honestly I don't know why the op got -fragged, it is a pertinent question, I guess blind hate for something is much easier than to rationally discuss it

looking for a mid-high im pyro for next season
add me

direct point-blank reflects are 151, which means you'd have to flame the med down before you reflected

it could happen but it sounds really, really hard

seems better against uber really, because you can stall the hell out of them once you force, unlike the qf, flamethrower penetration against a med that can't heal himself is nice too

still think the axtinguisher is better against qf

I don't mind coming across pyros because the majority of people who ever play pyro in a 6v6 environment isn't that great at the class. I know that sounds weird as it is the pyro class, but it is how it is. You don't really come across a good pyro.

However, I don't think the class has the arsenal to be consistently viable. It's an ambush class. Typically ambushing with the class works best as a surprise or with a flank strategy (half the reason why the backburner shit house strat worked), but since there's the Degreaser now, ambushing head on can work fine. The only reason why I think a flank/surprise ambush works better is because it's something even people not so good at the class can easily get away with (welcome to pyro).

Regardless of me having said that, you already know the class works the best at close range. Well, if you're not using gimmick weapons (the one flaregun that does pretty much no damage, has no afterburn and has a knock back effect for example). You know what the problem is? Every other combat class can be equally or more effective from medium range and long range, excluding scout for the latter.

If the pyro wasn't an ambush/close range class, I would suggest the class having its close range capabilities nerfed and giving it better medium range capabilities. Maybe kind of buff what it can do at long range, but I'd be fine with or without that part.

tl;dr the class in its entirety isn't built for a consistent 6v6 environment, especially against players who know what they're doing and even more especially to that because the majority of people who play pyro ever in 6v6 just hope something goes right

i have like 5 hours on pyro so add me for tryout

wut ebout corpet

why the fuck do people want pyro in 6s

every single time there's an update people ask this same question, no other class, always pyro

So many fucking shitheads in this thread holy shit

I don't think anyone that has seriously played the game for any real amount of time was complaining about a stale meta. Robin Walker talked out of his ass and UGC set itself on fire because for some reason they put absolute faith in a guy that has probably watched less competitive tf2 in his life than many of them do in a night.

oh god no. fuck that.

I haven't seen it mentioned yet, but didn't the pyro have the speed option before the buff? You just needed the hat that activated the item set. No one ran full time pyro then even when he had a speed buff no matter what weapon he had out and only took 15% more damage instead of 20%. If anything the powerjack buff is a pyro nerf that makes him LESS viable in 6s.

Dealing with the classes in #40 (excluding maybe heavy) are usually simple changes to play style, once you know the class is being run (I will shotgun this pyro instead of rocketing this pyro)

Whereas a simple play style change will not make you more effective against the standard classes.

They are viable but situational

Well you are not quite correct, with the old set, the pyro would take constantly 10 % more damage against bullets, and gaining only 10 % extra speed as compared with 15 that is now.. So as I see it, if you learn to play with the new powerjack it's somewhat an upgrade. But more interestingly it raises the skill ceiling for pyros since you'll have to be careful when switching weapons and such in different situations.

Well I definitely remember people saying that the 6v6 meta hasn't changed in years and that the QF buff has made medic fun again, but whatever you need to support your deluded idea that you represent the majority

its not awful its not amazing you lose a lot of longrange damage/chasing but its viable

Pyro is only viable when defending last really... Other than that, imo pyro is shit.

I like doing backburner forward spawn plays, but unless you are doing a surprise yolo pyro play and get lucky, I don't think people will prefer pyro over a scout or soldier.

no please i dont need another class to steal all my ammo

It is, at best, situational. Roamer or scout are probably the only really viable options for most teams and with most people's laughable pyro DM (easy class heh), it's probably not going to change the situations you use it. One notable thing is that quick-fix completely neuters the normal time when pyro is viable (airblasts don't work against it, so stalling on lasts with it isn't happening, I know I saw an IM team try it against mangachu's team, so that MAY be new information). Like grape said, there are times that it could work with a solid strategy and bit of teamwork behind it. It is an ambush class by design, so you can't really expect it to hold flanks particularly well. It has more viability with the pocket, much like it does in highlander. It can definitely be an asset in full-time QF teams since it can stall ubers (letting your pocket focus things a little better) and deflect kritz projectiles.
Overall, try it against your competition in scrims. You'll have your answer if you try it out.

I recall watching Langes stream, where his team (pug team? think it was a full team idk) was playing against a team who ran full time pyro on Badlands. All his team did was bitch, blah blah not the meta, blah blah garbage class, blah blah listen to me complain a lot. I recall Langes quote, which I thought was fitting: "IS IT WORKING? ARE THEY WINNING? ITS VIABLE." "But-" "IS IT WORKING? ARE THEY WINNING? ITS VIABLE."

Langes team did, in the end win, but was due to more issues then the pyro. It was incredibly entertaining to watch, as the Pyro is actually the key that kept them in the game as long as they were (and frustrated the SHIT out of the soldiers because that dude was reflecting EVERY rocket), otherwise it'd have been over much quicker.

That said, you're going to get a lot of flak for daring to speak against the holy meta. Its ok, I will share the minus frags with you.

I don't think a minor buff to an already fairly weak unlock is enough to warrant giving up a scout or soldier.

It can be viable in almost every situation. It works best defending last in terms of consistency.

And let's not keep going with these "lack of mobility" statements. That's not the issue whatsoever. I mean sure, if the detonator worked like stickies or rockets in terms of jumping + self damage, then the class could end up being better (which to others means more annoying), but what the class actually lacks in threatening damage from a distance. The only time the pyro is a threat at a distance is while someone is already on fire. That requires a lucky long/medium range flare hit or the pyro getting up close, which if it was the latter, then the pyro did something wrong now that there's space between the two.

tl;dr stop with "no mobility". it's time to face the fact that the class isn't meant to have high mobility or any capability that matters @ medium/long range. a class like that won't consistently work in 6v6.

I don't understand why it's so popular to make vacant, supercilious comments such as these. The very least you can do is elaborate.

Except my argument is that nobody cares what ugc steel thinks about the 6v6 meta-game.

Hasn't changed in years? Don't think so. The way the roamer has changed from season 6 onward, the introduction of gunboats and the like, basher on scouts, solo uber pockets, etc. it's a wildly different meta-game.

Considering you yourself have experience limited to a single year on your account, ugc steel, and highlander, I'm fairly certain you're not the authority on the development of the 6s meta-game either.

better than speaking pretentious nothings
"supercilious"

Uhh, supercilious is a word that fits perfectly. Other words, mostly those that are synonyms of arrogance, do not properly express the "holier than thou" (for lack of better words) aura that similar comments present.

And it's a poor defense anyway to say "ya but not as bad as u lololol"

holy shit you don't stop with the doing-what-you're-accusing
hilarious

Ehh. I would fucking love for pyro to viable. It would be quite refreshing and shake things up. However right now it isn't and that is what the question is about.

I never said my opinion mattered. I specifically said other people said so. People like Harbleu, who's been embracing the QF change, and Sal, who agreed with Robin that there hasn't been much change in meta lately. I know that my experience doesn't mean much, but I'm a little offended that you'd think that that's a valid reason for not taking it into consideration at all. Thanks for showing me just how supportive you are of people who aren't as good as you, you piece of shit.

I don't know where people get the idea that the "meta" hasn't changed in years from. Is it Highlander? I swear it's Highlander. If any of the season 9 stvs I saved from the odd game still worked, it would be pretty damn obvious that the way teams played would have changed drastically to season 14.