Since the Quick-Fix was buffed a few months ago, I thought it was imbalanced and definitely not good for the 6s meta. Month's worth of scrims and a few lan matches later, I honestly don't understand why leagues (esp esea) aren't moving to ban this weapon.
Just to review, QF attributes:
-No forceback, knockback, or airblast (bullets, explosive damage, pyros do nothing)
-Buffs heal target to 125% AND buffs medic to 125% (190hp) when uber is popped which fades like a normal buff
-Medic and heal target continue to cap point once uber is popped
-ALWAYS builds at max charge rate because only buffs to 125%. (Uber charge build rate decreases by half once heal target is past 143% buff)- this means you'll have QF in exactly 32 seconds every time, assuming you're constantly healing.
-Medic jumps with heal target and runs at same speed, ONLY if healing a faster class.
IMO it changes 6s meta in a bad way and makes shitty teams "better" because it
1) lets medics get away with not understanding uber advantages and not knowing how to build charge
2) creates cop out strats that let teams who have bad coordination get away with shit like bad pushes because of the fast heal rate in fights
3) ability to cap points while immune to knockback, forceback, or airblast while "ubered"
4) medics able to jump across maps and follow their heal targets which change getting out/pushing in (esp lasts like snake, metalworks, and gran)
overall the problem is NOT that the quickfix is op, the problem is that it single handedly changes the entire way 6s is played and IN MY OPINION- for the worse. it is easily counterable by both vanilla uber and kritz but the effect it has on 6s gameplay is insanely different, and not a change for the better. quickfix makes 6s less team-oriented strategy in terms of combo+flank, promotes moronic strats (like AG vs. tri- jump gully last with QF, continue capping point. other team uses QF to body block but gets focus fired by remaining 4 players on offense. or heavy+sniper to mid ALL DAY), and makes shitty teams slightly less shitty because of how much easier it makes medic.
thoughts? should it be banned? is it fine? what is the QF's effect on comp 6s?
EDIT: main reason for posting this again is cos this is honestly the most boring lan I've ever watched and this new QF meta is pretty much why
Since the Quick-Fix was buffed a few months ago, I thought it was imbalanced and definitely not good for the 6s meta. Month's worth of scrims and a few lan matches later, I honestly don't understand why leagues (esp esea) aren't moving to ban this weapon.
Just to review, QF attributes:
-No forceback, knockback, or airblast (bullets, explosive damage, pyros do nothing)
-Buffs heal target to 125% AND buffs medic to 125% (190hp) when uber is popped which fades like a normal buff
-Medic and heal target continue to cap point once uber is popped
-ALWAYS builds at max charge rate because only buffs to 125%. (Uber charge build rate decreases by half once heal target is past 143% buff)- this means you'll have QF in exactly 32 seconds every time, assuming you're constantly healing.
-Medic jumps with heal target and runs at same speed, ONLY if healing a faster class.
IMO it changes 6s meta in a bad way and makes shitty teams "better" because it
1) lets medics get away with not understanding uber advantages and not knowing how to build charge
2) creates cop out strats that let teams who have bad coordination get away with shit like bad pushes because of the fast heal rate in fights
3) ability to cap points while immune to knockback, forceback, or airblast while "ubered"
4) medics able to jump across maps and follow their heal targets which change getting out/pushing in (esp lasts like snake, metalworks, and gran)
overall the problem is NOT that the quickfix is op, the problem is that it single handedly changes the entire way 6s is played and IN MY OPINION- for the worse. it is easily counterable by both vanilla uber and kritz but the effect it has on 6s gameplay is insanely different, and not a change for the better. quickfix makes 6s less team-oriented strategy in terms of combo+flank, promotes moronic strats (like AG vs. tri- jump gully last with QF, continue capping point. other team uses QF to body block but gets focus fired by remaining 4 players on offense. or heavy+sniper to mid ALL DAY), and makes shitty teams slightly less shitty because of how much easier it makes medic.
thoughts? should it be banned? is it fine? what is the QF's effect on comp 6s?
EDIT: main reason for posting this again is cos this is honestly the most boring lan I've ever watched and this new QF meta is pretty much why
http://teamfortress.tv/forum/thread/10702/1
[i]not again[/i]
Quindalithoughts? should it be banned? is it fine? what is the QF's effect on comp 6s?
maybe not banned, but definitely needs to be nerfed.
[quote=Quindali]thoughts? should it be banned? is it fine? what is the QF's effect on comp 6s?[/quote]
maybe not banned, but definitely needs to be nerfed.
It makes the game more entertaining, no one wants to watch ubercharge into ubercharge fights every single game anymore. QF is exciting to watch because you never know whats gonna happen, and if it is easily countered why would they use it?
It makes the game more entertaining, no one wants to watch ubercharge into ubercharge fights every single game anymore. QF is exciting to watch because you never know whats gonna happen, and if it is easily countered why would they use it?
Quindali4) medics able to jump across maps and follow their heal targets which change getting out/pushing in (esp lasts like snake, metalworks, and gran)
thats a good thing
Quindaliit is easily counterable by both vanilla uber and kritz but the effect it has on 6s gameplay is insanely different, and not a change for the better.
thats just plain wrong
[quote=Quindali]4) medics able to jump across maps and follow their heal targets which change getting out/pushing in (esp lasts like snake, metalworks, and gran)[/quote]
thats a good thing
[quote=Quindali]it is easily counterable by both vanilla uber and kritz but the effect it has on 6s gameplay is insanely different, and not a change for the better.[/quote]
thats just plain wrong
london_callingQuindalithoughts? should it be banned? is it fine? what is the QF's effect on comp 6s?
maybe not banned, but definitely needs to be nerfed.
Valve doesn't really care about the competitive community, and so I don't think they'll nerf it because we want them to
[quote=london_calling][quote=Quindali]thoughts? should it be banned? is it fine? what is the QF's effect on comp 6s?[/quote]
maybe not banned, but definitely needs to be nerfed.[/quote]
Valve doesn't really care about the competitive community, and so I don't think they'll nerf it because we want them to
harbleuif its overpowered why are we the only invite team using it? if its so much better why doesn't every team use it?
one month later-- all invite teams using it at lan.
[quote=harbleu]if its overpowered why are we the only invite team using it? if its so much better why doesn't every team use it?[/quote]
one month later-- all invite teams using it at lan.
remember
supporting quick fix = supporting heavy
do you want to be like that
remember
supporting quick fix = supporting heavy
do you want to be like that
Wilsonand if it is easily countered why would they use it?
Because it needs to be situational and not a complete upgrade. By that logic why would you ever use kritz since it can easily be countered by uber?
[quote=Wilson]and if it is easily countered why would they use it?[/quote]
Because it needs to be situational and not a complete upgrade. By that logic why would you ever use kritz since it can easily be countered by uber?
I've definitely noticed it's donned on some really sloppy play; there used to be so much on the line in stand offs, now they're pretty petty.
I've definitely noticed it's donned on some really sloppy play; there used to be so much on the line in stand offs, now they're pretty petty.
Now instead of uber advantages we have heavy advantages and are you holding last advantages
Now instead of uber advantages we have [i]heavy[/i] advantages and [i]are you holding last[/i] advantages
sherman_gluckTaggerungThe Quick Fix should be banned until next season due to its mid-season change and then re-evaluated during the off season(just like a mid season unlock). The new Quick Fix drastically changes the pacing of 6v6 and it needs to have a proper look at before being put into the league.
I'm not saying I hate the thing, or it should be banned forever. But it shouldn't be thrown in during a season, it should be evaluated during the off season and (hopefully) be introduced in the next season.
Until a decision is made, we will be practicing playing with Quick Fix and seeing what ways you can play against it with Kritz and Uber. Currently it seems that using Kritz is the only effective medi-gun you can run against it. But even then, its only slightly effective.
no, tf2 is significantly more fun to watch with it being used.
lol at what people thought about QF 6s meta a month ago when it first came out. "forces teams to be more aggressive" "more dynamic gameplay" good joke
reading over the first thread from a month ago and seeing how opinions have changed just a few weeks later after a few lan matches... hilarious. it's k defy, me and you are just ahead of the curve and have too much 6s game sense for these plebians :P
[quote=sherman_gluck][quote=Taggerung]The Quick Fix should be banned until next season due to its mid-season change and then re-evaluated during the off season(just like a mid season unlock). The new Quick Fix drastically changes the pacing of 6v6 and it needs to have a proper look at before being put into the league.
I'm not saying I hate the thing, or it should be banned forever. But it shouldn't be thrown in during a season, it should be evaluated during the off season and (hopefully) be introduced in the next season.
Until a decision is made, we will be practicing playing with Quick Fix and seeing what ways you can play against it with Kritz and Uber. Currently it seems that using Kritz is the only effective medi-gun you can run against it. But even then, its only slightly effective.[/quote]
no, tf2 is significantly more fun to watch with it being used.[/quote]
lol at what people thought about QF 6s meta a month ago when it first came out. "forces teams to be more aggressive" "more dynamic gameplay" good joke
reading over the first thread from a month ago and seeing how opinions have changed just a few weeks later after a few lan matches... hilarious. it's k defy, me and you are just ahead of the curve and have too much 6s game sense for these plebians :P
TwinqeAs someone who initially thought the new QF would definitely be great for the game, this LAN has not been fun to watch at all.
This, i really cannot give reasons why, but it really tones the gameplay down from a spectators view.
[quote=Twinqe]As someone who initially thought the new QF would definitely be great for the game, this LAN has not been fun to watch at all.[/quote]
This, i really cannot give reasons why, but it really tones the gameplay down from a spectators view.
so, how many times has HRG used quick fix as of yet, and of those times how many have been successful? on the flip side, how many times did AG use the quick fix vs HRG, and how many times have THEY been successful?
if all of these huge metagame changes still do nothing to the best team right now continuing to roll through everyone with their completely standard and same old team composition, then maybe the weapons aren't the problem
so, how many times has HRG used quick fix as of yet, and of those times how many have been successful? on the flip side, how many times did AG use the quick fix vs HRG, and how many times have THEY been successful?
if all of these huge metagame changes still do nothing to the best team right now continuing to roll through everyone with their completely standard and same old team composition, then maybe the weapons aren't the problem
I thought it would be good for the game, but after watching the LAN it doesn't seem to be. Maybe we should ban it for next season.
I thought it would be good for the game, but after watching the LAN it doesn't seem to be. Maybe we should ban it for next season.
PAPASTAINso, how many times has HRG used quick fix as of yet, and of those times how many have been successful? on the flip side, how many times did AG use the quick fix vs HRG, and how many times have THEY been successful?
if all of these huge metagame changes still do nothing to the best team right now continuing to roll through everyone with their completely standard and same old team composition, then maybe the weapons aren't the problem
Uh, they both used QF the whole time. Only switching to kritz occasionally.
[quote=PAPASTAIN]so, how many times has HRG used quick fix as of yet, and of those times how many have been successful? on the flip side, how many times did AG use the quick fix vs HRG, and how many times have THEY been successful?
if all of these huge metagame changes still do nothing to the best team right now continuing to roll through everyone with their completely standard and same old team composition, then maybe the weapons aren't the problem[/quote]
Uh, they both used QF the whole time. Only switching to kritz occasionally.
I think the quick fix offers an interesting mechanic to the game which is add great mobility to medics, so I think it should definitly be incorporated accross the scenes in 6s, but definitely not with the stats it has right now.
We should petition or at least warn valve about the current broken status of this weapon.
Currently if one team is running QF the enemy team has to run it too or else they are at a disadvantage.
We should really pass the word to valve, IMO an appropriate fix would be to increase building time to that of normal uber, or cut normal healing rate by half or remove it completly leaving the "quick fix" part of the weapon for its uber only, or do both.
I think the half overheal stat is good for the weapon but one of the other stats need some rework
I think the quick fix offers an interesting mechanic to the game which is add great mobility to medics, so I think it should definitly be incorporated accross the scenes in 6s, but definitely not with the stats it has right now.
We should petition or at least warn valve about the current broken status of this weapon.
Currently if one team is running QF the enemy team has to run it too or else they are at a disadvantage.
We should really pass the word to valve, IMO an appropriate fix would be to increase building time to that of normal uber, or cut normal healing rate by half or remove it completly leaving the "quick fix" part of the weapon for its uber only, or do both.
I think the half overheal stat is good for the weapon but one of the other stats need some rework
To me, so far the only enjoyable parts of watching LAN has been clockwork and blaze. I didn't even watch half the matches so far because it's just not fun to watch, and hard to follow.
And I normally don't miss a second of the LAN streams.
To me, so far the only enjoyable parts of watching LAN has been clockwork and blaze. I didn't even watch half the matches so far because it's just not fun to watch, and hard to follow.
And I normally don't miss a second of the LAN streams.
reillyTo me, so far the only enjoyable parts of watching LAN has been clockwork and blaze. I didn't even watch half the matches so far because it's just not fun to watch, and hard to follow.
And I normally don't miss a second of the LAN streams.
^ pretty much. we had like 10 people watching the matches from this morning and we've all stopped because watching QF fail pushes over and over again + heavy/sniper to every mid has pretty much made this the worst LAN i've ever seen
[quote=reilly]To me, so far the only enjoyable parts of watching LAN has been clockwork and blaze. I didn't even watch half the matches so far because it's just not fun to watch, and hard to follow.
And I normally don't miss a second of the LAN streams.[/quote]
^ pretty much. we had like 10 people watching the matches from this morning and we've all stopped because watching QF fail pushes over and over again + heavy/sniper to every mid has pretty much made this the worst LAN i've ever seen
i love rock paper scissors and dm servers
now 6s is a simple combination of both
i love rock paper scissors and dm servers
now 6s is a simple combination of both
I'd like to see the QF be as viable as Kritz/UC, but right now that doesn't seem like it's going to happen. I haven't seen much of the LAN yet, but half of what I watched was horrendous, and not just because of the QF.
Going a little off topic here, but I don't understand why we're allowed to use 2 snipers still.
I'd like to see the QF be as viable as Kritz/UC, but right now that doesn't seem like it's going to happen. I haven't seen much of the LAN yet, but half of what I watched was horrendous, and not just because of the QF.
Going a little off topic here, but I don't understand why we're allowed to use 2 snipers still.
im loving the sniper heavy quickfix :]
im loving the sniper heavy quickfix :]
As someone who hasn't played in a couple seasons and getting back into it now. The current meta seem so boring and this lan is showcasing this. I haven't seen as many heavies since pre-natasha nerf, where people used to run 2 heavies at last every single time. Quick-fix isn't helping very much either.
As someone who hasn't played in a couple seasons and getting back into it now. The current meta seem so boring and this lan is showcasing this. I haven't seen as many heavies since pre-natasha nerf, where people used to run 2 heavies at last every single time. Quick-fix isn't helping very much either.
Most of the teams in IM made a silent gentleman's agreement not to main quickfix weeks ago.
I'm not surprised.
Watch s10-s13 LAN VODs, and then tell me that this is anywhere near comparable.
Most of the teams in IM made a silent gentleman's agreement not to main quickfix weeks ago.
I'm not surprised.
Watch s10-s13 LAN VODs, and then tell me that this is anywhere near comparable.
KanecoI think the quick fix offers an interesting mechanic
yeah, it really is an insane mechanic. players you heal just transform into heavies. the real tragedy is that none of these heavies are sam lingle.
[quote=Kaneco]I think the quick fix offers an interesting mechanic[/quote]
yeah, it really is an insane mechanic. players you heal just transform into heavies. the real tragedy is that none of these heavies are sam lingle.
kirbythe thing is i really want to see the QF be as viable as kritz/UC :(
It's hard to say, but QF might be one of those things that take people a while to understand fully. Give it a couple months and see if play evolves beyond Heavy/Sniper.
[quote=kirby]the thing is i really want to see the QF be as viable as kritz/UC :([/quote]
It's hard to say, but QF might be one of those things that take people a while to understand fully. Give it a couple months and see if play evolves beyond Heavy/Sniper.
I remember when I loved watching TF2. This though, this has been painfully boring. The fights are harder to follow, the game seems slower, and it also seems to have caused fights to become less interesting too.
I remember when I loved watching TF2. This though, this has been painfully boring. The fights are harder to follow, the game seems slower, and it also seems to have caused fights to become less interesting too.
cloudlandKanecoI think the quick fix offers an interesting mechanic
yeah, it really is an insane mechanic. players you heal just transform into heavies. the real tragedy is that none of these heavies are sam lingle.
You obviously didn't read what I wrote. Anyway I'm gonna state it again. The interesting mechanic it gives to the game is giving the medic extra mobility, Im not talking about the healing rate, in fact I think it should be cut in half or removed completely I think that would fix the weapon and make it a viable choice between the 3 mediguns
[quote=cloudland][quote=Kaneco]I think the quick fix offers an interesting mechanic[/quote]
yeah, it really is an insane mechanic. players you heal just transform into heavies. the real tragedy is that none of these heavies are sam lingle.[/quote]
You obviously didn't read what I wrote. Anyway I'm gonna state it again. The interesting mechanic it gives to the game is giving the medic extra mobility, Im not talking about the healing rate, in fact I think it should be cut in half or removed completely I think that would fix the weapon and make it a viable choice between the 3 mediguns