AzraelThat's a little melodramatic. Even with the nerf, the Escape Plan is far and away still the most useful soldier melee. These same gripes were raised when the GRU got nerfed and some people switched to the Fists of Steel. The thing is, speed with a chance of death trumps slowness every time.
If anything, we ought to complain that Valve hasn't changed other soldier melees enough (Zatoichi anyone?) to actually warrant their use over the Escape Plan. As it stands, it's still an upgrade from the stock shovel.
Except there's a difference between receiving damage as minicrits with 300 hp and 30 hp.
[quote=Azrael]
That's a little melodramatic. Even with the nerf, the Escape Plan is far and away still the most useful soldier melee. These same gripes were raised when the GRU got nerfed and some people switched to the Fists of Steel. The thing is, speed with a chance of death trumps slowness every time.
If anything, we ought to complain that Valve hasn't changed other soldier melees enough (Zatoichi anyone?) to actually warrant their use over the Escape Plan. As it stands, it's still an upgrade from the stock shovel.[/quote]
Except there's a difference between receiving damage as minicrits with 300 hp and 30 hp.
zigzterExcept there's a difference between receiving damage as minicrits with 300 hp and 30 hp.
Not when you're trying to escape on low health after your medic dies.
[quote=zigzter]
Except there's a difference between receiving damage as minicrits with 300 hp and 30 hp.[/quote]
Not when you're trying to escape on low health after your medic dies.
AznBoiz6s banned pretty much most of the unlocks so I don't think Valve give a shit about 6s and its metagame
Valve should care about 6s as it's the most balanced way to play TF2 with people who actually understand this game.
[quote=AznBoiz]6s banned pretty much most of the unlocks so I don't think Valve give a shit about 6s and its metagame[/quote]
Valve should care about 6s as it's the most balanced way to play TF2 with people who actually understand this game.
my question to the escape plan nerf is this. has valve forgotten altogether about the equalizer? if there is a weapon that is never equipped that would be it. why is it not getting a buff??
my question to the escape plan nerf is this. has valve forgotten altogether about the equalizer? if there is a weapon that is never equipped that would be it. why is it not getting a buff??
AzraelkirbyI worded what I meant wrong. I meant they nerfed the Equalizer into a good melee, then they further nerfed it into the threshold of "useful" and "useless".
That's a little melodramatic. Even with the nerf, the Escape Plan is far and away still the most useful soldier melee. These same gripes were raised when the GRU got nerfed and some people switched to the Fists of Steel. The thing is, speed with a chance of death trumps slowness every time.
If anything, we ought to complain that Valve hasn't changed other soldier melees enough (Zatoichi anyone?) to actually warrant their use over the Escape Plan. As it stands, it's still an upgrade from the stock shovel.
You can't be comparing the escape plan with the shovel like the shovel is the holy grail of balance... Plenty of classes, or better, let me rephrase, every class so far got melee unlocks that are direct upgrade to stock.
90% of pyros run axtinguisher, is it good? yes. Better than fire axe? yes. was it nerfed? no.
If they added a mark for death or 30% damage vulnerability on wearer or something to any other class melee upgrades (like the ubersaw or axtinguisher) then the world would turn upside down, but because it's the solly it's like, Get fucked, l2p, lrn2positioning, madcuzbad, lrn2jump, etc etc....
[quote=Azrael][quote=kirby]
I worded what I meant wrong. I meant they nerfed the Equalizer into a good melee, then they further nerfed it into the threshold of "useful" and "useless".[/quote]
That's a little melodramatic. Even with the nerf, the Escape Plan is far and away still the most useful soldier melee. These same gripes were raised when the GRU got nerfed and some people switched to the Fists of Steel. The thing is, speed with a chance of death trumps slowness every time.
If anything, we ought to complain that Valve hasn't changed other soldier melees enough (Zatoichi anyone?) to actually warrant their use over the Escape Plan. As it stands, it's still an upgrade from the stock shovel.[/quote]
You can't be comparing the escape plan with the shovel like the shovel is the holy grail of balance... Plenty of classes, or better, let me rephrase, every class so far got melee unlocks that are direct upgrade to stock.
90% of pyros run axtinguisher, is it good? yes. Better than fire axe? yes. was it nerfed? no.
If they added a mark for death or 30% damage vulnerability on wearer or something to any other class melee upgrades (like the ubersaw or axtinguisher) then the world would turn upside down, but because it's the solly it's like, Get fucked, l2p, lrn2positioning, madcuzbad, lrn2jump, etc etc....
The escape plan is still good, you just cant use it as a get out jail free card every time you fuck up.
The escape plan is still good, you just cant use it as a get out jail free card every time you fuck up.
drdonutmanThe escape plan is still good, you just cant use it as a get out jail free card every time you fuck up.
Valve should put in a hitscan focused class that moves at 133% speed, then they wouldn't have to nerf the EP like this.
[quote=drdonutman]The escape plan is still good, you just cant use it as a get out jail free card every time you fuck up.[/quote]
Valve should put in a hitscan focused class that moves at 133% speed, then they wouldn't have to nerf the EP like this.
KanecoIf they added a mark for death or 30% damage vulnerability on wearer or something to any other class melee upgrades (like the ubersaw or axtinguisher) then the world would turn upside down, but because it's the solly it's like, Get fucked, l2p, lrn2positioning, madcuzbad, lrn2jump, etc etc....
Should've made some of the melee weapons like basher, ubersaw, axtinguisher, EP, and paintrain stock IMO.
[quote=Kaneco]If they added a mark for death or 30% damage vulnerability on wearer or something to any other class melee upgrades (like the ubersaw or axtinguisher) then the world would turn upside down, but because it's the solly it's like, Get fucked, l2p, lrn2positioning, madcuzbad, lrn2jump, etc etc....[/quote]
Should've made some of the melee weapons like basher, ubersaw, axtinguisher, EP, and paintrain stock IMO.
Has anyone tried using the tf_hud_show_servertimelimit 1 command yet? I can't get it to display on my hud (broeselhud) so I'm guessing that my hud needs to be updated/modified to show this?
My hud is packed into a vpk if that makes any difference.
Has anyone tried using the tf_hud_show_servertimelimit 1 command yet? I can't get it to display on my hud (broeselhud) so I'm guessing that my hud needs to be updated/modified to show this?
My hud is packed into a vpk if that makes any difference.
crespiHas anyone tried using the tf_hud_show_servertimelimit 1 command yet? I can't get it to display on my hud (broeselhud) so I'm guessing that my hud needs to be updated/modified to show this?
My hud is packed into a vpk if that makes any difference.
rays edited it in; I'm not a HUD editor but he showed the whole process on stream and it looked relatively simple. His newest version has it in. I think the exact name is something akin to "ServerTimeLimitLabel" or something along those lines.
[quote=crespi]Has anyone tried using the tf_hud_show_servertimelimit 1 command yet? I can't get it to display on my hud (broeselhud) so I'm guessing that my hud needs to be updated/modified to show this?
My hud is packed into a vpk if that makes any difference.[/quote]
rays edited it in; I'm not a HUD editor but he showed the whole process on stream and it looked relatively simple. His newest version has it in. I think the exact name is something akin to "ServerTimeLimitLabel" or something along those lines.
With escape plan drawn, you take 35% more damage + no falloff. You also take the extra knockback, which can actually be used to your advantage with a bit of smart timing. The extra damage effectively gives you 26 HP when at 40 health and EP drawn. The only times that you'll die compared to when you'dve otherwise lived is when you're taking shotgun chip (which now does ~7 damage compared to 3) or when you get clipped by a rocket, which can do 24 damage minimum at maximum falloff + splash before crits, but will now do 60 minimum. So the nerf really only affects you if you are getting consistently clipped by explosives at long range, but these explosives would've put you at 10-20 health anyway, and you could argue that if you were clipped after losing 150 health and running away, you probably deserve to die.
It's not a very effective nerf, since rarely are you running around with enough health to tank a minimum damage splash, although it does make you a little weaker to scouts and shotguns, but the way the spread works out, I don't think it'll affect most situations where a scout is chasing you too severely.
With escape plan drawn, you take 35% more damage + no falloff. You also take the extra knockback, which can actually be used to your advantage with a bit of smart timing. The extra damage effectively gives you 26 HP when at 40 health and EP drawn. The only times that you'll die compared to when you'dve otherwise lived is when you're taking shotgun chip (which now does ~7 damage compared to 3) or when you get clipped by a rocket, which can do 24 damage minimum at maximum falloff + splash before crits, but will now do 60 minimum. So the nerf really only affects you if you are getting consistently clipped by explosives at long range, but these explosives would've put you at 10-20 health anyway, and you could argue that if you were clipped after losing 150 health and running away, you probably deserve to die.
It's not a very effective nerf, since rarely are you running around with enough health to tank a minimum damage splash, although it does make you a little weaker to scouts and shotguns, but the way the spread works out, I don't think it'll affect most situations where a scout is chasing you too severely.
AzraelkirbyI worded what I meant wrong. I meant they nerfed the Equalizer into a good melee, then they further nerfed it into the threshold of "useful" and "useless".
That's a little melodramatic. Even with the nerf, the Escape Plan is far and away still the most useful soldier melee. These same gripes were raised when the GRU got nerfed and some people switched to the Fists of Steel. The thing is, speed with a chance of death trumps slowness every time.
If anything, we ought to complain that Valve hasn't changed other soldier melees enough (Zatoichi anyone?) to actually warrant their use over the Escape Plan. As it stands, it's still an upgrade from the stock shovel.
There's a difference between "speed with a chance of death" and "speed when you're pretty hurt and a good chance of dying". The latter is more so in the competitive scene. Yes, 95% of soldiers who used the EP are still going to use it because a) they're not Market Gardener users and B) there's nothing else to use.
My point is this nerf was unnecessary as I assume you would agree, and that any further nerfing would more than likely make it useless.
[quote=Azrael][quote=kirby]
I worded what I meant wrong. I meant they nerfed the Equalizer into a good melee, then they further nerfed it into the threshold of "useful" and "useless".[/quote]
That's a little melodramatic. Even with the nerf, the Escape Plan is far and away still the most useful soldier melee. These same gripes were raised when the GRU got nerfed and some people switched to the Fists of Steel. The thing is, speed with a chance of death trumps slowness every time.
If anything, we ought to complain that Valve hasn't changed other soldier melees enough (Zatoichi anyone?) to actually warrant their use over the Escape Plan. As it stands, it's still an upgrade from the stock shovel.[/quote]
There's a difference between "speed with a chance of death" and "speed when you're pretty hurt and a good chance of dying". The latter is more so in the competitive scene. Yes, 95% of soldiers who used the EP are still going to use it because a) they're not Market Gardener users and B) there's nothing else to use.
My point is this nerf was unnecessary as I assume you would agree, and that any further nerfing would more than likely make it useless.
Not about weapon balance, but I haven't seen it noted yet. Apparently itemtest received a hidden update with a mini resupply room so you can change class without killing yourself for sake of ease. Convenient for quickly loading to test things like cfgs and hud elements.
Not about weapon balance, but I haven't seen it noted yet. Apparently itemtest received a hidden update with a mini resupply room so you can change class without killing yourself for sake of ease. Convenient for quickly loading to test things like cfgs and hud elements.
kirbyMy point is this nerf was unnecessary as I assume you would agree, and that any further nerfing would more than likely make it useless.
I agree with this central point but IMO it's not as big of a deal as some people are making out (rip TF2, rip soldier etc types of posts are mostly what I'm taking issue with). The main thing is, Valve should buff other soldier melees to make them as attractive as the Escape Plan or at least not totally worthless. Let the Zatoichi be able to collect heads on soldier or something, I dunno.
[quote=kirby]
My point is this nerf was unnecessary as I assume you would agree, and that any further nerfing would more than likely make it useless.[/quote]
I agree with this central point but IMO it's not as big of a deal as some people are making out (rip TF2, rip soldier etc types of posts are mostly what I'm taking issue with). The main thing is, Valve should buff other soldier melees to make them as attractive as the Escape Plan or at least not totally worthless. Let the Zatoichi be able to collect heads on soldier or something, I dunno.
Whip is attractive, but is so powerful in a certain way that it's banned for just that reason. Pain train is attractive and balanced, but makes him less powerful vs scouts which is exactly what he doesn't need (some soldiers use it regardless because it's nice and balanced). Market gardener is attractive, but doesn't increase soldier's utility in any way. Zatoichi is an obvious demoman-oriented weapon they decided to put on soldier probably because of medieval mode, and has a downside that is so sterilizing nobody in their right mind would use it in a serious non-medieval match. Equalizer isn't attractive because relying on its combat advantages is naive when you have such good guns, so trading off the capabilities of a better utility melee for it is pointless at least and detrimental at best.
Maybe merging the equalizer and paintrain?
Whip is attractive, but is so powerful in a certain way that it's banned for just that reason. Pain train is attractive and balanced, but makes him less powerful vs scouts which is exactly what he doesn't need (some soldiers use it regardless because it's nice and balanced). Market gardener is attractive, but doesn't increase soldier's utility in any way. Zatoichi is an obvious demoman-oriented weapon they decided to put on soldier probably because of medieval mode, and has a downside that is so sterilizing nobody in their right mind would use it in a serious non-medieval match. Equalizer isn't attractive because relying on its combat advantages is naive when you have such good guns, so trading off the capabilities of a better utility melee for it is pointless at least and detrimental at best.
Maybe merging the equalizer and paintrain?
DelusionalBuffoonAznBoiz6s banned pretty much most of the unlocks so I don't think Valve give a shit about 6s and its metagame
Valve should care about 6s as it's the most balanced way to play TF2 with people who actually understand this game.
very, very, very honest question: why.
playing devil's advocate here...but why *SHOULD* they care about 6s? do 6s players typically buy items in the store? do 6s players typically bring more players to the game? what do 6s players bring to the table that makes it where valve *SHOULD* care?
[quote=DelusionalBuffoon][quote=AznBoiz]6s banned pretty much most of the unlocks so I don't think Valve give a shit about 6s and its metagame[/quote]
Valve should care about 6s as it's the most balanced way to play TF2 with people who actually understand this game.[/quote]
very, very, very honest question: why.
playing devil's advocate here...but why *SHOULD* they care about 6s? do 6s players typically buy items in the store? do 6s players typically bring more players to the game? what do 6s players bring to the table that makes it where valve *SHOULD* care?
TheManWithNoNameDelusionalBuffoonAznBoiz6s banned pretty much most of the unlocks so I don't think Valve give a shit about 6s and its metagame
Valve should care about 6s as it's the most balanced way to play TF2 with people who actually understand this game.
very, very, very honest question: why.
playing devil's advocate here...but why *SHOULD* they care about 6s? do 6s players typically buy items in the store? do 6s players typically bring more players to the game? what do 6s players bring to the table that makes it where valve *SHOULD* care?
They shouldn't. People seem to forget 6s is basically a made-up gamemode the community created
after going through a variety of different setups to arrive to it. The game wasn't designed for it, the game was designed for pubs. Its always been strange to me to see people call 6s "true tf2" when it was never meant to be that. Downfrags ahoy!
[quote=TheManWithNoName][quote=DelusionalBuffoon][quote=AznBoiz]6s banned pretty much most of the unlocks so I don't think Valve give a shit about 6s and its metagame[/quote]
Valve should care about 6s as it's the most balanced way to play TF2 with people who actually understand this game.[/quote]
very, very, very honest question: why.
playing devil's advocate here...but why *SHOULD* they care about 6s? do 6s players typically buy items in the store? do 6s players typically bring more players to the game? what do 6s players bring to the table that makes it where valve *SHOULD* care?[/quote]
They shouldn't. People seem to forget 6s is basically a made-up gamemode the community created
after going through a variety of different setups to arrive to it. The game wasn't designed for it, the game was designed for pubs. Its always been strange to me to see people call 6s "true tf2" when it was never meant to be that. Downfrags ahoy!
Valve is probaly goin to support HL because less items are banned and Robin want to see them 'Sick Strat'
Another question: Does the leagues banned any of the Banners? The new update seem to make the banner a bit more useful now imo, the backup can help the team push into the enemy's sentry and hopefully not use Uber, or the Conch to help your team push up faster and denied area.
Valve is probaly goin to support HL because less items are banned and Robin want to see them 'Sick Strat'
Another question: Does the leagues banned any of the Banners? The new update seem to make the banner a bit more useful now imo, the backup can help the team push into the enemy's sentry and hopefully not use Uber, or the Conch to help your team push up faster and denied area.
r4ptureThey shouldn't. People seem to forget 6s is basically a made-up gamemode the community created
Yeah....In beta along with 8v8 before the games release...This game is so horribly broken when people try to figure out its meta that comp had to balance it out itself
r4ptureafter going through a variety of different setups to arrive to it. The game wasn't designed for it, the game was designed for pubs. Its always been strange to me to see people call 6s "true tf2" when it was never meant to be that. Downfrags ahoy!
This game is made of generalists and specialists...Literally 6s IS TF2 (with competitive balance in mind)
AznBoizValve is probaly goin to support HL because less items are banned
They are supporting the wrong format entirely.
[quote=r4pture]They shouldn't. People seem to forget 6s is basically a made-up gamemode the community created[/quote]
Yeah....In beta along with 8v8 before the games release...This game is so horribly broken when people try to figure out its meta that comp had to balance it out itself
[quote=r4pture]after going through a variety of different setups to arrive to it. The game wasn't designed for it, the game was designed for pubs. Its always been strange to me to see people call 6s "true tf2" when it was never meant to be that. Downfrags ahoy![/quote]
This game is made of generalists and specialists...Literally 6s IS TF2 (with competitive balance in mind)
[quote=AznBoiz]Valve is probaly goin to support HL because less items are banned[/quote]
They are supporting the wrong format entirely.
DelusionalBuffoonAznBoizValve is probaly goin to support HL because less items are banned
They are supporting the wrong format entirely.
please expand on this -- why is it the "wrong format entirely?"
what is it that makes 6s the "right" format? what is it that makes HL the "right" format?
who cares WHAT is being specifically supported as long as valve continues to support TF2?
(full disclosure: i do not play 6s or HL)
DelusionalBuffoonLiterally 6s IS TF2
well, no. LITERALLY TF2 is pubs. the % of players who play comp vs the % of players who have never even heard of comp is drastically skewed in the direction of the latter. the % of players who have no interest in ever playing comp is significantly larger than the % of players who are interested in it/watching it/playing it
if 6s players want to both stay the dominant format in TF2 and want to continue to draw players to its format, they need to stop acting like they are the best/only real format, the game is figured out, any changes they do not agree with are stupid (like the EP change or the closed window at BL mid), etc
just enjoy the damn game. be glad it is still supported at all. learn to deal with change. stop acting like those who enjoy the game beyond just 6s are below you/useless.
if 6s stays the same with whitelist, the same loadouts/rollouts for almost all of players/classes/teams it will continue to stagnate. watching 2 teams running almost the exact same loadouts (pocket: RL/shotgun/EP, roamer: RL/gunboats/EP, stock demo, scout with scattergun/pistol/basher and medic) and following the same rollouts is simply not that enjoyable after seeing it for the 416876414th time.
that is one of the reasons it is interesting to see things like tri-hards double gunboats or CW using the winger over the pistol or tviq run sniper for most of a round or the european team (broder, i think?) that runs kritz as they do...
[quote=DelusionalBuffoon]
[quote=AznBoiz]Valve is probaly goin to support HL because less items are banned[/quote]
They are supporting the wrong format entirely.[/quote]
please expand on this -- why is it the "wrong format entirely?"
what is it that makes 6s the "right" format? what is it that makes HL the "right" format?
who cares WHAT is being specifically supported as long as valve continues to support TF2?
(full disclosure: i do not play 6s or HL)
[quote=DelusionalBuffoon]
Literally 6s IS TF2
[/quote]
well, no. [b]LITERALLY[/b] TF2 is pubs. the % of players who play comp vs the % of players who have never even heard of comp is drastically skewed in the direction of the latter. the % of players who have no interest in ever playing comp is significantly larger than the % of players who are interested in it/watching it/playing it
if 6s players want to both stay the dominant format in TF2 and want to continue to draw players to its format, they need to stop acting like they are the best/only real format, the game is figured out, any changes they do not agree with are stupid (like the EP change or the closed window at BL mid), etc
just enjoy the damn game. be glad it is still supported at all. learn to deal with change. stop acting like those who enjoy the game beyond just 6s are below you/useless.
if 6s stays the same with whitelist, the same loadouts/rollouts for almost all of players/classes/teams it will continue to stagnate. watching 2 teams running almost the exact same loadouts (pocket: RL/shotgun/EP, roamer: RL/gunboats/EP, stock demo, scout with scattergun/pistol/basher and medic) and following the same rollouts is simply not that enjoyable after seeing it for the 416876414th time.
that is one of the reasons it is interesting to see things like tri-hards double gunboats or CW using the winger over the pistol or tviq run sniper for most of a round or the european team (broder, i think?) that runs kritz as they do...
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=34656865&postcount=98
Valve has been doing whatever the hell they've wanted since beta.
I don't even understand how random crits even made it out of beta.
DDS and the Battalions back up are banned because they're OP with teamwork...what does valve do...buff them.
The new DDS is already being called OP.
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3148233
History seems to be repeating itself
Valve wants a change in the competitive meta because it's "stale" (6v6 IS THE COMPETITIVE META).
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=34656865&postcount=98
Valve has been doing whatever the hell they've wanted since beta.
I don't even understand how random crits even made it out of beta.
DDS and the Battalions back up are banned because they're OP with teamwork...what does valve do...buff them.
The new DDS is already being called OP.
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3148233
History seems to be repeating itself
Valve wants a change in the competitive meta because it's "stale" (6v6 IS THE COMPETITIVE META).
manacrespiHas anyone tried using the tf_hud_show_servertimelimit 1 command yet? I can't get it to display on my hud (broeselhud) so I'm guessing that my hud needs to be updated/modified to show this?
My hud is packed into a vpk if that makes any difference.
rays edited it in; I'm not a HUD editor but he showed the whole process on stream and it looked relatively simple. His newest version has it in. I think the exact name is something akin to "ServerTimeLimitLabel" or something along those lines.
Thanks mana!
[quote=mana][quote=crespi]Has anyone tried using the tf_hud_show_servertimelimit 1 command yet? I can't get it to display on my hud (broeselhud) so I'm guessing that my hud needs to be updated/modified to show this?
My hud is packed into a vpk if that makes any difference.[/quote]
rays edited it in; I'm not a HUD editor but he showed the whole process on stream and it looked relatively simple. His newest version has it in. I think the exact name is something akin to "ServerTimeLimitLabel" or something along those lines.[/quote]
Thanks mana!
I don't even understand how random crits even made it out of beta.
This is an example of Valve caring more about # of players than competitive balance.
Let's say you're a new TF2 player. You get wrecked pretty quickly because you don't know what's going on. You get frustrated, all your efforts are futile UNTIL
BAM
Crocket. 3 people dead. "WTF just happened?" you ask yourself. You don't know, but you must have done something right. "This is cool." you say. You keep playing. You get more crockets. "OMG This is amazing." you say as people better than you die left and right.
You would have quit. TF2 is too difficult without free kills when you're new.
SO:
Random crits keeps newbies motivated to keep playing the game until they're good enough to not need them.
Now, you're an experienced player. You understand all the weps, the correct strategies, you pretty much never die, you're the best. You're on a kill streak, 13 kills from spawncamping BLUs on Dustbowl. You're getting excited, you've never gotten past 15 kills in one life, you're almost there THEN
BAM
Crocket. You and your medic are dead. "WTF?! That noob ruined my streak!" you say. "He's never gotten a kill before and he's been playing for 10 minutes! He didn't deserve that at all!" you get angry. You spawn again and keep trying, but you end up dissatisfied because you can't beat your 15 kill streak record, and it's all random crits's fault.
But do you quit TF2?
No.
You keep playing and trying harder.
SO:
Random crits does nothing to make experienced players quit; it makes them have to work harder for their goals and maybe they'll end up getting that new record with actual skill rather than mindless spawntrapping.
My point?
Random crits keeps new players playing and old players working harder. It makes everyone stay in the game longer because they don't get discouraged when they're bad and they don't get bored of being unstoppable when they're good.
It's the most genius system of keeping people in a game I've ever seen, and it's one of the definitive characteristics of this game that make it the best FPS out there right now.
[quote]
I don't even understand how random crits even made it out of beta.
[/quote]
This is an example of Valve caring more about # of players than competitive balance.
Let's say you're a new TF2 player. You get wrecked pretty quickly because you don't know what's going on. You get frustrated, all your efforts are futile UNTIL
BAM
Crocket. 3 people dead. "WTF just happened?" you ask yourself. You don't know, but you must have done something right. "This is cool." you say. You keep playing. You get more crockets. "OMG This is amazing." you say as people better than you die left and right.
You would have quit. TF2 is too difficult without free kills when you're new.
SO:
[b]Random crits keeps newbies motivated to keep playing the game until they're good enough to not need them.[/b]
Now, you're an experienced player. You understand all the weps, the correct strategies, you pretty much never die, you're the best. You're on a kill streak, 13 kills from spawncamping BLUs on Dustbowl. You're getting excited, you've never gotten past 15 kills in one life, you're almost there THEN
BAM
Crocket. You and your medic are dead. "WTF?! That noob ruined my streak!" you say. "He's never gotten a kill before and he's been playing for 10 minutes! He didn't deserve that at all!" you get angry. You spawn again and keep trying, but you end up dissatisfied because you can't beat your 15 kill streak record, and it's all random crits's fault.
But do you quit TF2?
No.
You keep playing and trying harder.
SO:
[b]Random crits does nothing to make experienced players quit; it makes them have to work harder for their goals[/b] and maybe they'll end up getting that new record with actual skill rather than mindless spawntrapping.
My point?
[b]Random crits keeps new players playing and old players working harder. It makes everyone stay in the game longer because they don't get discouraged when they're bad and they don't get bored of being unstoppable when they're good.[/b]
It's the most genius system of keeping people in a game I've ever seen, and it's one of the definitive characteristics of this game that make it the best FPS out there right now.
Just play heavy, engineer or pyro, to start.
It was generally agreed that random crits wasn't a good mechanic in beta.
Are you like an engie main or some shit?
Just play heavy, engineer or pyro, to start.
It was generally agreed that random crits wasn't a good mechanic in beta.
Are you like an engie main or some shit?
DelusionalBuffoonJust play heavy, engineer or pyro, to start.
It was generally agreed that random crits wasn't a good mechanic in beta.
Are you like an engie main or some shit?
New players can't be expected to know to pick those classes from the start.
and what does my main have to do with it?
[quote=DelusionalBuffoon]Just play heavy, engineer or pyro, to start.
It was generally agreed that random crits wasn't a good mechanic in beta.
Are you like an engie main or some shit?[/quote]
New players can't be expected to know to pick those classes from the start.
and what does my main have to do with it?
I definitely get the reasoning behind random crits in a pub setting. Random damage spread, however, is the most mind boggling idea in the world.
I definitely get the reasoning behind random crits in a pub setting. Random damage spread, however, is the most mind boggling idea in the world.
frknI definitely get the reasoning behind random crits in a pub setting. Random damage spread, however, is the most mind boggling idea in the world.
realism
[quote=frkn]I definitely get the reasoning behind random crits in a pub setting. Random damage spread, however, is the most mind boggling idea in the world.[/quote]
realism
frknI definitely get the reasoning behind random crits in a pub setting. Random damage spread, however, is the most mind boggling idea in the world.
It's basically random crits in a more passive way. Say you're new, and you take two rockets as soldier. In comp you'd be dead 100% of the time, but with random spread you'd have a chance for living with 2-10 health
it's dumb, but i see the idea behind it
[quote=frkn]I definitely get the reasoning behind random crits in a pub setting. Random damage spread, however, is the most mind boggling idea in the world.[/quote]
It's basically random crits in a more passive way. Say you're new, and you take two rockets as soldier. In comp you'd be dead 100% of the time, but with random spread you'd have a chance for living with 2-10 health
it's dumb, but i see the idea behind it
JClownfrknI definitely get the reasoning behind random crits in a pub setting. Random damage spread, however, is the most mind boggling idea in the world.
realism
are you implying that tf2 is realistic in any way
[quote=JClown][quote=frkn]I definitely get the reasoning behind random crits in a pub setting. Random damage spread, however, is the most mind boggling idea in the world.[/quote]
realism[/quote]
are you implying that tf2 is realistic in any way
KoobadoobsNew players can't be expected to know to pick those classes from the start.
and what does my main have to do with it?
They could read the manual, and practice offline, to get a general understanding of the classes. Bots play better than random pubs generally and most engie mains I've talked to for some reason have some similar arguments about random crits (for whatever reason)
[quote=Koobadoobs]New players can't be expected to know to pick those classes from the start.
and what does my main have to do with it?[/quote]
They could read the manual, and practice offline, to get a general understanding of the classes. Bots play better than random pubs generally and most engie mains I've talked to for some reason have some similar arguments about random crits (for whatever reason)