Why are you asking us bro? you guys are probably a top 2 team in 4v4

“He smiled understandingly-much more than understandingly. It was one of those rare smiles with a quality of eternal reassurance in it, that you may come across four or five times in life. It faced--or seemed to face--the whole eternal world for an instant, and then concentrated on you with an irresistible prejudice in your favor. It understood you just as far as you wanted to be understood, believed in you as you would like to believe in yourself, and assured you that it had precisely the impression of you that, at your best, you hoped to convey.”
― F. Scott Fitzgerald, The Great Gatsby

If you have a good sniper you win 4v4.

From the small amount of experience I have in 4s, I'd say pushing is pretty simple and suicidal on koth maps. If they own the point, longer respawn time, so you can effectively bully them in a timezone if you get any picks off of a failed push. If they're running a slower class like pyro and you pick it, you can exploit this even more.

I'd say when pushing your key goal should be picks and general focus on fragging classes. The less of them shooting at you, the better.

You're right when you say that there is no real definition between the combo and the flank as in 6s or in highlander. Since you'd only have one fragging class on the flank or combo at any given time, I think it's a bit better to have your scout or your fastest class that you would normally put on the flank play very dynamically with the combo in pushes and in general. If you can somehow get behind them or in some flank role and you can live long enough to time your push with the rest of your team, then sure, go for it. It can provide some serious advantages, but it's a risk as if you die your team is a lot weaker.

It's also the possibility that they just outdm'd you on every push. It could be my inexperience speaking, but I think dm is currently probably the deciding factor in 4s. If you can frag harder than your enemies and take down their fragging classes effectively and quickly, they just can't win.

4s is an unexplored mode. If you're looking to improve on it, you'll probably have to do some theorizing about it on your own. I'd say adapt from 6s a lot, but remove the thought of a definite flank, and you can probably do pretty well. I'm not very good at 6s, so I can't talk specifics on what to do. But look at posts on how to push in 6s, try to look at ones that involve using your scouts on a push (I think someone posted something in a thread around here earlier detailing how to push in 6s, and at least one of the push types involved using a single scout in the push).

Also, if all else fails, run pyro and slow push, reflecting rockets and just being the absolutely biggest jerk you can possibly be. Stupidly good in 4s if your pyro can deal with a scout (which isn't too tough, just make sure he has an overheal). (Oh, small note, he does die to snipers which deep just said)

i got confused because your post said gatsby :<

http://i.imgur.com/7xzy7aL.png

And as I sat there, brooding on the old, unknown world, I thought of Gatsby's wonder when he first picked out Daisy's light at the end of his dock. He had come such a long way to this blue lawn, and his dream must have seemed so close he could hardly fail to grasp it. But what he did not know was that it was already behind him, somewhere in the vast obscurity beyond the city, where the dark fields of the republic rolled on under the night.

He averted his eyes, and reached from the door handle. Pulling it open, he had the reply of a not-so-polite "go away" on his lips, but then was replaced with shock. He body froze up and his eyes widened almost as big as a saucer plate. His heart beat frantically in his chest and his brain reminded him to breath. His lips trembled and his hands shook. No. No. This couldn't be right. It wasn't possible. He was just dreaming, that was it. He had stayed up too late and had fallen into this horrific dream. None of this was real.

But then the man reached out a hand, and placed on the young boy's shoulder, squeezing gently. Nick's eyes locked with the man's, and his irises asked a silent question.

Is this real? Are you real?

And the man's eyes seemed to flicker with happiness and hope and calmness, he uttered a single phrase before locking lips with his friend in a passionate embrace.

"Hello, Old Sport."

i dont think american hustle was a very good movie but it wasnt bad either ok

This thread is about to become a solid dumping ground.

http://i.imgur.com/YiwxQKy.gif

i want your gif collection defy

i really dont understand why people are trying to make 4v4 a thing - having players spread between 6v6 and highlander is bad enough, and people want to split up tf2's small competitive playerbase even more????

stop having fun u r splitting the community

4v4 is for people who want quick games with fewer people, but find 6s too formulaic. And it's not like you can only play one.

4s is like the format where you just dm and have fun shooting stuff at a faster pace, in 6s you gotta actually have strats and team coordination which is why i'm playing 4v4 this season to just shoot things. i don't think it will split the community it's just another format people will play but not take seriously at all. nothing wrong with having different options

if you want to shoot things cant you just pub? there's 12 people to shoot rather than 4.

ain't soap dm just for that?

When you push into mid and take the point you should have a class that's good at zoning against multiple players (demo, heavy, engie) afterwards so that they don't get fast spawns and bully their way back into you before you respawn.

Aside from that my whole idea about it is just to use your lower respawn time to bully your way in. 1:1 trades are in the losing team's favor unless you cap the point before your player respawns, especially if you take out a zoning class for losing a support one.

Can't they both exist? It's refreshing to theory-craft in an unexplored format.

And how is the existence of highlander a bad thing? It introduces newcomers to the idea of competitive tf2, a kind of gateway between 6s and pubs (with all due respect). I don't see it as one or the other.

oh no I'd better not say anything remotely negative about 6s at teamfortress.tv

no
There's a very specific way 6s is played, and that's fine, but not everyone wants to do that. 4v4 is fast and pretty dynamic in comparison to either 6s or highlander, and it's different from soap dm because there are actual teams and objectives.