-Design it with the way KOTH is played right now in 6s in mind(or HL if you're designing this for them too).
-Sniper sightlines are OK, but within reason of course. There are some really good snipers out there. They should be rewarded, but they shouldn't be able to carry their team.
-Jump routes for soldiers are fun and make bombs exciting. Use ramps instead of staircases (allows rampslides and in general staircases are a pain).
-The way lakeside, viaduct, and, to an extent, arctic are layed out has sort of become the generic koth map: Spawn area, go through chokes to reach a yard, go through chokes to reach the valley before the point, which has things obstructing it so you access it through ramps/stairways on either side. There's also a whole balcony system for snipers and enemy soldiers, and there's a little room off to the side of the point for flankers. I don't know if you want to follow that, but it would be your best bet for a easy-to-make balanced map. Alternatives are cool, but obviously harvest, king, etc. are pretty poorly designed.

I can give you a lengthy explanation of why that vanilla style of koth map works best if you need it, especially if you don't plan to use it because you should keep the basic principles pretty much the same.

I'd vote for a visual style like 2fort and dustbowl. It's the style of all the original maps but none of the koth maps really have it right now.

Now that's helpful! Thanks a bunch, I'll start sketching out some designs.

like koobadoobs, it would be nice to have a different style without a house/building in the middle between spawn and mid.

I like the "longer" rollouts to mid. You should try and get an Invite/Prem demo play on your map, once you get the standard layout. This way they can look for rollouts (slides, healthpacks, etc.). I believe that this would help it become more competitive if there was an intended rollout for soldier/demo.

make two versions

one in which the midpoint is a spire

please don't make it like lakeside. it's the least fun koth i've touched.

Specifically what didn't you like about it? It is extremely similar to viaduct except snipers are a bit stronger on lakeside and soldiers are a bit weaker, and I guess scouts are a bit weaker too with all the flat open ground. Is that the problem? Is it too big? I think it's easier to make a good map if you explain why a map is bad rather than saying what maps are bad.

you just stated every reason why its bad
and also the fact that there is water, even if its just a small amount
water should not be in comp maps

Yes. It doesn't matter whether the water changes gameplay or not. Make sure not to havy anything with a texture on it that indicates the presence of water because embodies the spirit of Xenu and will eat competitive players alive.

is lakeside that shitty koth map with the huge staircases and the water???

Right, that was directed to the mapmaker, I'm just trying to help while reminding people that saying "this map sucks" helps no one.

OP, beware, many comp players are extremely touchy when you mention new maps or anything about changing the way they play their granlands, so don't take it to heart if a bunch of people shitpost or insult you or your map.

Anyways, thanks for supporting tf2 in this manner, it's always nice to see new maps in comp play

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=tf2+lakeside

you missed my point

You can have staircases that are smoothed over like in baloo that still allow rampslides.
Or you can have ramps that aren't smoothed so they are really staircases and piss people off (don't actually do that).

I guess it'd follow the general guidelines of viaduct (if you make this for 6s anyways) just like most 5cps have around the same format (spire on 2nd, valleys, houses, trains, IT rooms)

So like maybe a house with some sort of a china with a valley, a cliffside and/or other way to get into the point.

make snakewater 2nd into a koth map, keep cheese and africa and the trains, and fences etc

don't make retarded geography that negates splash

Put in a bridge/catwalk like in viaduct which a soldier can jump to from the point to chase people who are backing out

I have no idea how you would implement this into a map aesthetically(maybe part of a fountain or something?), but a strip of water deep enough to float in with a ramp on either end(like a jump map) as part of an alternate rollout/flank or something would be awesome. You might end up having to make sure it doesn't allow soldier super jumps from anywhere but the ramp area at the end by putting some sort of block above it.

Cheers, thanks for the ideas so far guys, really helpful!

It needs a hidden pugloaf.

I kind of really really want to see what a koth map with a spire for cap would play like. Someone should do this.

the map will need big sightlines, cause if there weren't any, a heavy could just stand on point with a dispenser and shoot down anyone

yea. trying to picture what the surrounding area would look like. Wouldn't want to hold right on the spire for obvious reasons. maybe ill try to figure out hammer cuz this sounds like a fun project.