i like gullywash, never said i didn't. but i can't deny that the last point is a pain in the ass and always has been. i'm more of the belief that we should cycle in 1-2 new maps every season so we can discover those gems that we otherwise wouldn't have.

yes let's minus frag milo for suggesting the same thing but when ruwin says something we all want it.

Even without gullywash, unbanning the quickfix would be a terrible idea. But let's not get off topic.

Metalworks is gr8.

Please get rid of gpit or gully, I honestly don't care which.

As much as gpit is disliked by the players, it certainly makes for a very entertaining match to watch.

My vote is to keep the current rotation.

Agreed. It's getting kind of ridiculous now. (no offense to ruwin) People will literally minus frag an opinion of a less popular player but 10 minutes later plus frag a more popular player *for saying the exact same thing*. Blind faith has drowned this community and more people soak it up every day. Appeal to popularity and/or appeal to authority are more than common in TFTV.

Remember when people had their own opinion?... neither do I

if both teams are really close in skill and the attacking team has no uber advantage, almost every last in the game is a pain in the ass, even badlands and granary. I see no evidence that, quick fix nonwithstanding, gullywash last leads to particularly bad stalemates. both the strat of suiciding for a pick class and the strat of getting ubers out of the way to repush non-uber work just as well on gullywash as they do on other maps.

as for cycling new maps in, I think that

a) it's better ideally to have a stable map pool that doesnt change often to make it easier on spectators and allow teams to get really good on the 8 existing maps

b) there is really only a need to look for gems if the existing maps are lacking, and I dont think gullywash is (I dont think gpit is either, but I realize I'm in the minority on that one, whereas before the most recent esea lan hardly anyone was talking about removing gullywash)

yukon

gully is not good
mid is retarded
last is retarded
no ability to forward hold
dropdown is retarded
holding 2 is retarded

idk gully really seems to shrink the skill difference between teams more than any other map because of how forgiving it is for wiping on mids/backcapping

That's just opinion though. I could gather quite a few people who don't think gpit is fun to watch at all.

I personally think KOTH is the most entertaining gametype to watch, but that doesn't mean we should add more KOTH maps (even though we should)

I was bored, so I averaged how long each 5cp map took to play this season for invite games

gullywash- avg ~38 mins
badlands- avg ~30 mins
granary- avg ~36 mins
snakewater- avg ~37 mins
process- avg ~34 mins
metalworks- avg ~34 mins

what can we tell from this?

1. all the results were extremely close, meaning that if we're evaluating maps based on how stalematey they are, with badlands being the ideal and a like 25-45 min game being most fun to watch, we're doin pretty well

2. gullywash was BARELY the map that took the longest on average

HOWEVER

a) it was by a very slim amount, well within the margin of error

b) vector had died by that point, and when vector played the top teams they lost fairly quickly (although they also had long games vs r5 and root+6)

c) root plus six did not play hrg, tri hards or mixup that week, neither did solace

d) the two longest matches that week, hrg vs mad men and tri hards vs mixup, were also both very entertaining and close

basically, all the evidence points to the fact that, with the maps we have now (minus maybe badlands), how long a game takes is MUCH more dependent on the skill of the two teams and how close the game is rather than the map

I think you're in the minority of people for believing mid, the dropdown, and maybe holding 2 are retarded

I'm pretty sure gullywash is far less prone to upsets than viaduct/gpit/badlands- the maps that are either super standard or super weird have the most upsets, because there's a stronger likelihood that a) if it's super standard, the lesser team can play it well even if theyre a newer team/have worse chemistry, or b) if it's a weird map the lesser team either has played it more or just gets super lucky

yo guys if you even want to consider either one of these maps they're gunna need SERIOUS COMPETITIVE TESTING first because i don't want any of my maps to end up like cp_ashville

since apparently nobody likes (more like TESTS) edifice anymore i guess i'll focus more on those maps and other promising (new) projects

also consider that before adding any OTHER untested maps as well, if ya want it in ESEA there should be a lot of testing beforehand!

i personally think that without enough properly tested new maps the map rotation is as good as it'll get (FOR NOW) although i could see a map getting swapped out for koth_coalplant because that map's been tested a lot

how many upsets this season in invite, based on final seedings of the teams (excluding forfeits):

process- 1 (ag vs r5)
badlands- 1 (mixup vs ag)
snakewater- 1 (mad men vs ag- if you count it)
gravelpit- 0 (usually more than this season though)
metalworks- 0
granary- 1 (mad men vs top guns)
gullywash- 0
viaduct- 1 (top guns vs solace)

keep gully keep gpit what's the motivation behind changing this?

Was Fastlane/Prolane ever played in ESEA? With a few adjustments(last is weird) it could be a decent possibility?

please yukon

Would really like to see another koth in (Canopy/coalplant?) not sure what should go. Metalworks gully and gpit seem to be the favorites to go.

because not many people actually like playing gpit, the main reason (i'm assuming) it's still in the rotation is the spectate aspect. but after all it is what the actual players playing the map want, right?[

just because you want to disagree with a popular opinion doesn't mean you're right. gullywash is not one of the best maps. it has never been, it has awful chokes and a forever bad last point and leads to stalemates no matter the division.

Bring back old maps....

Yukon
Warmfront
Follower
Mainline (lol)
koth Ashville

Would be cool to see how the maps play now...since the game has evolved a lot.

I recall one of the worst things about mainline was double heavy Natasha, maybe with that out of the way the map could be better(?)

i'm just curious but is there a specific reason as to why maps like coldfront and viaduct get remakes that remove the aesthetics? Like couldn't we instead have a colderfront or something i really like the aesthetics of coldfront but the balancing of warmfront and warmerfront

people have frame issues with winter styled maps from what I've been told

Frame issues and apparently some visual issues with seeing players.

yukon

Obscure for gpit.

I would also like to point out that gully produced some really good games

HRG v Mad (4-3)
AG v soL (5-4)
tri v mix (5-4)
and the chill2good upsets were entertaining too

It would be nice to see:

One season replace a map with a whole new map
Next season replace a map with an old map
Next season, replace a map with a different whole new map

... and the cycle continues

this way you try new maps (and keep the great ones) but you can take a break from other maps (you can always go back to them)