Niko_JimsExTv: 642 YT subscribers and 6,028 Twitch.tv followers.
eXtv have 72k youtube subscribers..
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TF2 Stream Viewership
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[quote=Niko_Jims]ExTv: 642 YT subscribers and 6,028 Twitch.tv followers.[/quote]
eXtv have 72k youtube subscribers..
eXtv have 72k youtube subscribers..
synchroIt gets said every time this sort of thread pops about, but it's worth noting again: competitive TF2 is a pretty small fraction of the TF2 player base.
If every starting player of every ESEA team this season played the game today, that's still less than 1% of the daily concurrent TF2 players - which itself is less than 13% of the DotA2 players.
The reason these numbers are important are because, even at the most generous numbers for highlander players, retired players, etc., the number of competitive TF2 players is most likely still under 5% of the total TF2 player base, and competitive TF2 is not the same as regular pub TF2. The distinction here is that DotA, LoL, SC2, etc. all have the same game being played between pub games and comp. games.
So that being said, the typical person watching a stream of a game is probably(and this part is totally my own assumption) a player of that game, or at least somebody interested in playing it. This means that less than 5% of the total TF2 player base (which, again, is tiny compared to most other popular streaming games) is probably even interested in these streams to begin with. As you said, LANs and such change this a little bit, but the unfortunate fact of the matter is simply that the viewers just don't exist. Sad, but true.
But the thing that really bugs me is how the pub streams are virtually non-existant, 90% or more of stream viewers on tf2 are on competitive streams. I know the competitive community is a small fraction of the whole playerbase but still, it is really odd not to have consistent or big pub streamers, STAR_ was streaming the other day, I saw he had around 1k stream viewers, a laughable number compared to the 300k subscribers he has on youtube.
The competitive community would benefit a lot from pub streamers putting the game out there and making it noticeable for other players as well.
TF2 having a tenth on CS:GO numbers in viewers despite having almost double the playerbase is strange at minimum, even if the competitive is completely different from pub, its still strange there are no popular casual pub streamers.
If our streams have really "sticky" content as john said, I can't really get why we aren't seeing bigger and more noticeable increases in accordance to the amount of content that is being put out there, which is definitely a lot bigger than some years or even months ago.
[quote=synchro]It gets said every time this sort of thread pops about, but it's worth noting again: [b]competitive TF2 is a pretty small fraction of the TF2 player base[/b].
If every starting player of every ESEA team this season played the game today, that's still less than 1% of the daily concurrent TF2 players - which itself is less than 13% of the DotA2 players.
The reason these numbers are important are because, even at the most generous numbers for highlander players, retired players, etc., the number of competitive TF2 players is most likely still under 5% of the total TF2 player base, and competitive TF2[b] is not the same[/b] as regular pub TF2. The distinction here is that DotA, LoL, SC2, etc. all have the same game being played between pub games and comp. games.
So that being said, the typical person watching a stream of a game is probably(and this part is totally my own assumption) a player of that game, or at least somebody interested in playing it. This means that less than 5% of the total TF2 player base (which, again, is tiny compared to most other popular streaming games) is probably even interested in these streams to begin with. As you said, LANs and such change this a little bit, but the unfortunate fact of the matter is simply that the viewers just don't exist. Sad, but true.[/quote]
But the thing that really bugs me is how the pub streams are virtually non-existant, 90% or more of stream viewers on tf2 are on competitive streams. I know the competitive community is a small fraction of the whole playerbase but still, it is really odd not to have consistent or big pub streamers, STAR_ was streaming the other day, I saw he had around 1k stream viewers, a laughable number compared to the 300k subscribers he has on youtube.
The competitive community would benefit a lot from pub streamers putting the game out there and making it noticeable for other players as well.
TF2 having a tenth on CS:GO numbers in viewers despite having almost double the playerbase is strange at minimum, even if the competitive is completely different from pub, its still strange there are no popular casual pub streamers.
If our streams have really "sticky" content as john said, I can't really get why we aren't seeing bigger and more noticeable increases in accordance to the amount of content that is being put out there, which is definitely a lot bigger than some years or even months ago.
If every starting player of every ESEA team this season played the game today, that's still less than 1% of the daily concurrent TF2 players - which itself is less than 13% of the DotA2 players.
The reason these numbers are important are because, even at the most generous numbers for highlander players, retired players, etc., the number of competitive TF2 players is most likely still under 5% of the total TF2 player base, and competitive TF2[b] is not the same[/b] as regular pub TF2. The distinction here is that DotA, LoL, SC2, etc. all have the same game being played between pub games and comp. games.
So that being said, the typical person watching a stream of a game is probably(and this part is totally my own assumption) a player of that game, or at least somebody interested in playing it. This means that less than 5% of the total TF2 player base (which, again, is tiny compared to most other popular streaming games) is probably even interested in these streams to begin with. As you said, LANs and such change this a little bit, but the unfortunate fact of the matter is simply that the viewers just don't exist. Sad, but true.[/quote]
But the thing that really bugs me is how the pub streams are virtually non-existant, 90% or more of stream viewers on tf2 are on competitive streams. I know the competitive community is a small fraction of the whole playerbase but still, it is really odd not to have consistent or big pub streamers, STAR_ was streaming the other day, I saw he had around 1k stream viewers, a laughable number compared to the 300k subscribers he has on youtube.
The competitive community would benefit a lot from pub streamers putting the game out there and making it noticeable for other players as well.
TF2 having a tenth on CS:GO numbers in viewers despite having almost double the playerbase is strange at minimum, even if the competitive is completely different from pub, its still strange there are no popular casual pub streamers.
If our streams have really "sticky" content as john said, I can't really get why we aren't seeing bigger and more noticeable increases in accordance to the amount of content that is being put out there, which is definitely a lot bigger than some years or even months ago.
decapNiko_JimsExTv: 642 YT subscribers and 6,028 Twitch.tv followers.
eXtv have 72k youtube subscribers..
Huh, it definitely did not say that when I checked it earlier.
Oh, I went to their eXtelevision and not the CommFT. Oops.
[quote=decap][quote=Niko_Jims]ExTv: 642 YT subscribers and 6,028 Twitch.tv followers.[/quote]
eXtv have 72k youtube subscribers..[/quote]
Huh, it definitely did not say that when I checked it earlier.
Oh, I went to their eXtelevision and not the CommFT. Oops.
eXtv have 72k youtube subscribers..[/quote]
Huh, it definitely did not say that when I checked it earlier.
Oh, I went to their eXtelevision and not the CommFT. Oops.
KanecoSTAR_ was streaming the other day, I saw he had around 1k stream viewers, a laughable number compared to the 300k subscribers he has on youtube.
well he only has 16k followers on twitch, and having 1/16th of your followers be watching you live is more than most of the twitch streamers get
There isn't much to say, all of the points have been made 1. There is almost no way for random people / pubbers to find the twitch.tv/teamfortresstv competitive scene and 2. there has been no real plan of action or working action to expand the comp scene past streaming and teamfortresstv which undoubtedly has done a ton for the scene, but there would have to be some new big thing to attract a ton of attention
[quote=Kaneco]STAR_ was streaming the other day, I saw he had around 1k stream viewers, a laughable number compared to the 300k subscribers he has on youtube.[/quote]
well he only has 16k followers on twitch, and having 1/16th of your followers be watching you live is more than most of the twitch streamers get
There isn't much to say, all of the points have been made 1. There is almost no way for random people / pubbers to find the twitch.tv/teamfortresstv competitive scene and 2. there has been no real plan of action or working action to expand the comp scene past streaming and teamfortresstv which undoubtedly has done a ton for the scene, but there would have to be some new big thing to attract a ton of attention
well he only has 16k followers on twitch, and having 1/16th of your followers be watching you live is more than most of the twitch streamers get
There isn't much to say, all of the points have been made 1. There is almost no way for random people / pubbers to find the twitch.tv/teamfortresstv competitive scene and 2. there has been no real plan of action or working action to expand the comp scene past streaming and teamfortresstv which undoubtedly has done a ton for the scene, but there would have to be some new big thing to attract a ton of attention
Why do you care about the numbers individuals pull? That's more to do with how entertaining they are not what they're playing. What matter are the numbers our sponsored shout casts pull. And they pull four to five times more than they did a bit over a year ago. I don't think we're doing bad at all.
Why do you care about the numbers individuals pull? That's more to do with how entertaining they are not what they're playing. What matter are the numbers our sponsored shout casts pull. And they pull four to five times more than they did a bit over a year ago. I don't think we're doing bad at all.
There are plenty other FPS games being streamed constantly and many of them gather a consistent following, bigger than tf2 infact.
Not really. FPS as a whole is a fairly dead genre, and while games like Battlefield 4, CSGO and probably whatever the newest COD is have more viewers, that's really to be expected because they're much more recent games with existing popular franchises.
I'm not trying to say as a community TF2 should stop bothering with increasing stream views and exposure, but I think there's 2 main points to keep in mind:
1.) TF2 is 5 years old. This is impressive, seriously look at the stream views numbers again and try keeping how current the game is in mind. You'll see the occasional OoT or something because Cosmo or another popular speed runner is streaming, but almost every popular game is recent.
2.) FPS is no longer one of the leading competitive genres like it was a decade ago. You say that there are other FPS with larger more consistent viewer bases. There's like 2 or 3, and they are COD, BF, and CS. That being said, it's rare for an FPS to even be top 5 games played unless it was released within the same month or two.
TL;DR I'd say TF2 has probably one of the biggest communities for a 5 year old game
[quote]There are plenty other FPS games being streamed constantly and many of them gather a consistent following, bigger than tf2 infact.[/quote]Not really. FPS as a whole is a fairly dead genre, and while games like Battlefield 4, CSGO and probably whatever the newest COD is have more viewers, that's really to be expected because they're much more recent games with existing popular franchises.
I'm not trying to say as a community TF2 should stop bothering with increasing stream views and exposure, but I think there's 2 main points to keep in mind:
1.) TF2 is 5 years old. This is impressive, seriously look at the stream views numbers again and try keeping how current the game is in mind. You'll see the occasional OoT or something because Cosmo or another popular speed runner is streaming, but almost every popular game is recent.
2.) FPS is no longer one of the leading competitive genres like it was a decade ago. You say that there are other FPS with larger more consistent viewer bases. There's like 2 or 3, and they are COD, BF, and CS. That being said, it's rare for an FPS to even be top 5 games played unless it was released within the same month or two.
TL;DR I'd say TF2 has probably one of the biggest communities for a 5 year old game
I'm not trying to say as a community TF2 should stop bothering with increasing stream views and exposure, but I think there's 2 main points to keep in mind:
1.) TF2 is 5 years old. This is impressive, seriously look at the stream views numbers again and try keeping how current the game is in mind. You'll see the occasional OoT or something because Cosmo or another popular speed runner is streaming, but almost every popular game is recent.
2.) FPS is no longer one of the leading competitive genres like it was a decade ago. You say that there are other FPS with larger more consistent viewer bases. There's like 2 or 3, and they are COD, BF, and CS. That being said, it's rare for an FPS to even be top 5 games played unless it was released within the same month or two.
TL;DR I'd say TF2 has probably one of the biggest communities for a 5 year old game
Pander to the casual players. Run silly loadouts. Seeing a person pubstomp with a terrible loadout might make them interested in comp tf2 and check out the site legitimately.
Pander to the casual players. Run silly loadouts. Seeing a person pubstomp with a terrible loadout might make them interested in comp tf2 and check out the site legitimately.
tf2 was never meant to be a competitive game for the masses. it's not an easy sell to most people with so many map/item restrictions.
tf2 was never meant to be a competitive game for the masses. it's not an easy sell to most people with so many map/item restrictions.
Honestly, i know this horse has been beaten to death but any help from Valve to promote the competitive scene would help the viewer numbers greatly. Look at Dota 2 for example, and how much they focus on the eSports aspect of things there.
I'm not saying this is the only solution. Our community has survived because of the awesomeness of everyone in it so far, but in terms of growth i think support from valve would go a long way. Promoting big events. Embedded streams. Any mention of competitive at all in the main menu. A competitive lobby system. The list goes on..
Honestly, i know this horse has been beaten to death but any help from Valve to promote the competitive scene would help the viewer numbers greatly. Look at Dota 2 for example, and how much they focus on the eSports aspect of things there.
I'm not saying this is the only solution. Our community has survived because of the awesomeness of everyone in it so far, but in terms of growth i think support from valve would go a long way. Promoting big events. Embedded streams. Any mention of competitive at all in the main menu. A competitive lobby system. The list goes on..
I'm not saying this is the only solution. Our community has survived because of the awesomeness of everyone in it so far, but in terms of growth i think support from valve would go a long way. Promoting big events. Embedded streams. Any mention of competitive at all in the main menu. A competitive lobby system. The list goes on..
Kinda wanna know why Prototypes, Jas, and oov are gettin' the -frags because there's plenty of truth in their statements.
1. TF2 is fuckin' boring to watch unless you have a legitimate vested interest in the players who are playing. Not even going into match and LAN delays waiting for all 12 people to get ready, holding and defending are two of the most boring aspects of this entire game. Even in CS, a slow game in regards to player movement (ie. walking = no footsteps), you're not gonna have to wait four or so minutes for the next piece of action to happen because someone's around a corner with an M4.
2. While we've got 50 teams in Open alone this season, the point that we're a tiny niche in comparison to TF2 at large stands strong. People don't care about the game because Valve has turned the front page of it into trading and 24/7 chokepoint "feel good about yourself for being able to shoot down a narrow hallway with your dildo-covered hat" map servers. Most anyone who honestly cared about playing this game as a team in pub servers left a long time ago. TF2 is easily on forced life support with how sharp the degradation in community quality has been these past years.
3. People who actually care about comp play want to watch big names who are in the big leagues (or who have been) stream their games and cameradudes stream big matches. Everyone else ranges from 2 to 6 viewers at best from what I see in the sidebar.
Kinda wanna know why Prototypes, Jas, and oov are gettin' the -frags because there's plenty of truth in their statements.
1. TF2 [i][u]is[/u][/i] fuckin' boring to watch unless you have a legitimate vested interest in the players who are playing. Not even going into match and LAN delays waiting for all 12 people to get ready, holding and defending are two of the most boring aspects of this entire game. Even in CS, a slow game in regards to player movement (ie. walking = no footsteps), you're not gonna have to wait four or so minutes for the next piece of action to happen because someone's around a corner with an M4.
2. While we've got 50 teams in Open alone this season, the point that we're a tiny niche in comparison to TF2 at large stands strong. People don't care about the game because Valve has turned the front page of it into trading and 24/7 chokepoint "feel good about yourself for being able to shoot down a narrow hallway with your dildo-covered hat" map servers. Most anyone who honestly cared about playing this game as a team in pub servers left a long time ago. TF2 is easily on forced life support with how sharp the degradation in community quality has been these past years.
3. People who actually care about comp play want to watch big names who are in the big leagues (or who have been) stream their games and cameradudes stream big matches. Everyone else ranges from 2 to 6 viewers at best from what I see in the sidebar.
1. TF2 [i][u]is[/u][/i] fuckin' boring to watch unless you have a legitimate vested interest in the players who are playing. Not even going into match and LAN delays waiting for all 12 people to get ready, holding and defending are two of the most boring aspects of this entire game. Even in CS, a slow game in regards to player movement (ie. walking = no footsteps), you're not gonna have to wait four or so minutes for the next piece of action to happen because someone's around a corner with an M4.
2. While we've got 50 teams in Open alone this season, the point that we're a tiny niche in comparison to TF2 at large stands strong. People don't care about the game because Valve has turned the front page of it into trading and 24/7 chokepoint "feel good about yourself for being able to shoot down a narrow hallway with your dildo-covered hat" map servers. Most anyone who honestly cared about playing this game as a team in pub servers left a long time ago. TF2 is easily on forced life support with how sharp the degradation in community quality has been these past years.
3. People who actually care about comp play want to watch big names who are in the big leagues (or who have been) stream their games and cameradudes stream big matches. Everyone else ranges from 2 to 6 viewers at best from what I see in the sidebar.
Great thread, but I think you've already hit upon the answer(s). TF2 really is not a game that attracts viewers to a stream.
-It is not competitive, for the majority of players, so they can't watch the best players and think they're learning something. They can't even apply what they see in a stream to pubs, as it's mostly motor-skills/FPS related stuff. Dota streams benefit from the fact that players are always trying to get better, and can do so by watching videos. TF2 doesn't have that, aside from a very small subset of the community.
-Spectator mode is nonexistent. In-game spectator tools and developer support/promotion is almost non-existent. You can't blame Valve for this. They have a right to take their game in the direction they want, and the statistics are behind them. TF2 is for casuals.
-Streams aren't always fun to watch. Shoutcasting and the competitive scene appeal only to those players who have played competitive. That's just a sliver of TF2's total players. There are a couple reasons for this. First, the competitive format is too different from the pub format. Valve tried to address this in the talks with Sal a while back but it received a very strong blowback from the community. Second, there's no means of promoting competitive content to the average player, partially due to Valve not wanting to get involved.
To the best players in the game and the most popular streamers, I ask this: When you think about it, is there really anything you have to teach a pubstomper? Nobody cares about proper pushing and uber dynamics and the relative strength of a scout versus a soldier in different parts of a map when they are playing a pub. I don't think about planning a scout-led uber push when I'm flying 200 feet above Badlands mid, caber in hand.
If there is nothing you can teach to the pub audience, what else can you offer? Aside from learning, people watch Dota streams to see high-skilled play and because they're funny. We have both of those in TF2, but it seems it's not enough.
Edit: Reading the other responses, I've got another point. Comp players here have a very elitist attitude. I'm not saying you're wrong to complain about hats. If you want to attract this audience, though, you have to stop insulting them. Aside from a select few, we all began as pubstompers. You may like to flame these clowns, but it's yourself you're alienating.
Great thread, but I think you've already hit upon the answer(s). TF2 really is not a game that attracts viewers to a stream.
-It is not competitive, for the majority of players, so they can't watch the best players and think they're learning something. They can't even apply what they see in a stream to pubs, as it's mostly motor-skills/FPS related stuff. Dota streams benefit from the fact that players are always trying to get better, and can do so by watching videos. TF2 doesn't have that, aside from a very small subset of the community.
-Spectator mode is nonexistent. In-game spectator tools and developer support/promotion is almost non-existent. You can't blame Valve for this. They have a right to take their game in the direction they want, and the statistics are behind them. TF2 is for casuals.
-Streams aren't always fun to watch. Shoutcasting and the competitive scene appeal only to those players who have played competitive. That's just a sliver of TF2's total players. There are a couple reasons for this. First, the competitive format is too different from the pub format. Valve tried to address this in the talks with Sal a while back but it received a very strong blowback from the community. Second, there's no means of promoting competitive content to the average player, partially due to Valve not wanting to get involved.
To the best players in the game and the most popular streamers, I ask this: When you think about it, is there really anything you have to teach a pubstomper? Nobody cares about proper pushing and uber dynamics and the relative strength of a scout versus a soldier in different parts of a map when they are playing a pub. I don't think about planning a scout-led uber push when I'm flying 200 feet above Badlands mid, caber in hand.
If there is nothing you can teach to the pub audience, what else can you offer? Aside from learning, people watch Dota streams to see high-skilled play and because they're funny. We have both of those in TF2, but it seems it's not enough.
Edit: Reading the other responses, I've got another point. Comp players here have a very elitist attitude. I'm not saying you're wrong to complain about hats. If you want to attract this audience, though, you have to stop insulting them. Aside from a select few, we all began as pubstompers. You may like to flame these clowns, but it's yourself you're alienating.
-It is not competitive, for the majority of players, so they can't watch the best players and think they're learning something. They can't even apply what they see in a stream to pubs, as it's mostly motor-skills/FPS related stuff. Dota streams benefit from the fact that players are always trying to get better, and can do so by watching videos. TF2 doesn't have that, aside from a very small subset of the community.
-Spectator mode is nonexistent. In-game spectator tools and developer support/promotion is almost non-existent. You can't blame Valve for this. They have a right to take their game in the direction they want, and the statistics are behind them. TF2 is for casuals.
-Streams aren't always fun to watch. Shoutcasting and the competitive scene appeal only to those players who have played competitive. That's just a sliver of TF2's total players. There are a couple reasons for this. First, the competitive format is too different from the pub format. Valve tried to address this in the talks with Sal a while back but it received a very strong blowback from the community. Second, there's no means of promoting competitive content to the average player, partially due to Valve not wanting to get involved.
To the best players in the game and the most popular streamers, I ask this: When you think about it, is there really anything you have to teach a pubstomper? Nobody cares about proper pushing and uber dynamics and the relative strength of a scout versus a soldier in different parts of a map when they are playing a pub. I don't think about planning a scout-led uber push when I'm flying 200 feet above Badlands mid, caber in hand.
If there is nothing you can teach to the pub audience, what else can you offer? Aside from learning, people watch Dota streams to see high-skilled play and because they're funny. We have both of those in TF2, but it seems it's not enough.
Edit: Reading the other responses, I've got another point. Comp players here have a very elitist attitude. I'm not saying you're wrong to complain about hats. If you want to attract this audience, though, you have to stop insulting them. Aside from a select few, we all began as pubstompers. You may like to flame these clowns, but it's yourself you're alienating.
Twitch John is away on every adult's fantasy holiday - http://instagram.com/p/fWbeO1LKiX/#
Twitch John is away on every adult's fantasy holiday - http://instagram.com/p/fWbeO1LKiX/#
Ma3laaKanecoSTAR_ was streaming the other day, I saw he had around 1k stream viewers, a laughable number compared to the 300k subscribers he has on youtube.
well he only has 16k followers on twitch, and having 1/16th of your followers be watching you live is more than most of the twitch streamers get
If star actually uploaded a video on YT when he started streaming he would get a lot more viewers. Most people who watch his stream are a part of those followers he has.
[quote=Ma3laa][quote=Kaneco]STAR_ was streaming the other day, I saw he had around 1k stream viewers, a laughable number compared to the 300k subscribers he has on youtube.[/quote]
well he only has 16k followers on twitch, and having 1/16th of your followers be watching you live is more than most of the twitch streamers get
[/quote]
If star actually uploaded a video on YT when he started streaming he would get a lot more viewers. Most people who watch his stream are a part of those followers he has.
well he only has 16k followers on twitch, and having 1/16th of your followers be watching you live is more than most of the twitch streamers get
[/quote]
If star actually uploaded a video on YT when he started streaming he would get a lot more viewers. Most people who watch his stream are a part of those followers he has.
I think the difference between watching tf2 and Dota, for example, is the kind of mental involvement the viewers have. I've been playing Dota recently and quickly learned that it's only fun if you win. In 6v6 tf2 you can have huge fun losing 5-1, enjoying many moments pitting your skill against theirs. I think this encourages in Dota players a more team-oriented attitude where you're forced to think strategically, because you need to win or it's miserable. So when they watch streams they can have a lot of fun engaging in strategic thoughts. 6v6 tf2 has a more elegant metagame that can be modelled with fluid dynamics (I see it as like football (soccer) and Epsilon as like Barcelona), but even as I play with better players there are few who see it in terms other than dm plus an ability to press tab. So when they watch, they're being less stimulated than when they watch Dota.
I think the difference between watching tf2 and Dota, for example, is the kind of mental involvement the viewers have. I've been playing Dota recently and quickly learned that it's only fun if you win. In 6v6 tf2 you can have huge fun losing 5-1, enjoying many moments pitting your skill against theirs. I think this encourages in Dota players a more team-oriented attitude where you're forced to think strategically, because you need to win or it's miserable. So when they watch streams they can have a lot of fun engaging in strategic thoughts. 6v6 tf2 has a more elegant metagame that can be modelled with fluid dynamics (I see it as like football (soccer) and Epsilon as like Barcelona), but even as I play with better players there are few who see it in terms other than dm plus an ability to press tab. So when they watch, they're being less stimulated than when they watch Dota.
Highlander is called an organized pub as an insult. Why should pubbers care about competitive tf2?
Highlander is called an organized pub as an insult. Why should pubbers care about competitive tf2?
is there any possibility of tf.tv hooking up with UGC and their website? I envisioned them having a live stream of the monday HL match eXTV stream on the UGC site. maybe even have the teams playing the match play a bit later in the night so the other highlander players could watch (this would probably mess up scrim schedules for 6's players, though)?
just thinking out loud, here. teamfortress.tv is obviously the competitive hub for 6's, so i think it would benefit viewership to get this website and the HL week of the match stream shown on the website affiliated most with highlander (UGC). makes sense as HL is the easiest/most natural transition for pub players to get into the competitive scene. this could potentially bring new people watching the tf.tv/eXTV HL stream on the UGC website into tf.tv as a forum/central hub for competitive streams, thus potentially increasing both stream viewer count and interest in the tf2 competitive scene.
it would also be great if we could organize events with some of the well known pub communities such as skial. any ideas on how this would look?
moral of the story is that i think sixes (most notably ESEA), highlander (most notably UGC), and popular pub communities need to link up as frequently as possible to maximize the exposure of competitive tf2 in all of it's facets: 6v6, 9v9, friday night fights, newbie mixes, etc. -- this will all inevitably lead to a higher viewer count for tf2 streams.
valve isn't exactly doing the competitive scene any favors (probably a gross understatement), so it's important to partner up whenever possible as i think everyone can agree we all have a collective interest in seeing this game grow.
edited for grammar/punctuation - might still be confusing as i am a tad sleepless.
is there any possibility of tf.tv hooking up with UGC and their website? I envisioned them having a live stream of the monday HL match eXTV stream on the UGC site. maybe even have the teams playing the match play a bit later in the night so the other highlander players could watch (this would probably mess up scrim schedules for 6's players, though)?
just thinking out loud, here. teamfortress.tv is obviously the competitive hub for 6's, so i think it would benefit viewership to get this website and the HL week of the match stream shown on the website affiliated most with highlander (UGC). makes sense as HL is the easiest/most natural transition for pub players to get into the competitive scene. this could potentially bring new people watching the tf.tv/eXTV HL stream on the UGC website into tf.tv as a forum/central hub for competitive streams, thus potentially increasing both stream viewer count and interest in the tf2 competitive scene.
it would also be great if we could organize events with some of the well known pub communities such as skial. any ideas on how this would look?
moral of the story is that i think sixes (most notably ESEA), highlander (most notably UGC), and popular pub communities need to link up as frequently as possible to maximize the exposure of competitive tf2 in all of it's facets: 6v6, 9v9, friday night fights, newbie mixes, etc. -- this will all inevitably lead to a higher viewer count for tf2 streams.
valve isn't exactly doing the competitive scene any favors (probably a gross understatement), so it's important to partner up whenever possible as i think everyone can agree we all have a collective interest in seeing this game grow.
edited for grammar/punctuation - might still be confusing as i am a tad sleepless.
just thinking out loud, here. teamfortress.tv is obviously the competitive hub for 6's, so i think it would benefit viewership to get this website and the HL week of the match stream shown on the website affiliated most with highlander (UGC). makes sense as HL is the easiest/most natural transition for pub players to get into the competitive scene. this could potentially bring new people watching the tf.tv/eXTV HL stream on the UGC website into tf.tv as a forum/central hub for competitive streams, thus potentially increasing both stream viewer count and interest in the tf2 competitive scene.
it would also be great if we could organize events with some of the well known pub communities such as skial. any ideas on how this would look?
moral of the story is that i think sixes (most notably ESEA), highlander (most notably UGC), and popular pub communities need to link up as frequently as possible to maximize the exposure of competitive tf2 in all of it's facets: 6v6, 9v9, friday night fights, newbie mixes, etc. -- this will all inevitably lead to a higher viewer count for tf2 streams.
valve isn't exactly doing the competitive scene any favors (probably a gross understatement), so it's important to partner up whenever possible as i think everyone can agree we all have a collective interest in seeing this game grow.
edited for grammar/punctuation - might still be confusing as i am a tad sleepless.
Obviously the best and easiest course of action here would be to get official support from valve, whether it is by adding a spec friendly mode, a ingame matchmaking option, ingame scene news / streams or whatever it is, but of course all that seems a very remote possibility even after sal and extine went over there.
But we can still do the best we can to put ourselves out there, we have been doing a great job for sure, but there is some stuff that could be rethinked or improved, ie: attracting more casual / pub players to view streams whether they are comp or not, I see this is a great possibility that hasn't been explored too much. Being through pubs or spuf or whatever options out there.
I actually had no idea competitive existed until someone mentioned it on a pub, then I started watching streams/compnews and playing a few lobbies and one day the portuguese community decided to start a portuguese league and this guy (san alex) went on asking one by one the pub players if they were interested or not, about 6-7 teams were put together by the admins by completely new players to the scene and today there are probably 30-40 more portuguese competitive players thanks to that one single thing and I am one of them, there is still a lot to explore in terms of attracting casual players, whether it is to watch streams or even to start playing competitive.
Obviously the best and easiest course of action here would be to get official support from valve, whether it is by adding a spec friendly mode, a ingame matchmaking option, ingame scene news / streams or whatever it is, but of course all that seems a very remote possibility even after sal and extine went over there.
But we can still do the best we can to put ourselves out there, we have been doing a great job for sure, but there is some stuff that could be rethinked or improved, ie: attracting more casual / pub players to view streams whether they are comp or not, I see this is a great possibility that hasn't been explored too much. Being through pubs or spuf or whatever options out there.
I actually had no idea competitive existed until someone mentioned it on a pub, then I started watching streams/compnews and playing a few lobbies and one day the portuguese community decided to start a portuguese league and this guy (san alex) went on asking one by one the pub players if they were interested or not, about 6-7 teams were put together by the admins by completely new players to the scene and today there are probably 30-40 more portuguese competitive players thanks to that one single thing and I am one of them, there is still a lot to explore in terms of attracting casual players, whether it is to watch streams or even to start playing competitive.
But we can still do the best we can to put ourselves out there, we have been doing a great job for sure, but there is some stuff that could be rethinked or improved, ie: attracting more casual / pub players to view streams whether they are comp or not, I see this is a great possibility that hasn't been explored too much. Being through pubs or spuf or whatever options out there.
I actually had no idea competitive existed until someone mentioned it on a pub, then I started watching streams/compnews and playing a few lobbies and one day the portuguese community decided to start a portuguese league and this guy (san alex) went on asking one by one the pub players if they were interested or not, about 6-7 teams were put together by the admins by completely new players to the scene and today there are probably 30-40 more portuguese competitive players thanks to that one single thing and I am one of them, there is still a lot to explore in terms of attracting casual players, whether it is to watch streams or even to start playing competitive.
I could practically write a book on this topic and have over a year's worth of data and graphs to back up my claims, but comparing it to other esports heres the problem.
Consistency.
That's it. It's genuinely that simple. Casts and/or games are organised far too late, teams don't have their shit together, and neither do any of the casting orgs right now. Right at the start of TFTV EU, we had games organised literally a week in advance. That gives you time to promote, get hype going, inform reddit, etc. That doesn't happen now because nothing is organised.
There's also the fact that, with the exception of Pledge, pretty much all of the original big names are gone and while there's a few newer people who're doing a great job like Slin, Spin, Mia and a few others i'm forgetting to mention, the quality of casters in general just a lot lower and you're kidding yourself on if you don't think this is the case.
The running theme throughout TF2's history has been a lack of consistency and effort. While this community is truly one of nicest, most generous and friendly communities I've ever seen, god help anyone who asks the community to do something that takes more than 30 seconds.
It was and might still be possible to sell TF2 to the masses as a major esport. Despite being 6 years old, it's very current, very popular, and most importantly is actually a good FPS game. To do though would take a near impossible u-turn on the way this community reacts to things.
/bitter rant
I could practically write a book on this topic and have over a year's worth of data and graphs to back up my claims, but comparing it to other esports heres the problem.
Consistency.
That's it. It's genuinely that simple. Casts and/or games are organised far too late, teams don't have their shit together, and neither do any of the casting orgs right now. Right at the start of TFTV EU, we had games organised literally a week in advance. That gives you time to promote, get hype going, inform reddit, etc. That doesn't happen now because nothing is organised.
There's also the fact that, with the exception of Pledge, pretty much all of the original big names are gone and while there's a few newer people who're doing a great job like Slin, Spin, Mia and a few others i'm forgetting to mention, the quality of casters in general just a lot lower and you're kidding yourself on if you don't think this is the case.
The running theme throughout TF2's history has been a lack of consistency and effort. While this community is truly one of nicest, most generous and friendly communities I've ever seen, god help anyone who asks the community to do something that takes more than 30 seconds.
It was and might still be possible to sell TF2 to the masses as a major esport. Despite being 6 years old, it's very current, very popular, and most importantly is [i]actually a good FPS game[/i]. To do though would take a near impossible u-turn on the way this community reacts to things.
/bitter rant
Consistency.
That's it. It's genuinely that simple. Casts and/or games are organised far too late, teams don't have their shit together, and neither do any of the casting orgs right now. Right at the start of TFTV EU, we had games organised literally a week in advance. That gives you time to promote, get hype going, inform reddit, etc. That doesn't happen now because nothing is organised.
There's also the fact that, with the exception of Pledge, pretty much all of the original big names are gone and while there's a few newer people who're doing a great job like Slin, Spin, Mia and a few others i'm forgetting to mention, the quality of casters in general just a lot lower and you're kidding yourself on if you don't think this is the case.
The running theme throughout TF2's history has been a lack of consistency and effort. While this community is truly one of nicest, most generous and friendly communities I've ever seen, god help anyone who asks the community to do something that takes more than 30 seconds.
It was and might still be possible to sell TF2 to the masses as a major esport. Despite being 6 years old, it's very current, very popular, and most importantly is [i]actually a good FPS game[/i]. To do though would take a near impossible u-turn on the way this community reacts to things.
/bitter rant
#48 is right, and i feel even some of the long time contributors are getting weary of being one of the few that constantly put effort into improving our community.
i'm pretty disappointed with valve for not giving more attention to our small community that is so eager to expand.
#48 is right, and i feel even some of the long time contributors are getting weary of being one of the few that constantly put effort into improving our community.
i'm pretty disappointed with valve for not giving more attention to our small community that is so eager to expand.
i'm pretty disappointed with valve for not giving more attention to our small community that is so eager to expand.
KanecoI actually had no idea competitive existed until someone mentioned it on a pub, then I started watching streams/compnews and playing a few lobbies and one day the portuguese community decided to start a portuguese league and this guy (san alex) went on asking one by one the pub players if they were interested or not, about 6-7 teams were put together by the admins by completely new players to the scene and today there are probably 30-40 more portuguese competitive players thanks to that one single thing and I am one of them, there is still a lot to explore in terms of attracting casual players, whether it is to watch streams or even to start playing competitive.
I always wished there was a way to somehow get pubbers to understand/inform that tf2 has a competitive side to it, that would be one of the easiest ways to get more people into comp tf2. I pretty much wanted to play competitive tf2 since the first 50-100 hours of playing the game but I had no idea how to get into leagues or where to even begin. So instead of trying to figure it out I kept playing dreadful pubs. After about 700-800 hours into the game I found out about tf2lobby through maybe a trading website or possibly the ugc website and started playing that. Long story short I found a team and still play comp tf2 1 and a half years later.
If there was just something as simple as valve putting up announcements for esea/etf2l/ugc games like the ones about new crates or whatever bullshit on the main menu, you'd get a lot more players willing to play comp tf2 because they know it actually exists or where to start looking for teams.
[quote=Kaneco]I actually had no idea competitive existed until someone mentioned it on a pub, then I started watching streams/compnews and playing a few lobbies and one day the portuguese community decided to start a portuguese league and this guy (san alex) went on asking one by one the pub players if they were interested or not, about 6-7 teams were put together by the admins by completely new players to the scene and today there are probably 30-40 more portuguese competitive players thanks to that one single thing and I am one of them, there is still a lot to explore in terms of attracting casual players, whether it is to watch streams or even to start playing competitive.[/quote]
I always wished there was a way to somehow get pubbers to understand/inform that tf2 has a competitive side to it, that would be one of the easiest ways to get more people into comp tf2. I pretty much wanted to play competitive tf2 since the first 50-100 hours of playing the game but I had no idea how to get into leagues or where to even begin. So instead of trying to figure it out I kept playing dreadful pubs. After about 700-800 hours into the game I found out about tf2lobby through maybe a trading website or possibly the ugc website and started playing that. Long story short I found a team and still play comp tf2 1 and a half years later.
If there was just something as simple as valve putting up announcements for esea/etf2l/ugc games like the ones about new crates or whatever bullshit on the main menu, you'd get a lot more players willing to play comp tf2 because they know it actually exists or where to start looking for teams.
I always wished there was a way to somehow get pubbers to understand/inform that tf2 has a competitive side to it, that would be one of the easiest ways to get more people into comp tf2. I pretty much wanted to play competitive tf2 since the first 50-100 hours of playing the game but I had no idea how to get into leagues or where to even begin. So instead of trying to figure it out I kept playing dreadful pubs. After about 700-800 hours into the game I found out about tf2lobby through maybe a trading website or possibly the ugc website and started playing that. Long story short I found a team and still play comp tf2 1 and a half years later.
If there was just something as simple as valve putting up announcements for esea/etf2l/ugc games like the ones about new crates or whatever bullshit on the main menu, you'd get a lot more players willing to play comp tf2 because they know it actually exists or where to start looking for teams.
What I felt TF2 streams always lacked was habit. I could never make a habit of watching TF2 streams cause there's only 2-3 hours a day per scene of good content. Every now and then a streamer will pop-up who's there every day for 6 hours for a few weeks, but aside those periods it really is 20-23cet (and whatever the NA equivalent is) and that's not even every day. If there was good streams from 4pm-midnight I'd probably have tf2 streams on most of the day even if they don't have my full focus, but since it's so sporadic what actually happens is I assume there's shit all worth watching so I watch nothing, and never notice when someone/thing good goes live. Take right now for example - the only name I even recognise is numlocked who is playing league of legends.
Also there's a piss-poor amount of top players/teams streaming their PCWs - and I mean TOP players, the household names, not just a random prem player. 2nuts is about the only player from a top team I can think of who streams regularly and it looks like dog turd cause his internet isn't really up to it.
What I felt TF2 streams always lacked was habit. I could never make a habit of watching TF2 streams cause there's only 2-3 hours a day per scene of good content. Every now and then a streamer will pop-up who's there every day for 6 hours for a few weeks, but aside those periods it really is 20-23cet (and whatever the NA equivalent is) and that's not even every day. If there was good streams from 4pm-midnight I'd probably have tf2 streams on most of the day even if they don't have my full focus, but since it's so sporadic what actually happens is I assume there's shit all worth watching so I watch nothing, and never notice when someone/thing good goes live. Take right now for example - the only name I even recognise is numlocked who is playing league of legends.
Also there's a piss-poor amount of top players/teams streaming their PCWs - and I mean TOP players, the household names, not just a random prem player. 2nuts is about the only player from a top team I can think of who streams regularly and it looks like dog turd cause his internet isn't really up to it.
Also there's a piss-poor amount of top players/teams streaming their PCWs - and I mean TOP players, the household names, not just a random prem player. 2nuts is about the only player from a top team I can think of who streams regularly and it looks like dog turd cause his internet isn't really up to it.
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