot? Should we just let ALL the casters cast the match at the same time, roundtable-style? Of course not. However it's decided, there should only be two, and tough luck to the rest.

Have you never tried anything other than PBR and Bud Light? Jesus, go drink a craft beer.

I don't drink, period ;)

is it really so damn difficult to have dual casts? You're both community casting groups -_-

Then please never make a comment about American beer again.

Stop it.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7sowmF0oY1qg39ewo1_500.gif

Canadian Beer > American Beer > European Beer

Not even just 'merica.

The issue is which group receives funding from Multiplay to put boots on the ground. Of course TFTV could run a stream, that's not the same thing as getting Lange and other TFTV staff there and covering some of their expenses.

Yes! This thread is now about beer.
German beer > all

i think we need to throw our ping differences aside.

German beer > Other beer (Belgian is gud 2)

I think we just get some free event tickets, a mini-stage and the chance to cast the finals on the big stage. (and I'm pretty sure they won't provide STV for the finals again)

whoa whoa whoa

belgian > german beer

It's not so much an issue of talent (not now anyway, it was ~3 months ago), but because of sponsors and serious orgs. Take ETF2L. Ideally, ETF2L would have a much easier time attracting sponsors if they could guarantee a known quantity in terms of coverage by having an official coverage partner. This topic has come up behind closed doors at the planning stage of every ETF2L season since about s9. I'm not saying you pick one org and they're the only one allowed to cast (in practice, probably nothing would change for you: the viewers), but just declaring an official partner allows a potential sponsor to know exactly what they're getting and do a cost/benefit analysis on it. I've tried on many occasions to sort some arrangement out while part of both VTV and TFTV, but alas to no avail. From ETF2L's perspective, it has the potential to cause a lot of drama, and they just can't be fussed with it.

For sure, Belgium takes it for blonde ales without a doubt.
Now if we are talking some of the darker IPAs, I think America actually has some of the best candidates.

What about having an official ETF2L Twitch channel and everybody shares it for a Match each Week a la ESEA?

http://i.imgur.com/MaNumLS.jpg

The amount of bigotry in this thread (mostly from outsiders to the drama) is sickening.

why does this have +4 frags but the original post only has +2? Damnnn

europeans are human pond scum

This thread made me realize: Lange and Arie are so cool!

Wait, so in match tickers where both orgs are casting, we don't specifically add TFTV as a caster? What am I missing here?

and here I was waiting for the day of a vanillatf2 and tftv merger

People wanting TF2 to grow. The reason it's not is because of unfortunate events like this. The whole thing, not just this post or this particular issue and/or problem.

If we as a community, can't just suck some shit up, swallow some pride for the greater good; Why would we expect TF2 to grow?

mge for it