i'll see if i can get dudes to run some pugs on these.

i like sigma's list except i think dustbowl is batshit retarded for 6's.

mainline would be better if it wasn't for last....uphill battle on a fuckin pipe. turtle last x10000000000. maybe if someone fixed it up a bit. but the last version was awful with the trains in middle blockin off each side

follower was backcap city. mid fight was unpredictable which i liked but the yard was impossible to hold and led to a lot of crazy stalemates inside 2. and yeah i think mainline mid was too awkward and the rest of it was kinda long.

killing i think that list is fine. i'd like to see a ctf map that isn't terrible but we've tried pro_turbine like every season and it never makes the vote so whatevs. probably not quite there yet.

hoping to see koth ashville. if that happened i'd be incredibly satisfied with the rotation. viaduct would be my least favorite at that point but that's only because i fucking hate snipers, koth is generally really fun and exciting.

I like those candidates. A standin comeback would be great -- especially now that my ugly partial-cap idea now gives you spawn disadvantage (reduces the amount of time it's a good idea from ~40% to ~1%), and it's a really exciting map to play/watch/cast.

Just a word of warning: don't put on your rose-colored glasses for old maps like yukon, mainline, freight, follower, well, waste. There are some arguments for their inclusion, particularly since they weren't universally disliked and not having 2 heavies/sandvich/natascha fixes some of their problems. However, the maps themselves largely haven't changed (the "new" freight fixes nothing, pro_well is a joke), so many of the problems will still be there: mainline last will still be a death fortress, follower yard will still never be held, there still won't be ammo on 2, the reverse dropdown (aka backcap 2 always) is still there, waste 2 will still be impossible to attack... there were enough reasons for their removal that they'll still be negatively received.

when i think of good comp maps i think of how often shit will be backcapped and how "random" shit is going to be.

freight trains are good for a chuckle but having them block pushes or kill people is really really fucking stupid for a competitive fps. also water everywhere makes it obnoxious. and its really choked outside of middle.

well is water and backcaps and sniping and a retarded last point and all sorts of other things. shutter doors and sticky bombs don't mix. being right clicked to death is not exciting.

Scorpio made this CTF map a while back. It was extremely fun to pug but i dont know how it would go in 6's

http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=11635

a walkthrough of his Halloween (mann manor-esque) version of Vitalism

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcRcNZAYgao

i actually played a highlander lobby or two of vitalism. seemed sort of interesting but it ends up being a lot of spawncamping :|

standin would be great if they made it so the cap time reverted alot faster, pretty much the only major issue with the map

What was wrong with warmfront? I think it had the best mid of any map because there was something for every class. I don't think last was any worse than snakewater last. Can't believe people voted it out so we could play cp "literal shit map" ashville.

it seems to happen a lot with new maps, i think the general thought process during map development is no one wants you to be able to just roll last. so they make it some what of a challenge in turn making it a turtle fest for the team on defense. which makes pushes a fucking nightmare. if that makes $ense

no standin please

I loved standin. I thought it was a good map and I'm pretty sure that scorpio updated it a little bit.

Sharing opinions is fine but everybody needs to scrim these maps and decide what they like for themselves. Fucking do it please.

cp_metalworks
cp_foundry
cp_mainline
cp_standin
cp_yukon
koth_ashville
koth_granary

cp_metalworks
koth_granary
cp_standin
cp_warmfront
koth_ashville

man, put standin back in and I'd want to come play again

Yukon will never ever make a return

KILLING PLEASE NOT STANDIN PLEASE.

EDIT: i think mainline could do okay in the vote rather than standin

I'd be very hesitant to recommend maps that have been voted out in previous seasons. Like Sigma mentioned, older maps have this Michael Jackson Legacy effect where people look ever-so-fondly upon them after they're gone, forgetting how much of a pain they were when they were with us. ;)

I think Badlands, Granary, Snakewater, Gullywash, and Process are generally solid and should stay, and I think the community generally agrees. To me, five 5cp maps are enough to keep the regular season paced well, the playoff pool densely populated, and the LAN exciting.

I think one King of the Hill map is plenty. Personally I believe Viaduct is severely worse than koth_ashville and should be replaced, but I would rather see Viaduct alone than both maps in one season.

I think one Attack/Defend map is perfect. Gravelpit is the single most strategy-intense map in the game by a significant margin; there is no rational argument to remove it.

That leaves room for one more map. Of the multitude of game modes TF2 has to offer, only three are represented here. While this is symptomatic of the elitism, snobbishness, and general resistance to change present in a large portion of the NA 6v6 community (sorry, just keeping it real), I believe more players are becoming more open to new ideas (e.g., Standin).

So, without further ado, I present to you the three words nobody ever seems to want to hear:

What about Payload?

payload is ridiculously slow paced. you have to put 2 people on the cart for a LONG period of time. i felt so retarded in hl just riding that fucker while my team actually fights.

i agree with you about viaduct being worse than ashville.

if i picked a rotation it would be:
badlands
granary
gpit
gully
snake
process
kothashville
standin

just a random question that I ask a lot

why is it that every time a custom mapper makes one really good map, they never make a good map ever again?

arnold made gullywash, sick map. bazillion is atrocious and croissants p bad too.

chojje made snakewater. quay isnt very good.

scorpio made process. cp_auschwitz followed.

i'm sure da vinci painted some shitty stuff too

no one giving metalworks a chaaaaaaaaaaance

I don't understand why we can't vote out/vote in more than 1 map each time around. If we're trying to make the best rotation we can, then wouldn't it make more sense to do that as soon as possible? The only counter to this idea would be taking more time to learn more maps, but I can't see that being a real problem.

Right now we have Gullywash, Viaduct, Snakewater, Gravelpit, Granary, Ashville, Badlands and Process. 1 of those maps people definitely want out. Another one of those maps people would be just fine not playing. Let's just say, for the sake of what I'm trying to explain, that people wanted both Freight and Yukon back. Well, most of us have played those maps and having to learn them all over again wouldn't be a problem. But now let's replace Freight and Yukon with two newer maps. I'm sure as hell we are capable of learning only two maps without it impacting a team's ability to play it when the time comes.

#50 Didn't Scorpio also make Metalworks? Pretty good map too.

cp_prolane and cp_foundary would be cool if hey only allowed 1 heavy

cp_yukon
cp_follower
cp_standin
koth_ashville

oh wait

what the FUCK

Scorpio's made some other fun maps that we pugged on recently. We should scrim some of those more too.

I've played foundry like 3-4 times and it was horrible every time.

Follower is too big kind of like asheville IMO.

I haven't played koth gran or asheville, and those sound good for now, but personally, I'd like to see more stop watch stuff in the ESEA rotation. Maybe another A/D map?

Is there even a new A/D map around? I don't think someone digging the grave of an older A/D map that has never really been tested and probably isn't finished as a good idea.

if profront is finished, that should be in the map vote too