I'm in. Get it started Fzero.

Fzero? More like Fhero.

How about you just sue them even if they remove the ban, I know it's unlikely they will, but I want esea to have to pay. And don't be a pussy and settle it out of court either, make this one hurt

This may be a wrong time but...

WHAT ABOUT THE LAN VLOGS???

As for the stats in Europe 90% of us use TFTrue which automatically uploads logs to logs.tf, and you can view them ingame with the !log command, it's kinda a non-issue, the only think is that logs are not automatically linked in match pages, but most of the time players from the teams themselves past them on the match comments.

As for the STV/pov demo thingies, yeah, for the lower division no one really uploads demos and the etf2l site would blow up if everyone did, but premiership (the highest div) has a rule in place that requires every match to have STV demos uploaded

We'd certainly respect teams experience in other leagues when we had to fill the new divisions. After the inaugural season, we'd move to the moveup/movedown model that we use in our other games, which is based on previous season performance.

As a community, you have something that has been the envy of every other competitive TF2 scene around the world for years: a well run league with a solid prizepool, Anti-Cheat, and a LAN finals.

We had almost exactly the same discussion surrounding ESL vs ETF2L several years ago. Although the motivations and build up are different this time, the pros and cons being thrown around are identical.

Please do not make the same mistake.

For god sake stay with ESEA.

It's one thing to say that we should stay with ESEA regardless of unresponsive admins, inconsistency, etc., but backdooring peoples' computers is a no-no.

do you mean we should not go to etf2l? and instead go to cevo?

I'm suggesting you stay with ESEA. Trust me if you think the level of response from ETF2L admins in this thread is even remotely indicative of their day-to-day league running, you've got another thing coming.

ETF2L was a brilliant website and idea that was created in the first few months of TF2's lifespan, which has been passed down along a line of increasingly less competent admins. They've never seen providing any kind of esports element to the game as a goal. Ever since the original German consortium that created it left, it's leadership for any given year has been completely content with providing nothing more than an above average free league with no promotion or hype.

Regardless of the transgressions you feel ESEA has visited on the community in the past, the overall experience you will get with any league will be inferior in every aspect. Dropping support for ESEA is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

So because I don't want to pay for invite LAN anymore and not deal with the constant problems ESEA has had every season with more than fair warning and time to fix them, I'm not playing in ESEA simply because it's the cool and rebellious thing to do?

You vastly underestimate Americans if you think they won't do it and be proud of it.

EDIT:

Jesus fucking christ will you fucking idiots stop misinterpreting every single thing anyone not on your side is saying for one fucking second and LISTEN.

He's saying that no matter how shitty ESEA is, it still IS, and that's valuable in and of itself. Despite being bad ESEA is still the greatest asset NA competitive tf2 has going for it and you shouldn't disregard it.

So no, he's not calling you an edgy rebellious child despite that fact that you're fucking acting like it.

http://i.imgur.com/sY6GQ2W.gif

No it isn't. Just because it's there doesn't mean it's worth all the idiocy and frustration that comes with it. There's such a thing as too much effort for too little payoff.

I dunno who you're calling an edgy child either because none of your posts in this entire fiasco have been thought out or respectful despite having an opposing view.

skyride I think you have been out of the scene too long to be making judgements like this. Based on people's experiences of ESEA this season, what you are describing of ETF2L sounds like a straight upgrade.

Well at least whoever that person was, was considered innocent until proven guilty.

Also would like to say after having worked with CEVO for a short time during the early summer for CEVO HL (which I think is dead atm) CEVO will take TF2 6s & HL seriously if they get enough people to sign up. They will be more than accommodating to what the TF2 community wants/needs. I have literally nothing but Positive things to say about CEVO based on my experience with them.

Idk we are there to make money apparently so dunno if we have time for recording videos

It's not the opposing view. Just because someone doesn't agree with every word coming out of your keyboard does NOT mean they're on the opposite side. There is not a single word in his post that in any way at all insinuates that you're doing it out of some childish rebelliousness. I'm not even agreeing with him. I explained his point because you were too busy shouting him down for something he didn't say instead of considering it.

I like the idea of moving to CEVO. I don't like ESEA. I'm not on the opposite side. I just think that you're all being idiots for rushing into something without considering the consequences, and for screaming at anyone trying to be even a little bit realistic or objective about it.

Regardless of what would be the best move for the NA scene, do you even realise how untrue and thankless this statement is? I think you've been too detached from the EU scene for a while to know what was really going on...

All ESEA has to do is remove lpkane from the company itself.

And that will fix the:

- Shitty response from league admins, at times?
- Shitty servers?
- Shitty Client?
- Shitty "pay to post" forums?
- Shitty league fees and "premium" fees?
- Shitty decision making mid season?

Since when in the fuck do people think staying with ESEA is even an option.

ESEA installed malware onto your computer, malware that does not go away after you uninstall the ESEA client. I'm not talking about the bitcoins, the ESEA client allows ESEA full access to your PC, and the ability to change, remove, or add files and browse your filesystem as the law suit in New Jersey revealed.

How in the LIVING FUCK do you fucking people think staying with ESEA is anything besides a completely load of shit.

Have you people NOT seen this?

That's completely unnacceptable and I'm not backing them up or anything, but you are aware that you implicitly give this permission every single time you download any file of any kind to your computer right?

There seems to be some serious misinformation going around about how AC programs work. While ESEA's monitoring code and some of the functions it has were way over the line and definitely worth the outrage, some of what we're lumping into it is normal AC behavior that we'd be allowing CEVO's Paladin to do as well, assuming it's an AC client worth it's salt.

My main issue with ESEA at this point is that their client did not fully remove itself when uninstalled, and that lpkane is acting like the biggest douche on the planet in his response to all of this. Primarily the latter.

?
If anything you're allowing your browser to create a new file in your computer with the data that you have chosen to download, the company from which you're downloading something does not have access to your filesystem at all, they only just provide content.

lpkane is daddy. You just fell down the stairs... all good.

Yeah, I'm not even remotely bothered by the statements in NJ's court document - if what they were saying was true, people would be going to jail, not getting hit with a relatively tiny fine.

The main thing I'm bothered about is how poorly questions were being handled in that thread - ESEA needs much better PR.

Lol can i come visit your planet? I want to see flying pigs and unicorns.

So you're saying, that the state of New Jersey would allow individuals to commit several felonies, for which they supposedly have evidence, and then just allow them to walk away without admitting guilt and only paying a relatively small fine spread out over 10 years and they're -=not=- a major enterprise or bank?

I'm no ESEA super-fan, but it's pretty ridiculous to assert that New Jersey would behave in such a way. Furthermore, if any such activity exists when they're audited the company will die, so you can bet that everything will be squeaky clean lol.

The CS community also doesn't appear to even be mildly concerned from what I can see, sure ESEA does a bit more for them than us, but you can't charge that entire community with collective insanity no matter how silly they may appear to be in GO lobbies.

However, I think all of this will actually be healthy for the community once people calm down and think things over. Because what we'll likely see is mostly everybody playing in ESEA still (that's just generally the feeling I'm getting) with a few less teams here and there. While large swaths of the community will start doing CEVO/UGC/Potential ETF2l - which means more tf2 will be being played across more leagues, and that's an excellent thing for us all.