sadly this fact seems to get past most europeans

the ability to potentially escape after a pick apparently

puff n sting allowed in 6s :/

It adds by making a spy "sell" himself to the enemy team in order to make his pick, instead of running across the open ground hoping to make it.

The Cliff's Notes version: The Spy knows he doesn't belong in the enemy team. But if he can fool them into thinking he belongs long enough, he can maneuver into a position to make his pick AND get away. While it can be done with the stock knife the Kunai gives added incentive in the reduced health, if anybody sneezes on a Kunai spy he dies. So he has to avoid arousing suspicion before his pick attempt, his reward in exchange is gaining health. That allows him an opportunity to either get another pick or surf away on the damage thrown his way.

Is it all doable with the stock knife? Yes, however a death while carrying either knife has the same result: They know your team is a man down now. However if you escape with your life you become far more dangerous than before they knew you were a spy. And the Kunai makes it easier to get away after a successful pick than with the stock knife.

+might get a revolver pick after stab
-if you eat spam you'll die (but flicker means you might be fucked anyway

the upsides and downsides are so small it doesn't matter that much imo

i was under the impression that once they know you have a spy, you are completely useless?

That's assuming your team is unable to take advantage of the enemy's paranoia, for a few moments after the escape they will have to spycheck to make sure he doesn't get another pick. At a minimum this will slow them down and give your team a little bit of momentum, at most it will provide a window to push into the enemy team while they're wasting time. Small note: a well-organized team will be better equipped to take this advantage.

The confusion is caused by ETF2L's previous stance on unlocks - only allow things that have proven to be useful in ESEA (more or less). The next logical step would either be to allow things that can be useful (aka degreaser/flare/ax) but not viable full time or blatantly overpowered (so no sandvich/quickfix/jarate/vitasaw), or to allow everything that isn't overpowered, regardless of how useful it may be (similar to what ESEA's does, allowing many weapons like the huntsman). However, they seem to have gone with an odd mix, allowing very few unlocks, half of which are useful (degreaser, etc), and half of which are completely useless/never seen (black box, kunai).

can we not call it puff n sting

that sounds so painfully forced

why not "heat and greet"

how about "wow i cant believe i fucking died to that shitstain class I SURE WISH I GOT FREE CRITS FOR HITTING PEOPLE WITH MY PRIMARY."

why not unban the powerjack instead of the axtinguisher.

I know there's a time difference between NA and EU, but months behind is pretty bad

unban the reserve shooter, give it to every class

new jumpless meta

I'm sure all of you will regret saying all this when you see just how strong the pyro can be with that combo. The degreaser+flare+ax combo can be more efficient at taking out enemy meds than even scouts and roamers.

Overall I think this update is aimed at bringing more people into 6v6 which I suppose is a good thing.

I support this statement

also without the powerjack would pyros even be viable in 6s other than reflecting on last?

I'm confused as to how you kill an ubered pyro on a last defense, which was the entire point of grape's post.

It's a forum, you should probably actually read the posts.

okay pyro is good, but its not that good.
at close quarters, or if he gets a good flank,id even say pyro is straight up broken.
however, a pyro cant beat a scout and roamer at killing a medic in all situations, they just dont have the same maneuverability that those other classes offer, even with the powerjack.

:]

Unless they are ubered it takes 2 seconds to focus a pyro, which in most situations at least here in EU if a team is running a pyro is because they have uber disadvantage, in that situation uber in with the scouts, takes a WHOLE 2 seonds to kill it, WOW big deal!

Also, you can't kill any ubered player, might as well complain about uber being OP if that's the reasoning you're taking.

I read all the posts its not like Im talking out of my ass, if they get uber while you're pushing and the pyro is still alive, that's your team problem, you weren't able to deal with the pyro in time now face the consequences, if they already got uber when you pushed that's another completely different story, anyway it's a defense as valid as others and as easily countered as others.

Compared to a few years ago, the way we play TF2 in NA isn't all that much different than how EU plays anymore. I'm not sure why people are expecting this to turn into something stupid when pyros aren't THAT big of a deal here.

Maybe so, but I'm not sure this is worth being a slow fragile class with a relatively shitty gun since their awareness basically negates you.

I'd say getting out as a Spy, outside of if the Spy's team is holding last, is something the vast majority of Spies don't do, instead trying for facestabs or point blank revolver poking.

I feel like if paranoia is so great, people would just not disguise and be like 'HI I AM A SPY YOU SHOULD BE PARANOID" instead of doing everything they can, like crouchwalking with cnd and disguising as friendly Sniper and not using DR, to ensure that the enemy does NOT expect it.

I suppose it all comes down to whether a slow fragile weak class right now is better than a fast powerful class in like 10-20 seconds. But most people, from what I have seen, pick the latter.