I was recently watching Numlocked's stream, discussing how to get more players into comp TF2, and more specifically sixes, and it got me thinking.Teamfortress has a gigantic player base; it's the most played game on Steam. How can we get more people to play that aren't already playing competitive? What if ever week or every other week, we had a pub competition of sixes. I would be willing to look around in various public servers and finding twelve players to play sixes for an hour. What I would need is two players who are well name, with big names, to coach them for it. If we had a Numlocked versus B4nny sixes pug, or a Platinum versus Harbleu or something like that, not only would the competition be hilarious, but it would also grow the community. Maybe after three months there's a buzz going around the Skial servers or Lotus Clan or Valve servers "Have you heard about that group of guys asking a bunch of players to play this weird game mode? It sounds fun". I think it would be a great idea, I just need a few people with the name to be able to coach.
Second most played, after Dota: http://store.steampowered.com/stats
Cool idea though.
Cool idea though.
Do you have a server? A mumble?
Do you think that most pub players care at all about the competitive side of tf2 or know who the top players are? Do you think they're going to want to download mumble just to play in a pug that plays nothing like the game they currently play?
Why would top players want to do this? They spend an hour or two whenever these are hosted teaching people who are brand new and may not even have any interest in the competitive side of things how to play.
If you want to draw players from pubs, add them to your friends list and invite them to newbie mixes. The honest truth is that people who want to play competitive video games will find their way whether there are pub competitions or not. Being vocal in pubs about tf.tv and the competitive side of tf2 is honestly enough. The scene is growing, even if a lot of it is geared towards highlander and UGC in general. Go into any server and pubstomp for a while and you'll have people asking you what UGC team you're on and if you know stabby stabby. It's not that people don't have knowledge of the format, it's that a lot of people just don't want to play the game competitively.
tl;dr being an advocate for the format is a lot more helpful than roping in top players for some sort of ghetto pugs with pub players
Do you think that most pub players care at all about the competitive side of tf2 or know who the top players are? Do you think they're going to want to download mumble just to play in a pug that plays nothing like the game they currently play?
Why would top players want to do this? They spend an hour or two whenever these are hosted teaching people who are brand new and may not even have any interest in the competitive side of things how to play.
If you want to draw players from pubs, add them to your friends list and invite them to newbie mixes. The honest truth is that people who want to play competitive video games will find their way whether there are pub competitions or not. Being vocal in pubs about tf.tv and the competitive side of tf2 is honestly enough. The scene is growing, even if a lot of it is geared towards highlander and UGC in general. Go into any server and pubstomp for a while and you'll have people asking you what UGC team you're on and if you know stabby stabby. It's not that people don't have knowledge of the format, it's that a lot of people just don't want to play the game competitively.
tl;dr being an advocate for the format is a lot more helpful than roping in top players for some sort of ghetto pugs with pub players
While any event will be good and certainly will raise overall player base awareness, the main problem was and still is - no easy access to low-level and friendly 6v6 play.
So, lets pretend this plan is working and we have pack of noobs who want to try it again.
The most user friendly way (read - convenient and easy to start) to grab some 6v6 experience is tf2lobby, which means zero coordination, no voice and swearing in chat (you can have a good game from time to time though).
IRC pugs are aimed for div level players, newbie mix-ups - same stuff, player who participating in this events already has competitive mindset.
What we need is a good easy-to-go platform (I prefer web-based one) with ability to segregate player by skill level and working report/karma system. It would be nice to have ability to run "educative" game where 5 player in each team are noob + one volunteered high-ranked player who makes calls and control flow of the game (+ some reward system for "teaching").
tl;dr Some place where people with lack of confidence could feel safe and get some experience and friends.
So, lets pretend this plan is working and we have pack of noobs who want to try it again.
The most user friendly way (read - convenient and easy to start) to grab some 6v6 experience is tf2lobby, which means zero coordination, no voice and swearing in chat (you can have a good game from time to time though).
IRC pugs are aimed for div level players, newbie mix-ups - same stuff, player who participating in this events already has competitive mindset.
What we need is a good easy-to-go platform (I prefer web-based one) with ability to segregate player by skill level and working report/karma system. It would be nice to have ability to run "educative" game where 5 player in each team are noob + one volunteered high-ranked player who makes calls and control flow of the game (+ some reward system for "teaching").
tl;dr Some place where people with lack of confidence could feel safe and get some experience and friends.
I agree that this would be too much of a hassle for the amount of uncertainty it pertains.
I think one of the easiest ways to attract people and raise awareness (individually) is by playing in pubs ourselves and reppin' some hash-tags. Could have #TeamFortress.tv / #VanillaTV.org , #TF2Lobby.com , #HRGvsMix^2nite!!! , etc. Quite some people have been doing this lately and even I have, people do ask what it is. Hopefully you guys do good while pubbing with the hash-tags and people will see your name on the top of the board and your skill, which might peak their interest in someway.
One pre-caution, I would NOT wear the tag if you plan on flooding a server with 10 of your friends, looking to stomp them. That'll do more harm than good, and same goes for if you plan to/are a shit-talker. Please, just don't.
I think one of the easiest ways to attract people and raise awareness (individually) is by playing in pubs ourselves and reppin' some hash-tags. Could have #TeamFortress.tv / #VanillaTV.org , #TF2Lobby.com , #HRGvsMix^2nite!!! , etc. Quite some people have been doing this lately and even I have, people do ask what it is. Hopefully you guys do good while pubbing with the hash-tags and people will see your name on the top of the board and your skill, which might peak their interest in someway.
One pre-caution, I would NOT wear the tag if you plan on flooding a server with 10 of your friends, looking to stomp them. That'll do more harm than good, and same goes for if you plan to/are a shit-talker. Please, just don't.
KissmeHopefully you guys do good while pubbing with the hash-tags and people will see your name on the top of the board and your skill...
this should be our new approach
pub stomping!
this should be our new approach
pub stomping!
grillz
KissmeOne pre-caution, I would NOT wear the tag if you plan on flooding a server with 10 of your friends, looking to stomp them. That'll do more harm than good, and same goes for if you plan to/are a shit-talker. Please, just don't.
Please read my whole post before commenting next time. Thank you. I am NOT for pub stomping with these tags. Don't put words in my mouth.
[quote=Kissme]One pre-caution, I would NOT wear the tag if you plan on flooding a server with 10 of your friends, looking to stomp them. That'll do more harm than good, and same goes for if you plan to/are a shit-talker. Please, just don't.[/quote]
Please read my whole post before commenting next time. Thank you. I am NOT for pub stomping with these tags. Don't put words in my mouth.
Hmmm... sounds exactly like Newbie Mixes to me.
Two Coaches that are in ESEA
Teams of players who haven't played competitive at all or very much
#NewbieMixes
Two Coaches that are in ESEA
Teams of players who haven't played competitive at all or very much
#NewbieMixes
The problem is most of the players in newbie mixes are already into competitive, they already watch casts or play highlander. I want to try to start attracting some of the player base that isn't already an active part of the competitive community. Another issue with pulling in new players is their ideas of skill levels; if we have a bunch of competitive players pubstomping and absolutely destroying a Valve server, it will intimidate players and make them think they're not good enough for competitive. A lot of the exposure new players get is watching invite or prem games, and when they see really high level play it makes them think they could never participate. I would like to be able to create an environment where all the players are new to it, maybe even run it so a player that is new to tf2 would still be able to participate and have fun.
me and ipz talked about hosting a weekly show where we would help players trying to get into competitive tf2, by going over the week's ETF2L maps and talking about tactics and such for them, as well as reviewing demos of newer players and giving suggestions on certain things they should focus on improving. we're gonna talk about more stuff to include. nothing certain as of yet, just discussed.
edit: also open to suggestions :)
edit: also open to suggestions :)
#12
Do you think random pubber is subscribed to a competitive youtube channel?
It will be a great help for 6v6 beginners, but I don't think it will reach casual players.
Lets face it, tf2 public is too different from competitive play, that's why transition from casual to serious play is so hindered. Without turning lobby system into common way of play, we can't expect lots of players.
Suggestion:
I don't think that top-level pros should concentrate on teaching pubbers. They should concentrate on help to competitive amateurs, to raise overall level of pro scene.
The simple analogy:
When we speak about pub - we need school teacher to form them from casual players to ready for competitive one.
numlocked/ipz etc - is University level, to polish your play as pro-player.
Do you think random pubber is subscribed to a competitive youtube channel?
It will be a great help for 6v6 beginners, but I don't think it will reach casual players.
Lets face it, tf2 public is too different from competitive play, that's why transition from casual to serious play is so hindered. Without turning lobby system into common way of play, we can't expect lots of players.
Suggestion:
I don't think that top-level pros should concentrate on teaching pubbers. They should concentrate on help to competitive amateurs, to raise overall level of pro scene.
The simple analogy:
When we speak about pub - we need school teacher to form them from casual players to ready for competitive one.
numlocked/ipz etc - is University level, to polish your play as pro-player.
The attitude by #3 is exactly what is wrong. We can't sit back if we want the TF2 competitive scene to grow to its full potential, we have to take the initiative and show pubbers why it's such a great thing to move into.
The example I frequently quote is the Highlander Community Challenge of a few years back on ETF2L which provided huge player input and a lot of them stuck around and moved into 6s, and form a large amount of the top/mid scene now. It was 8 pub or div6 players + 1 higher div mentor, and it effectively brought me and tonnes of others into the scene. It was massively advertised and a great success, as it combined great advertising with prizes and competition that appealed to pubbers.
The example I frequently quote is the Highlander Community Challenge of a few years back on ETF2L which provided huge player input and a lot of them stuck around and moved into 6s, and form a large amount of the top/mid scene now. It was 8 pub or div6 players + 1 higher div mentor, and it effectively brought me and tonnes of others into the scene. It was massively advertised and a great success, as it combined great advertising with prizes and competition that appealed to pubbers.
#13:
With further thought, that's a better idea. Having top level pros coaching as opposed to someone who just understand the game reasonably well is of no benefit, and only takes away from their time doing other stuff within the community. I'm not that good, but I could coach; would anyone else be willing to volunteer if this gets off the ground?
Also, coaching could help to improve gamesense. By teaching other players the same ideas, it reinforces them in your own head.
With further thought, that's a better idea. Having top level pros coaching as opposed to someone who just understand the game reasonably well is of no benefit, and only takes away from their time doing other stuff within the community. I'm not that good, but I could coach; would anyone else be willing to volunteer if this gets off the ground?
Also, coaching could help to improve gamesense. By teaching other players the same ideas, it reinforces them in your own head.
This is a topic that I've gone over a lot in my mind.
Firstly, the easiest way to get people interested in sixes is NOT to make them play it, it's to show them something relating to sixes - to show them what TF2 can be when it's played in the 6v6 style.
I don't know how much things have changed, but back in the day when all I did, in relation to tf2, was pub, I was at least loosely aware of who TLR was, and B4nny - I imagine the profiles of certain Invite players' names has increased due to highlander and the wide swath of the community that knows people who have or are playing HL.
The best thing we can do is to advertise - a bit like Kissme said, but there are other ways than going in public servers with a # name, especially since I doubt many people actually go to websites they see in hashtags, and I imagine some server populations would be pretty turned off by somebody having an advert bind or at least be suspicious of it.
Like I've said in the past - the best thing to do is for somebody officially associated with tf.tv to reach out to pub communities and get them to advertise tf.tv or if they're really active, the MOTW directly to their communities. Obviously trying to get Valve to give us a hand would be nice too - but I doubt that'll happen.
Then we just have to have a good stream set up and we're gold.
Frag videos are helpful too, folks really need to start dropping adverts in their frag videos, because oodles of people watch frag videos.
People who have no innate interest in 6s aren't going to go out of their way to struggle with all the crappiness that comes with starting out, we have to hook them on the comp scene by making them aware of the products tf.tv provides, and in turn turning out quality products. Then an extremely small portion of those individuals will actually try out sixes and intend to stick with it for a long period of time.
Firstly, the easiest way to get people interested in sixes is NOT to make them play it, it's to show them something relating to sixes - to show them what TF2 can be when it's played in the 6v6 style.
I don't know how much things have changed, but back in the day when all I did, in relation to tf2, was pub, I was at least loosely aware of who TLR was, and B4nny - I imagine the profiles of certain Invite players' names has increased due to highlander and the wide swath of the community that knows people who have or are playing HL.
The best thing we can do is to advertise - a bit like Kissme said, but there are other ways than going in public servers with a # name, especially since I doubt many people actually go to websites they see in hashtags, and I imagine some server populations would be pretty turned off by somebody having an advert bind or at least be suspicious of it.
Like I've said in the past - the best thing to do is for somebody officially associated with tf.tv to reach out to pub communities and get them to advertise tf.tv or if they're really active, the MOTW directly to their communities. Obviously trying to get Valve to give us a hand would be nice too - but I doubt that'll happen.
Then we just have to have a good stream set up and we're gold.
Frag videos are helpful too, folks really need to start dropping adverts in their frag videos, because oodles of people watch frag videos.
People who have no innate interest in 6s aren't going to go out of their way to struggle with all the crappiness that comes with starting out, we have to hook them on the comp scene by making them aware of the products tf.tv provides, and in turn turning out quality products. Then an extremely small portion of those individuals will actually try out sixes and intend to stick with it for a long period of time.
Yodonewbie mix-ups - same stuff, player who participating in this events already has competitive mindset.
Newbie mixes are designed specifically for people who know nothing about 6v6.
Newbie mixes are designed specifically for people who know nothing about 6v6.