I'd rather use our current ruleset.
ETF2L North American Division
posted in
TF2 General Discussion
Tbh I'm on a fairly mid-open team and I would rather practice two maps. Makes it so you don't have to become board out of your skull all week practicing one map.
Tbh I'm on a fairly mid-open team and I would rather practice two maps. Makes it so you don't have to become board out of your skull all week practicing one map.
wow no one does stuff like that in eu :P tbh doesn't this scheduling stuff happen in esea anyway if not worse? in whatever league I guess there'd always be ways to fuck up shit and I don't think it's etf2l's problem/fault if wildcards are abused if behaving like that is common to NA
wow no one does stuff like that in eu :P tbh doesn't this scheduling stuff happen in esea anyway if not worse? in whatever league I guess there'd always be ways to fuck up shit and I don't think it's etf2l's problem/fault if wildcards are abused if behaving like that is common to NA
etf2l has run smoothly for a long time. maybe its just time for us NA people to adjust to change perhaps?
etf2l has run smoothly for a long time. maybe its just time for us NA people to adjust to change perhaps?
DurrwwpPrototypesSeems like a pretty low dramaguess you've never seen a frenchie get banned
Well you've never seen a German get banned have you?
[quote=Durrwwp][quote=Prototypes]Seems like a pretty low drama[/quote]
guess you've never seen a frenchie get banned[/quote]
Well you've never seen a German get banned have you?
guess you've never seen a frenchie get banned[/quote]
Well you've never seen a German get banned have you?
I think the ETF2L rules are perfectly fine and people are making shit up about why it doesn't work.
Regarding different item banlists: most of the items that are unbanned in ESEA and not ETF2L aren't used anyway so it doesn't make a difference.
All hail our new German overlords
I think the ETF2L rules are perfectly fine and people are making shit up about why it doesn't work.
Regarding different item banlists: most of the items that are unbanned in ESEA and not ETF2L aren't used anyway so it doesn't make a difference.
All hail our new German overlords
Regarding different item banlists: most of the items that are unbanned in ESEA and not ETF2L aren't used anyway so it doesn't make a difference.
All hail our new German overlords
Would we have to start calling our scrims "Practice clan wars"? What about airshots? Do we have to start calling those "middies"?
Would we have to start calling our scrims "Practice clan wars"? What about airshots? Do we have to start calling those "middies"?
HereThereBeTygersWould we have to start calling our scrims "Practice clan wars"? What about airshots? Do we have to start calling those "middies"?
I thought "middies" was an aus/NZ thing.
Also i had no idea what PCW stood for lol
[quote=HereThereBeTygers]Would we have to start calling our scrims "Practice clan wars"? What about airshots? Do we have to start calling those "middies"?[/quote]
I thought "middies" was an aus/NZ thing.
Also i had no idea what PCW stood for lol
I thought "middies" was an aus/NZ thing.
Also i had no idea what PCW stood for lol
renxzenI would change the 5 difference win rounds, i didn't liked to see 8-3 or 7-2 scores when i visited etf2l. It's way cleaner if winlimit is at 5 so scores would be 5-3, 5-1, etc.
Some of our best games would have ended though without this ruleset, eg. the 2nd map of broder vs epsilon in the i49 final
[quote=renxzen]I would change the 5 difference win rounds, i didn't liked to see 8-3 or 7-2 scores when i visited etf2l. It's way cleaner if winlimit is at 5 so scores would be 5-3, 5-1, etc.[/quote]
Some of our best games would have ended though without this ruleset, eg. the 2nd map of broder vs epsilon in the i49 final
Some of our best games would have ended though without this ruleset, eg. the 2nd map of broder vs epsilon in the i49 final
djcperhaps europeans are a nicer, kinder people than americans, then. in the five years i have played this game, i can not think of a single person/team who was honorable and forthright in their scheduling desires. perhaps you were lucky to not encounter people who will refuse to play on any server where they have >50 ping, or people who will refuse to play at 10:30 for some reason but then scrim from 9:30 11:30 with their full starting lineup, or people who ping well to every server but know that your team is all east coast so they demand colorado only, etcetcetc. americans would abuse the fuck outta wildcards.
If you like to use your two wildcards to screw up other teams, other teams are going to screw you up.
Can't find a match time suitable for both teams and you can't make it at the default date? Wildcard it. Oh you used your wildcards to be dicks, well you're fucked now.
You've managed to get 4 of your team to play at the default date? Too bad you were being dicks to other teams, all of your mercs are getting denied and you'd need at least 5 to be allowed to play.
Servers are going to be a bit more difficult in NA, but it'd to be similar to EU. Usually you aren't requesting a server at all, you're just playing on one of the teams server. If both teams can't agree on a server you have to use an etf2l server and all of those are in central europe (NL and DE). Unless one team gets shit ping on NL servers and the other on DE servers that should solve the problem.
You should be able to play with the ping you get to central european servers, you can't really expect everyone to play on your third world server in the middle of nowhere because it's the only one that you can get decent ping to.
Especially in lower divs teams from the same area are placed in the same groups though, so everyone can get better ping than if they'd had to meet in the middle because one team is spanish and the other one's russian. For example if two teams with mostly eastern european (same applies to west eu, scandinavia etc.) there's no reason for them to refuse finding a server with good pings for everyone because if one team insisted on playing on a server that gave the other team bad pings, they just wouldn't agree, the teams would be forced to play on an etf2l server where they all get worse ping.
tl;dr
If you screw up other teams, they are going to screw you up worse. Worst case: No one scrims you anymore, no one will agree on match times anymore and try to get the worst default date for you, deny all mercs etc.
If you can't find a server suitable for both teams, etf2l will lend you one in the middle (probably Dallas and Chicago for NA). Admins can use common sense and won't screw either of the teams.
[quote=djc]perhaps europeans are a nicer, kinder people than americans, then. in the five years i have played this game, i can not think of a single person/team who was honorable and forthright in their scheduling desires. perhaps you were lucky to not encounter people who will refuse to play on any server where they have >50 ping, or people who will refuse to play at 10:30 for some reason but then scrim from 9:30 11:30 with their full starting lineup, or people who ping well to every server but know that your team is all east coast so they demand colorado only, etcetcetc. americans would abuse the fuck outta wildcards.[/quote]
If you like to use your two wildcards to screw up other teams, other teams are going to screw you up.
Can't find a match time suitable for both teams and you can't make it at the default date? Wildcard it. Oh you used your wildcards to be dicks, well you're fucked now.
You've managed to get 4 of your team to play at the default date? Too bad you were being dicks to other teams, all of your mercs are getting denied and you'd need at least 5 to be allowed to play.
Servers are going to be a bit more difficult in NA, but it'd to be similar to EU. Usually you aren't requesting a server at all, you're just playing on one of the teams server. If both teams can't agree on a server you have to use an etf2l server and all of those are in central europe (NL and DE). Unless one team gets shit ping on NL servers and the other on DE servers that should solve the problem.
You should be able to play with the ping you get to central european servers, you can't really expect everyone to play on your third world server in the middle of nowhere because it's the only one that you can get decent ping to.
Especially in lower divs teams from the same area are placed in the same groups though, so everyone can get better ping than if they'd had to meet in the middle because one team is spanish and the other one's russian. For example if two teams with mostly eastern european (same applies to west eu, scandinavia etc.) there's no reason for them to refuse finding a server with good pings for everyone because if one team insisted on playing on a server that gave the other team bad pings, they just wouldn't agree, the teams would be forced to play on an etf2l server where they all get worse ping.
[b]tl;dr[/b]
If you screw up other teams, they are going to screw you up worse. Worst case: No one scrims you anymore, no one will agree on match times anymore and try to get the worst default date for you, deny all mercs etc.
If you can't find a server suitable for both teams, etf2l will lend you one in the middle (probably Dallas and Chicago for NA). Admins can use common sense and won't screw either of the teams.
If you like to use your two wildcards to screw up other teams, other teams are going to screw you up.
Can't find a match time suitable for both teams and you can't make it at the default date? Wildcard it. Oh you used your wildcards to be dicks, well you're fucked now.
You've managed to get 4 of your team to play at the default date? Too bad you were being dicks to other teams, all of your mercs are getting denied and you'd need at least 5 to be allowed to play.
Servers are going to be a bit more difficult in NA, but it'd to be similar to EU. Usually you aren't requesting a server at all, you're just playing on one of the teams server. If both teams can't agree on a server you have to use an etf2l server and all of those are in central europe (NL and DE). Unless one team gets shit ping on NL servers and the other on DE servers that should solve the problem.
You should be able to play with the ping you get to central european servers, you can't really expect everyone to play on your third world server in the middle of nowhere because it's the only one that you can get decent ping to.
Especially in lower divs teams from the same area are placed in the same groups though, so everyone can get better ping than if they'd had to meet in the middle because one team is spanish and the other one's russian. For example if two teams with mostly eastern european (same applies to west eu, scandinavia etc.) there's no reason for them to refuse finding a server with good pings for everyone because if one team insisted on playing on a server that gave the other team bad pings, they just wouldn't agree, the teams would be forced to play on an etf2l server where they all get worse ping.
[b]tl;dr[/b]
If you screw up other teams, they are going to screw you up worse. Worst case: No one scrims you anymore, no one will agree on match times anymore and try to get the worst default date for you, deny all mercs etc.
If you can't find a server suitable for both teams, etf2l will lend you one in the middle (probably Dallas and Chicago for NA). Admins can use common sense and won't screw either of the teams.
whats stopping us from keeping our ruleset and still playing in etf2l?
unless we are being ranked/playing against euros, I don't really see why you couldn't just have an NA config.
other then that the wildcard and double map thing is pretty different.
whats stopping us from keeping our ruleset and still playing in etf2l?
unless we are being ranked/playing against euros, I don't really see why you couldn't just have an NA config.
other then that the wildcard and double map thing is pretty different.
unless we are being ranked/playing against euros, I don't really see why you couldn't just have an NA config.
other then that the wildcard and double map thing is pretty different.
brrtonwhats stopping us from keeping our ruleset and still playing in etf2l?
unless we are being ranked/playing against euros, I don't really see why you couldn't just have an NA config.
other then that the wildcard and double map thing is pretty different.
PermzillashowstopperI think North Americans should be allowed to vote for the ruleset they would want to use.
I would be in favor of the current NA rules, but with the current EU division setup.
The ETF2L website does not support the current NA rule system, which is why there is simply not a choice and the EU rules have to be used.
[quote=brrton]whats stopping us from keeping our ruleset and still playing in etf2l?
unless we are being ranked/playing against euros, I don't really see why you couldn't just have an NA config.
other then that the wildcard and double map thing is pretty different.[/quote]
[quote=Permzilla][quote=showstopper]I think North Americans should be allowed to vote for the ruleset they would want to use.
I would be in favor of the current NA rules, but with the current EU division setup.[/quote]
The ETF2L website does not support the current NA rule system, which is why there is simply not a choice and the EU rules have to be used.[/quote]
unless we are being ranked/playing against euros, I don't really see why you couldn't just have an NA config.
other then that the wildcard and double map thing is pretty different.[/quote]
[quote=Permzilla][quote=showstopper]I think North Americans should be allowed to vote for the ruleset they would want to use.
I would be in favor of the current NA rules, but with the current EU division setup.[/quote]
The ETF2L website does not support the current NA rule system, which is why there is simply not a choice and the EU rules have to be used.[/quote]
It's less a matter of what ruleset/banlist is "better" and more what's actually going to get people to switch. More people will switch more readily if they don't have to give up what they're comfortable with.
You won't be a successful competitor to ESEA long-term (sorry if that's not the intention) unless you can get the best teams to switch, so I'd talk to them personally.
I'd suggest a "training wheels" season or two that allows teams to easily participate in both ESEA and ETF2L. Have the maps match up, try to keep the rules (or at least the banlist) pretty similar to ESEA. Even if people initially see ETF2L as more laid-back practice for their ESEA matches, they'll be able to compare the leagues side-by-side and be more likely to switch when it's not such a leap of faith. (Plus, if you have high participation in the trial season, people will be more likely to hop on the bandwagon.)
Edit: Just saw website limitations - I think there's people here who would be willing to help you guys customize your website if it meant a strong alternative to ESEA.
It's less a matter of what ruleset/banlist is "better" and more what's actually going to get people to switch. More people will switch more readily if they don't have to give up what they're comfortable with.
You won't be a successful competitor to ESEA long-term (sorry if that's not the intention) unless you can get the best teams to switch, so I'd talk to them personally.
I'd suggest a "training wheels" season or two that allows teams to easily participate in both ESEA and ETF2L. Have the maps match up, try to keep the rules (or at least the banlist) pretty similar to ESEA. Even if people initially see ETF2L as more laid-back practice for their ESEA matches, they'll be able to compare the leagues side-by-side and be more likely to switch when it's not such a leap of faith. (Plus, if you have high participation in the trial season, people will be more likely to hop on the bandwagon.)
Edit: Just saw website limitations - I think there's people here who would be willing to help you guys customize your website if it meant a strong alternative to ESEA.
You won't be a successful competitor to ESEA long-term (sorry if that's not the intention) unless you can get the best teams to switch, so I'd talk to them personally.
I'd suggest a "training wheels" season or two that allows teams to easily participate in both ESEA and ETF2L. Have the maps match up, try to keep the rules (or at least the banlist) pretty similar to ESEA. Even if people initially see ETF2L as more laid-back practice for their ESEA matches, they'll be able to compare the leagues side-by-side and be more likely to switch when it's not such a leap of faith. (Plus, if you have high participation in the trial season, people will be more likely to hop on the bandwagon.)
Edit: Just saw website limitations - I think there's people here who would be willing to help you guys customize your website if it meant a strong alternative to ESEA.
I'd favour standardizing the ruleset across alls scenes in the long term (wether that's euros switching to the NA rulset or the other way around doesn't really matter).
The "2 maps a week is a no-no for new players" imo is a weak argument. The european scene played with this mode for the last 43535 years and I've never heard anyone who played 2 maps saying this is too much to handle.
I'd favour standardizing the ruleset across alls scenes in the long term (wether that's euros switching to the NA rulset or the other way around doesn't really matter).
The "2 maps a week is a no-no for new players" imo is a weak argument. The european scene played with this mode for the last 43535 years and I've never heard anyone who played 2 maps saying this is too much to handle.
The "2 maps a week is a no-no for new players" imo is a weak argument. The european scene played with this mode for the last 43535 years and I've never heard anyone who played 2 maps saying this is too much to handle.
lyd
[...]
Edit: Just saw website limitations - I think there's people here who would be willing to help you guys customize your website if it meant a strong alternative to ESEA.
The ETF2L backend unfortunately is a mess and it's neither easy nor a quick issue to fix. :(
[quote=lyd]
[...]
Edit: Just saw website limitations - I think there's people here who would be willing to help you guys customize your website if it meant a strong alternative to ESEA.[/quote]
The ETF2L backend unfortunately is a mess and it's neither easy nor a quick issue to fix. :(
[...]
Edit: Just saw website limitations - I think there's people here who would be willing to help you guys customize your website if it meant a strong alternative to ESEA.[/quote]
The ETF2L backend unfortunately is a mess and it's neither easy nor a quick issue to fix. :(
lydIt's less a matter of what ruleset/banlist is "better" and more what's actually going to get people to switch. More people will switch more readily if they don't have to give up what they're comfortable with.
You won't be a successful competitor to ESEA long-term (sorry if that's not the intention) unless you can get the best teams to switch, so I'd talk to them personally.
I'd suggest a "training wheels" season or two that allows teams to easily participate in both ESEA and ETF2L. Have the maps match up, try to keep the rules (or at least the banlist) pretty similar to ESEA. Even if people initially see ETF2L as more laid-back practice for their ESEA matches, they'll be able to compare the leagues side-by-side and be more likely to switch when it's not such a leap of faith. (Plus, if you have high participation in the trial season, people will be more likely to hop on the bandwagon.)
Edit: Just saw website limitations - I think there's people here who would be willing to help you guys customize your website if it meant a strong alternative to ESEA.
I don't think a "training wheels" season is necessary. I am pretty confident that a migration to ETF2L NA would be widely accepted if an NA division was created.
Also, not many teams would want to play in both ESEA and ETF2L, that's a lot of matches.
[quote=lyd]It's less a matter of what ruleset/banlist is "better" and more what's actually going to get people to switch. More people will switch more readily if they don't have to give up what they're comfortable with.
You won't be a successful competitor to ESEA long-term (sorry if that's not the intention) unless you can get the best teams to switch, so I'd talk to them personally.
I'd suggest a "training wheels" season or two that allows teams to easily participate in both ESEA and ETF2L. Have the maps match up, try to keep the rules (or at least the banlist) pretty similar to ESEA. Even if people initially see ETF2L as more laid-back practice for their ESEA matches, they'll be able to compare the leagues side-by-side and be more likely to switch when it's not such a leap of faith. (Plus, if you have high participation in the trial season, people will be more likely to hop on the bandwagon.)
Edit: Just saw website limitations - I think there's people here who would be willing to help you guys customize your website if it meant a strong alternative to ESEA.[/quote]
I don't think a "training wheels" season is necessary. I am pretty confident that a migration to ETF2L NA would be widely accepted if an NA division was created.
Also, not many teams would want to play in both ESEA and ETF2L, that's a lot of matches.
You won't be a successful competitor to ESEA long-term (sorry if that's not the intention) unless you can get the best teams to switch, so I'd talk to them personally.
I'd suggest a "training wheels" season or two that allows teams to easily participate in both ESEA and ETF2L. Have the maps match up, try to keep the rules (or at least the banlist) pretty similar to ESEA. Even if people initially see ETF2L as more laid-back practice for their ESEA matches, they'll be able to compare the leagues side-by-side and be more likely to switch when it's not such a leap of faith. (Plus, if you have high participation in the trial season, people will be more likely to hop on the bandwagon.)
Edit: Just saw website limitations - I think there's people here who would be willing to help you guys customize your website if it meant a strong alternative to ESEA.[/quote]
I don't think a "training wheels" season is necessary. I am pretty confident that a migration to ETF2L NA would be widely accepted if an NA division was created.
Also, not many teams would want to play in both ESEA and ETF2L, that's a lot of matches.
I would partake in ETF2L NA. It would be a great league to play in.
I would partake in ETF2L NA. It would be a great league to play in.
1 server currently
no admins
no sponsors
no prizes
no lan
and you want us to switch rulesets
sign me up!
1 server currently
no admins
no sponsors
no prizes
no lan
and you want us to switch rulesets
sign me up!
no admins
no sponsors
no prizes
no lan
and you want us to switch rulesets
sign me up!
TLR1 server currently
no admins
no sponsors
no prizes
no lan
and you want us to switch rulesets
sign me up!
tyler why do you sound so bitter
[quote=TLR]1 server currently
no admins
no sponsors
no prizes
no lan
and you want us to switch rulesets
sign me up![/quote]
tyler why do you sound so bitter
no admins
no sponsors
no prizes
no lan
and you want us to switch rulesets
sign me up![/quote]
tyler why do you sound so bitter
TLR1 server currently
no admins
no sponsors
no prizes
no lan
and you want us to switch rulesets
sign me up!
no malware
they do have exceptions in europe though
[quote=TLR]1 server currently
no admins
no sponsors
no prizes
no lan
and you want us to switch rulesets
sign me up![/quote]
no malware
they do have exceptions in europe though
no admins
no sponsors
no prizes
no lan
and you want us to switch rulesets
sign me up![/quote]
no malware
they do have exceptions in europe though
TLR1 server currently
no admins
no sponsors
no prizes
no (OFFICIAL) lan
and you want us to switch rulesets
sign me up!
ftfy
[quote=TLR]1 server currently
[s]no admins[/s]
[s]no sponsors[/s]
[s]no prizes[/s]
no [b](OFFICIAL)[/b] lan
and you want us to switch rulesets
sign me up![/quote]
ftfy
[s]no admins[/s]
[s]no sponsors[/s]
[s]no prizes[/s]
no [b](OFFICIAL)[/b] lan
and you want us to switch rulesets
sign me up![/quote]
ftfy
pwny_tyler why do you sound so bitter
A new league or idea for a new league gets brought up every 2-3 months without fail for almost the past 2 years. It never works. It's tough starting a league, and even though esea has proven to be a terrible company, it would take a serious investment to make a better league. Competitive TF2 is not worth a serious investment, there's no return. I look forward to having this conversation again in 3 months.
[quote=pwny_]
tyler why do you sound so bitter[/quote]
A new league or idea for a new league gets brought up every 2-3 months without fail for almost the past 2 years. It never works. It's tough starting a league, and even though esea has proven to be a terrible company, it would take a serious investment to make a better league. Competitive TF2 is not worth a serious investment, there's no return. I look forward to having this conversation again in 3 months.
tyler why do you sound so bitter[/quote]
A new league or idea for a new league gets brought up every 2-3 months without fail for almost the past 2 years. It never works. It's tough starting a league, and even though esea has proven to be a terrible company, it would take a serious investment to make a better league. Competitive TF2 is not worth a serious investment, there's no return. I look forward to having this conversation again in 3 months.
Serious post this time.
When it comes to the ruleset there isnt much to it. We need to get a unified ruleset, and the easyest way for us to get this is for either the europeans to switch to american rules, or the americans going to european rules. now theres a third option aswell but its not very quick, and its kinda what ETF2L is trying to do at the moment. And that is slowly adapting rules to what most people want (added unlocks this season, probably more next season)
Now what I believe permzilla want is for as many people to enjoy the league as much as possible. If this means having US ruleset one season and change it a bit the season after so it matches the EU rulesets a bit more, then I dont think thats such a far off idea.
We all have strong opinions on the rules (timelimit 30, winlimit 5, windifference 5, you name it) but the fact is that we cant all be winners in this scenario, and I atleast am willing to switch over to winlimit 5 if that means we will get a unified ruleset.
Serious post this time.
When it comes to the ruleset there isnt much to it. We need to get a unified ruleset, and the easyest way for us to get this is for either the europeans to switch to american rules, or the americans going to european rules. now theres a third option aswell but its not very quick, and its kinda what ETF2L is trying to do at the moment. And that is slowly adapting rules to what most people want (added unlocks this season, probably more next season)
Now what I believe permzilla want is for as many people to enjoy the league as much as possible. If this means having US ruleset one season and change it a bit the season after so it matches the EU rulesets a bit more, then I dont think thats such a far off idea.
We all have strong opinions on the rules (timelimit 30, winlimit 5, windifference 5, you name it) but the fact is that we cant all be winners in this scenario, and I atleast am willing to switch over to winlimit 5 if that means we will get a unified ruleset.
When it comes to the ruleset there isnt much to it. We need to get a unified ruleset, and the easyest way for us to get this is for either the europeans to switch to american rules, or the americans going to european rules. now theres a third option aswell but its not very quick, and its kinda what ETF2L is trying to do at the moment. And that is slowly adapting rules to what most people want (added unlocks this season, probably more next season)
Now what I believe permzilla want is for as many people to enjoy the league as much as possible. If this means having US ruleset one season and change it a bit the season after so it matches the EU rulesets a bit more, then I dont think thats such a far off idea.
We all have strong opinions on the rules (timelimit 30, winlimit 5, windifference 5, you name it) but the fact is that we cant all be winners in this scenario, and I atleast am willing to switch over to winlimit 5 if that means we will get a unified ruleset.
TLRpwny_tyler why do you sound so bitter
A new league or idea for a new league gets brought up every 2-3 months without fail for almost the past 2 years. It never works. It's tough starting a league, and even though esea has proven to be a terrible company, it would take a serious investment to make a better league. Competitive TF2 is not worth a serious investment, there's no return. I look forward to having this conversation again in 3 months.
Point taken, but surely the investment's return is subjective. I mean, if Nahanni and others are willing to put in work to make it happen (not saying that anything solid will/won't come about), who's to claim that they shouldn't be doing it because there's no huge profit margins? If they feel like it's a worthwhile endeavour for the community, let 'em have at it. But again, at the end of the day, it's subjective.
[quote=TLR][quote=pwny_]
tyler why do you sound so bitter[/quote]
A new league or idea for a new league gets brought up every 2-3 months without fail for almost the past 2 years. It never works. It's tough starting a league, and even though esea has proven to be a terrible company, it would take a serious investment to make a better league. Competitive TF2 is not worth a serious investment, there's no return. I look forward to having this conversation again in 3 months.[/quote]
Point taken, but surely the investment's return is subjective. I mean, if Nahanni and others are willing to put in work to make it happen (not saying that anything solid will/won't come about), who's to claim that they shouldn't be doing it because there's no huge profit margins? If they feel like it's a worthwhile endeavour for the community, let 'em have at it. But again, at the end of the day, it's subjective.
tyler why do you sound so bitter[/quote]
A new league or idea for a new league gets brought up every 2-3 months without fail for almost the past 2 years. It never works. It's tough starting a league, and even though esea has proven to be a terrible company, it would take a serious investment to make a better league. Competitive TF2 is not worth a serious investment, there's no return. I look forward to having this conversation again in 3 months.[/quote]
Point taken, but surely the investment's return is subjective. I mean, if Nahanni and others are willing to put in work to make it happen (not saying that anything solid will/won't come about), who's to claim that they shouldn't be doing it because there's no huge profit margins? If they feel like it's a worthwhile endeavour for the community, let 'em have at it. But again, at the end of the day, it's subjective.
pwny_who's to claim that they shouldn't be doing it because there's no huge profit margins?
Because there's a loss in time, money and opportunity incurred if the idea doesn't pan out. That's exactly what TLR is saying: there's no return to be had here. Someone putting forth enough time and money to make a serious attempt at rivaling ESEA has everything to lose and very little to gain, even if they succeed.
Such a big investment just for a chance at competing with ESEA is a losing bet, one that almost no one with the resources to make it in the first place is willing to make.
[quote=pwny_]who's to claim that they shouldn't be doing it because there's no huge profit margins?[/quote]
Because there's a loss in time, money and opportunity incurred if the idea doesn't pan out. That's exactly what TLR is saying: there's no return to be had here. Someone putting forth enough time and money to make a serious attempt at rivaling ESEA has everything to lose and very little to gain, even if they succeed.
Such a big investment just for a chance at competing with ESEA is a losing bet, one that almost no one with the resources to make it in the first place is willing to make.
Because there's a loss in time, money and opportunity incurred if the idea doesn't pan out. That's exactly what TLR is saying: there's no return to be had here. Someone putting forth enough time and money to make a serious attempt at rivaling ESEA has everything to lose and very little to gain, even if they succeed.
Such a big investment just for a chance at competing with ESEA is a losing bet, one that almost no one with the resources to make it in the first place is willing to make.
I for one am all for the FREEDOM TF2 League.
[img]http://imgur.com/W16El88.png[/img]
I for one am all for the FREEDOM TF2 League.
I for one am all for the FREEDOM TF2 League.
If you guys can't decide on what ruleset to use (if the NA ruleset of score keeping is even doable on etf2l's current web setup), try doing a experimental short cup for each ruleset. Expose both NA and EU players to both setups and make a final, unbiased and fair decision on which is the superior.
If you guys can't decide on what ruleset to use (if the NA ruleset of score keeping is even doable on etf2l's current web setup), try doing a experimental short cup for each ruleset. Expose both NA and EU players to both setups and make a final, unbiased and fair decision on which is the superior.
omniIf you guys can't decide on what ruleset to use (if the NA ruleset of score keeping is even doable on etf2l's current web setup), try doing a experimental short cup for each ruleset. Expose both NA and EU players to both setups and make a final, unbiased and fair decision on which is the superior.
this was kinda done in the nations cup. there was full on american rulesets then (except for unlocks, duh)
I remember some interviews on the casts about the unlocks rules and the players (me included if i remember correctly) said that it wasnt much of a difference.
[quote=omni]If you guys can't decide on what ruleset to use (if the NA ruleset of score keeping is even doable on etf2l's current web setup), try doing a experimental short cup for each ruleset. Expose both NA and EU players to both setups and make a final, unbiased and fair decision on which is the superior.[/quote]
this was kinda done in the nations cup. there was full on american rulesets then (except for unlocks, duh)
I remember some interviews on the casts about the unlocks rules and the players (me included if i remember correctly) said that it wasnt much of a difference.
this was kinda done in the nations cup. there was full on american rulesets then (except for unlocks, duh)
I remember some interviews on the casts about the unlocks rules and the players (me included if i remember correctly) said that it wasnt much of a difference.
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