I'm watching the ESEA Open grand finals and there's been issue after issue. Apparently it's a DDoS. But should the casters be publicising that? I think we should treat them like sports do streakers, completely ignore them and don't publicise it at all.
EDIT: Damn it Bloodsire, as soon as I type this you say the exact same thing on stream. I swear I had this idea first.
I'm watching the ESEA Open grand finals and there's been issue after issue. Apparently it's a DDoS. But should the casters be publicising that? I think we should treat them like sports do streakers, completely ignore them and don't publicise it at all.
EDIT: Damn it Bloodsire, as soon as I type this you say the exact same thing on stream. I swear I had this idea first.
Only problem is there isn't really a way for casters to do the same thing as they do with streakers. We can't go to a commercial break and have it seem normal, or go to a highlight reel during a time out.
Only problem is there isn't really a way for casters to do the same thing as they do with streakers. We can't go to a commercial break and have it seem normal, or go to a highlight reel during a time out.
It's more akin to a Rain Delay in say NASCAR, just gotta fill the time up somehow. Talking, interviews, cut to a rebroadcast of the match yesterday, etc.
It's more akin to a Rain Delay in say NASCAR, just gotta fill the time up somehow. Talking, interviews, cut to a rebroadcast of the match yesterday, etc.
Im not the best with internet slang or whatever you call it... what is a DDoS?
Im not the best with internet slang or whatever you call it... what is a DDoS?
Lucky_ShotIm not the best with internet slang or whatever you call it... what is a DDoS?
Distributed Denial of Service
[quote=Lucky_Shot]Im not the best with internet slang or whatever you call it... what is a DDoS?[/quote]
Distributed Denial of Service
DDoS = Distributed Denial of Service attack.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDoS#Distributed_attack
It's kinda a double-edged sword. On one hand, you prevent chat from getting all outraged, wanting to know who did it, etc. On the other hand, people may start thinking it's more than just server problems, and might figure out on their own that it's a DDoS. It could also leak that it's a DDoS.
It's kinda a double-edged sword. On one hand, you prevent chat from getting all outraged, wanting to know who did it, etc. On the other hand, people may start thinking it's more than just server problems, and might figure out on their own that it's a DDoS. It could also leak that it's a DDoS.
I dont think its going to matter how they handle it, whoever these idiots are they are going to know if its working or not so pretending like it doesnt exist isnt really going to change anything, so you might as well be honest with your audience
I dont think its going to matter how they handle it, whoever these idiots are they are going to know if its working or not so pretending like it doesnt exist isnt really going to change anything, so you might as well be honest with your audience
We have two people on our team who just moved into college this week and barely have their belongings set up, this is the only day that we could make this happen. And the worst part, is that they're trying to make us reschedule this.
This is extremely inconvenient and frustrating for us, because we absolutely have little to no other time in the next several days that we can play this match again.
So, let's say we somehow manage to find a day in a reasonable timeframe to play again; what's stopping this from happening tomorrow? Or the next day? Or the day after that?
Who knows how long this could keep going. Bottom line is ESEA needs to figure out a way to prevent this from happening, or it will just keep happening.
We have two people on our team who just moved into college this week and barely have their belongings set up, this is the only day that we could make this happen. And the worst part, is that they're trying to make us reschedule this.
This is extremely inconvenient and frustrating for us, because we absolutely have little to no other time in the next several days that we can play this match again.
So, let's say we somehow manage to find a day in a reasonable timeframe to play again; [b]what's stopping this from happening tomorrow? Or the next day? Or the day after that? [/b]
Who knows how long this could keep going. Bottom line is ESEA needs to figure out a way to prevent this from happening, or it will just keep happening.
hookyIt's kinda a double-edged sword. On one hand, you prevent chat from getting all outraged, wanting to know who did it, etc. On the other hand, people may start thinking it's more than just server problems, and might figure out on their own that it's a DDoS. It could also leak that it's a DDoS.
When there's a streaker you know there's a streaker, they just don't show it on screen. There's kind of an implied "theres a streaker but we aren't going to show you" going on. This is to avoid the streakers getting the attention they seek.
It's not really about the chat, it's about the DDoSer.
On a related note, whoever is DDoSing needs to get a life. Ruining the fun of 12 players and 500 spectators is not a good hobby.
[quote=hooky]It's kinda a double-edged sword. On one hand, you prevent chat from getting all outraged, wanting to know who did it, etc. On the other hand, people may start thinking it's more than just server problems, and might figure out on their own that it's a DDoS. It could also leak that it's a DDoS.[/quote]
When there's a streaker you know there's a streaker, they just don't show it on screen. There's kind of an implied "theres a streaker but we aren't going to show you" going on. This is to avoid the streakers getting the attention they seek.
It's not really about the chat, it's about the DDoSer.
On a related note, whoever is DDoSing needs to get a life. Ruining the fun of 12 players and 500 spectators is not a good hobby.
http://www.prolexic.com/services-dos-and-ddos-mitigation.html
pernixhttp://www.prolexic.com/services-dos-and-ddos-mitigation.html
AS IF ESEA will spend any money on ddos protection. They get their servers from jimmy's wireless laptop in his basement.
[quote=pernix]http://www.prolexic.com/services-dos-and-ddos-mitigation.html[/quote]
AS IF ESEA will spend any money on ddos protection. They get their servers from jimmy's wireless laptop in his basement.
for eu scene we rarely get any ddos if any at all
for eu scene we rarely get any ddos if any at all
crespiWe have two people on our team who just moved into college this week and barely have their belongings set up, this is the only day that we could make this happen. And the worst part, is that they're trying to make us reschedule this.
This is extremely inconvenient and frustrating for us, because we absolutely have little to no other time in the next several days that we can play this match again.
So, let's say we somehow manage to find a day in a reasonable timeframe to play again; what's stopping this from happening tomorrow? Or the next day? Or the day after that?
Who knows how long this could keep going. Bottom line is ESEA needs to figure out a way to prevent this from happening, or it will just keep happening.
When it happened to our team last season we had to go through a lot of prevention measures. Sadly I don't think ESEA cares enough to do anything so it's going to be on both teams to use different mumbles and protect themselves. Sorry to hear you guys might not get your players :(. Hopefully it all works out and we see a good finals.
[quote=crespi]We have two people on our team who just moved into college this week and barely have their belongings set up, this is the only day that we could make this happen. And the worst part, is that they're trying to make us reschedule this.
This is extremely inconvenient and frustrating for us, because we absolutely have little to no other time in the next several days that we can play this match again.
So, let's say we somehow manage to find a day in a reasonable timeframe to play again; [b]what's stopping this from happening tomorrow? Or the next day? Or the day after that? [/b]
Who knows how long this could keep going. Bottom line is ESEA needs to figure out a way to prevent this from happening, or it will just keep happening.[/quote]
When it happened to our team last season we had to go through a lot of prevention measures. Sadly I don't think ESEA cares enough to do anything so it's going to be on both teams to use different mumbles and protect themselves. Sorry to hear you guys might not get your players :(. Hopefully it all works out and we see a good finals.
hookyOn a related note, whoever is DDoSing needs to get a life. Ruining the fun of 12 players and 500 spectators is not a good hobby.
Federal crimes are fun
[quote=hooky]
On a related note, whoever is DDoSing needs to get a life. Ruining the fun of 12 players and 500 spectators is not a good hobby.[/quote]
Federal crimes are fun
Was it the server being DDoS'd, or the players?
In the case of servers, yes it's on ESEA to do something about it.
In the case of players, well then it's up to the players to do something about it, not ESEA. There has been threads about how to prevent yourself from being DDoS'd, so someone should probably find those once again.
To answer the original question, I don't think casters should talk about it for 2 reasons.
1) It gives the DDoSer the satisfaction of everyone knowing about what he did
2) It educates potential future DDoSers to the fact it exist. The less people who know about it, the more it will go away.
Was it the server being DDoS'd, or the players?
In the case of servers, yes it's on ESEA to do something about it.
In the case of players, well then it's up to the players to do something about it, not ESEA. There has been threads about how to prevent yourself from being DDoS'd, so someone should probably find those once again.
To answer the original question, I don't think casters should talk about it for 2 reasons.
1) It gives the DDoSer the satisfaction of everyone knowing about what he did
2) It educates potential future DDoSers to the fact it exist. The less people who know about it, the more it will go away.
reillyWas it the server being DDoS'd, or the players?
In the case of servers, yes it's on ESEA to do something about it.
In the case of players, well then it's up to the players to do something about it, not ESEA. There has been threads about how to prevent yourself from being DDoS'd, so someone should probably find those once again.
To answer the original question, I don't think casters should talk about it for 2 reasons.
1) It gives the DDoSer the satisfaction of everyone knowing about what he did
2) It educates potential future DDoSers to the fact it exist. The less people who know about it, the more it will go away.
It wasn't the players.
If someone wants to actually ddos they're going to do it. Having the capability to prevent such an attack is what will prevent it from happening, and thus prevent "potential" ddos'ers from gaining interest.
[quote=reilly]Was it the server being DDoS'd, or the players?
In the case of servers, yes it's on ESEA to do something about it.
In the case of players, well then it's up to the players to do something about it, not ESEA. There has been threads about how to prevent yourself from being DDoS'd, so someone should probably find those once again.
To answer the original question, I don't think casters should talk about it for 2 reasons.
1) It gives the DDoSer the satisfaction of everyone knowing about what he did
2) It educates potential future DDoSers to the fact it exist. The less people who know about it, the more it will go away.[/quote]
It wasn't the players.
If someone wants to actually ddos they're going to do it. Having the capability to prevent such an attack is what will prevent it from happening, and thus prevent "potential" ddos'ers from gaining interest.
pernixhookyOn a related note, whoever is DDoSing needs to get a life. Ruining the fun of 12 players and 500 spectators is not a good hobby.
Federal crimes are fun
How would the law transfer if some of them are Canadian?
[quote=pernix][quote=hooky]
On a related note, whoever is DDoSing needs to get a life. Ruining the fun of 12 players and 500 spectators is not a good hobby.[/quote]
Federal crimes are fun[/quote]
How would the law transfer if some of them are Canadian?
pernixhookyOn a related note, whoever is DDoSing needs to get a life. Ruining the fun of 12 players and 500 spectators is not a good hobby.
Federal crimes are fun
when did i say this
[quote=pernix][quote=hooky]
On a related note, whoever is DDoSing needs to get a life. Ruining the fun of 12 players and 500 spectators is not a good hobby.[/quote]
Federal crimes are fun[/quote]
when did i say this
just a reminder, open playoffs have been ddos in the last 3 seasons
just a reminder, open playoffs have been ddos in the last 3 seasons
crespiwhat's stopping this from happening tomorrow? Or the next day? Or the day after that?
its simple.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_UyPkK1rTehE/TTlS2QPEvoI/AAAAAAAAAQ4/urimT-rihRo/s1600/dark-knight-quotes-3.jpg
we kill the bapeman.
sorry, couldnt resist.
[quote=crespi][b]what's stopping this from happening tomorrow? Or the next day? Or the day after that? [/b][/quote]
its simple.
[img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_UyPkK1rTehE/TTlS2QPEvoI/AAAAAAAAAQ4/urimT-rihRo/s1600/dark-knight-quotes-3.jpg[/img]
we kill the bapeman.
sorry, couldnt resist.
If you 100% need a solution, I think you could fix it by:
Using a non-esea server, any random server will do as long as only the person in charge knows what it is.
Send the IP of the server to the players, and the IP of the STV to the casters ONLY. Nobody else would get this IP.
Everyone involved would go offline on steam before joining the server so that nobody can tell what the server IP is.
It might suck for spectators and a lot of people who want to use the stv, but that way only the people who need the info would have it.
I'm not actually sure that this would work, but the DDoSers need the IP of the server to DDoS it correct? This would solve that issue
If you 100% need a solution, I think you could fix it by:
Using a non-esea server, any random server will do as long as only the person in charge knows what it is.
Send the IP of the server to the players, and the IP of the STV to the casters ONLY. Nobody else would get this IP.
Everyone involved would go offline on steam before joining the server so that nobody can tell what the server IP is.
It might suck for spectators and a lot of people who want to use the stv, but that way only the people who need the info would have it.
I'm not actually sure that this would work, but the DDoSers need the IP of the server to DDoS it correct? This would solve that issue
A DDoS isn't like a streaker because a streaker is caught and thrown out. And it's not like a rain delay in that the clouds eventually pass over.
Whoever launched the DDoS can just keep firing away. If ESEA works with its ISP to mitigate the attack upstream, the attacker can likely just start a new attack from an entirely new set of hosts. And finding the attacker is extremely difficult. A site I use for coding, GitHub, raised 100 million dollars recently and even with all the computing power and brain power they can hire, they're still taken completely offline by DDoS attacks.
I don't know how ESEA is deployed and managed, but it might be best if they could easily and dynamically set up and tear down new servers on Amazon EC2 or Rackspace or wherever they're hosted. Start by making an image of a currently running server. So you'd have a one-off server for a match, and you'd only let its IP be known to the players and whoever's running the STV, who would have to play with Steam chat closed. Obviously not ideal, but...
A DDoS isn't like a streaker because a streaker is caught and thrown out. And it's not like a rain delay in that the clouds eventually pass over.
Whoever launched the DDoS can just keep firing away. If ESEA works with its ISP to mitigate the attack upstream, the attacker can likely just start a new attack from an entirely new set of hosts. And finding the attacker is extremely difficult. A site I use for coding, GitHub, raised 100 million dollars recently and even with all the computing power and brain power they can hire, they're [url=https://status.github.com/messages/2013-08-29]still taken completely offline by DDoS attacks[/url].
I don't know how ESEA is deployed and managed, but it might be best if they could easily and dynamically set up and tear down new servers on Amazon EC2 or Rackspace or wherever they're hosted. Start by making an image of a currently running server. So you'd have a one-off server for a match, and you'd only let its IP be known to the players and whoever's running the STV, who would have to play with Steam chat closed. Obviously not ideal, but...
kalkin wouldn't let us play off client and hes saying they're working on something to avoid ddos attacks tomorrow
kalkin wouldn't let us play off client and hes saying they're working on something to avoid ddos attacks tomorrow
I get where everyone's coming from about doing it off-client, and I agree that that's how it should have been handled. However, I can also understand ESEA's position - another TF2 final had to be played off-client already, and having 2 finals in as many weeks not be played on ESEA's terms makes them look pretty bad. God forbid someone should think that ESEA has bad servers and DDOS mitigation!
I get where everyone's coming from about doing it off-client, and I agree that that's how it should have been handled. However, I can also understand ESEA's position - another TF2 final had to be played off-client already, and having 2 finals in as many weeks not be played on ESEA's terms makes them look pretty bad. God forbid someone should think that ESEA has bad servers and DDOS mitigation!
LazyPandaIf you 100% need a solution, I think you could fix it by:
Using a non-esea server, any random server will do as long as only the person in charge knows what it is.
Send the IP of the server to the players, and the IP of the STV to the casters ONLY. Nobody else would get this IP.
Everyone involved would go offline on steam before joining the server so that nobody can tell what the server IP is.
It might suck for spectators and a lot of people who want to use the stv, but that way only the people who need the info would have it.
I'm not actually sure that this would work, but the DDoSers need the IP of the server to DDoS it correct? This would solve that issue
Great idea except anyone on your friends list can get the IP address. Not how this can be stopped. You can't really unfriend everyone because you have a match.
Pretty sure if you go offline on steam you loose loadout.
[quote=LazyPanda]If you 100% need a solution, I think you could fix it by:
Using a non-esea server, any random server will do as long as only the person in charge knows what it is.
Send the IP of the server to the players, and the IP of the STV to the casters ONLY. Nobody else would get this IP.
Everyone involved would go offline on steam before joining the server so that nobody can tell what the server IP is.
It might suck for spectators and a lot of people who want to use the stv, but that way only the people who need the info would have it.
I'm not actually sure that this would work, but the DDoSers need the IP of the server to DDoS it correct? This would solve that issue[/quote]
Great idea except anyone on your friends list can get the IP address. Not how this can be stopped. You can't really unfriend everyone because you have a match.
Pretty sure if you go offline on steam you loose loadout.
AndKennethGreat idea except anyone on your friends list can get the IP address. Not how this can be stopped. You can't really unfriend everyone because you have a match.
Pretty sure if you go offline on steam you loose loadout.
Wrong. If they go offline before joining the server like Lazy said no one would be able to get the IP. You don't lose loadout from being offline on steam, I play that way all the time so I don't get bothered by trading idiots.
[quote=AndKenneth]
Great idea except anyone on your friends list can get the IP address. Not how this can be stopped. You can't really unfriend everyone because you have a match.
Pretty sure if you go offline on steam you loose loadout.[/quote]
Wrong. If they go offline before joining the server like Lazy said no one would be able to get the IP. You don't lose loadout from being offline on steam, I play that way all the time so I don't get bothered by trading idiots.