The lan teams didn't run QF because they liked it (except for mixup). They ran it out of necessity. It's already been explained pretty thoroughly why the quickfix in it's current form is too strong. It's the best medigun to run at mid if you actually plan on going to mid, it always builds at full speed, the medic gets buffed when it's uber is popped and the only thing able to reliably outdamage the healrate is heavy, it also negates all knockback while still allowing you to cap, and unless you have a heavy or a full kritz ready to go, you're more than likely not going to be able to kill them before they cap/kill you. There's more to it as well, but most of it has already been explained and I don't feel like regurgitating any more of what has already been said.

I don't understand the mentality behind the support the quickfix got in the first place when it was so blatantly powerful after the buff. You can blame bl4nk and slin for starting a bandwagon all you want, but you either have to be ignorant to how powerful the quickfix actually is now in 6s, or hopelessly delusional enough to think that Valve will actually support 6v6 if we "change up the meta." Either way this unlock does not positively affect the game in it's current form, and don't expect Valve to make any changes to it anytime soon.

I'm glad it was banned and it should have been banned right when it was updated. The same thing happened with crit-a-cola when that got buffed and I have no idea why it wasn't the same for the quickfix.

...then again it allows the teams in all of the divisions to take the next couple weeks to practice with the correct weapon ruleset? it's a pretty big difference between the two medic weapons

Those weapons don't have such a profound and broad impact on the game. They are weapons that individual combat classes use. 6v6 revolves around uber advantages, it's been that way for a long long time. The quick fix being the medics gun, changes the entire way a team has to play, and thus the flow of the game. Quick fix compared to escape plan and boston basher is like comparing apples to oranges.

Technically you're right in that aspect, you don't want to be 2nd to mid because they're using Quick-Fix UNLESS you're pulling a trick play at your own second. Which becomes obvious to the other team when you don't show up.

While Kritz can beat a QF in a even fight, running it to mid gives a slight edge to the other team's QF.

last season we had the option of limiting heavy to 0 yet we didnt take special steps to make that decision early so people could practice.

I dunno....I wouldn't trust invite voters

For Season 11, Bonk was almost allowed again because I misunderstood the "1" or "0" values on the spreadsheet. FUCK KILLING IT WAS CONFUSING

... the people in the pubs care the MOST

The point of having Invite captains vote on weapon bans is because they're better than everyone else and have a much better understanding of the effects certain weapons will have on the game.

I think the players that were at LAN are similarly better than you and have a much better understanding of its effects on the game after playing with it for 3-4 weeks.

I wrote "ban" and "allow" one season to piss killing off. lel

I'm really started to get confused on where ESEA is coming up with shit. First, they allow a weapon that changed mid-season, which they never allowed before. Now, they are going against the invite poll and deciding themselves.

They aren't really going against any rules. The gun was allowed before the buff and killing made the argument that they only ban new weapons. It's not like the equalizer was banned when it got split up in 2.

considering how i am no longer an invite captain and therefore dont have the privilege to vote in such a vote i'm not exactly sure what you think I am arguing for. That I should have had a say in the decision? no... i just dont understand the precedent for making this decision this way.

Is someone finally admitting Gullywash sucks?

~MOB MENTALITY~

A change to heavy isn't as big as a change to the entire metagame lol

The split was a nerf. The QF change was a major buff. How would we respond if the direct hit was suddenly given full rocket splash? A ridiculous example I know, but I'm pretty sure we would ban it right away.

what do you mean? Only a small percentage of players want the quickfix allowed and it seems like most invite players that seriously played with it want it banned.

i dont get what the problem is. its seems like basically everyone is in agreement with the ban.

I imagine that the vote is fairly amorphous yet because of the invite teams forming and changing so the vote will be delayed I imagine (at least it wouldn't have been today) - so Killing took the initiative to solve the problem now rather than let the issue hang in the air for several more weeks, especially given that many of the current invite captains who will have votes apparently voiced their intention to ban the item to killing.

Not the cleanest possible course, but it'll do for now until something satisfactory is done with the item. It shouldn't have been allowed into s14, but it, like the conch, were relatively useless items prior to the update, so I understand perhaps why it wasn't picked up until it was too late.

I think it needs more testing time with a bigger testing group but I agree with MEESTA SHRIIN that a justified reason for banning it would be out of respect for Eurofriends who have barely experienced playing with and against it and would be forced to rush a new playstyle just for the QF.

Should be left up to a vote, that being said I'm sure that all of the captains will vote to have it banned because of the fear of change. Everyone's worked "SO HARD" to get this good at the game, why would anyone want that effort to go to waste? Why learn something new when you can just get better at what you know? We had more practice with quickfix than anyone, yet HRG was still able to handedly beat us at LAN using all three guns, only when we used all three guns did we finally take a map off of them. Quickfix is definitely not all powerful like the nay sayers are so quick to believe. It may be slightly overpowered in its current state, and maybe it should be banned until it receives a slight nerf, but I'd rather see teams push the envelope and make medics a more dynamic and influential class. If it gets banned now, unless it gets nerfed into obscurity, it will not be unbanned without some serious lobbying.

The nerf it needs is to allow knock back of the target being quickfix-charged. This would allow fully buffed members of the opposing team the health to survive an attack from the quickfix, by the medic out healing prior to the quickfix charge, or by the combat classes manipulating the attack the same way people juggle and completely deny ubers by good positioning and aiming.

I'd rather see it to a vote, and let it marinate with the captains/teams of invite, the exact same process that it has been for the other item bans everyone seems to agree with thus far.

are you really that concerned about the process for the ruling? Marxist explains it pretty well.

We had effectively the same amount of time. I'd rather it didn't get banned, because it's such a cool weapon, but no one can figure a way to work around it, and even then it is always going to be the most effective thing to run on mids because heals + early uber. If it had stock uber build rate maybe it'd be more bearable

I put a lot of emphasis on the vote. You weren't on the past few days so I assumed you'd vote to allow. Every other team in invite at the moment is dead except for those that were at LAN.

*Every team is dead except for mix^ and hrg
OH SHIT DRAMA

I doubt banning the quick fix will make the stalemates go away. When two teams close in skill really want to win, someone is gonna park the bus. It's the best way to play TF2. This is only going to become more and more common as time goes on. It's the endgame of TF2, and it sucks.

From a player's perspective, it was way, way more intense to play with quick fix than without. Everything felt like it took a lot more skill. Medics had to properly RJ with their pockets, pockets had a ton more decisions to make (do I use this QF uber to full heal my team, do I RJ through the enemy team to pinch them with my flank, etc), demomen had to be a great deal more aware of their positioning (since a combo can just double RJ to you at any time), and scouts had less buffs to work with.

The old game is completely stale compared to what the quick fix offers. I was considered to be the best pocket in the game when I was playing in s13, and I can tell you right now that in the old metagame, I did not have to make a single decision. I can teach anyone to play as well as me with a fucking flowchart (assuming they had the required dm). That's sad.

We have a single match that ends in horrible stalemates, and suddenly the community thinks that this is unusual and blames the quick-fix when it's a map issue. Did any of you watch i46 where mix^ vs LG at i46 ended 1-0 after 30 minutes? How about this season, where we could have parked the bus after being up 4-2 vs trihards, but chose not to since it wasn't lan? Or maybe the season before with fully torqued vs HRG? Please remove gullywash.

We're going from entirely new ways of pushing where almost everything about the game is changed and stepping back into an old metagame where a "big change" is suiciding 4 players instead of 2, all because of a kneejerk reaction to a single game played at lan. I hope the community thinks about the long-term effects of banning significant unlocks and the precedent it could set for future ones. I want to see a truly evolving game.

you misinterpreted. nobody saw killing's early ban coming, because it's the opposite of what is normally done.

neither pyyyour as former captain of top guns or grape as current captain were asked to take part in such a vote.

killing says your team is dead nick, get over it

it's grape's team, dick...

So can it also please be banned for the rest of the playoffs?