Do Not Offclass…
● To mid on a Non-Koth Map
● If you're not being effective off-classing.
"if you are not being effective offclassing"
I thought pug was about improving? Or what...
tf2mix
posted in
TF2 General Discussion
Do Not Offclass…
● To mid on a Non-Koth Map
● If you're not being effective off-classing.
"if you are not being effective offclassing"
I thought pug was about improving? Or what...
● To mid on a Non-Koth Map
● If you're not being effective off-classing.
"if you are not being effective offclassing"
I thought pug was about improving? Or what...
DamnEasyI thought pug was about improving? Or what...
Sometimes pugs are about improving. Or sometimes pugs are about socializing with other members of the community and/or just having fun. Believe it or not, sometimes playing with a team can be stressful, and some people want to play pugs outside of their team to blow off steam.
So if someone wants to offclass a bit here or there I don't see the harm in it. Full time offclass is annoying yes but I feel like the pug community is small enough to where you can simply have a conversation with the offender. If it's a problem, deal with it. But it shouldn't be banned outright.
[quote=DamnEasy]I thought pug was about improving? Or what...[/quote]
Sometimes pugs are about improving. Or sometimes pugs are about socializing with other members of the community and/or just having fun. Believe it or not, sometimes playing with a team can be stressful, and some people want to play pugs outside of their team to blow off steam.
So if someone wants to offclass a bit here or there I don't see the harm in it. Full time offclass is annoying yes but I feel like the pug community is small enough to where you can simply have a conversation with the offender. If it's a problem, deal with it. But it shouldn't be banned outright.
Sometimes pugs are about improving. Or sometimes pugs are about socializing with other members of the community and/or just having fun. Believe it or not, sometimes playing with a team can be stressful, and some people want to play pugs outside of their team to blow off steam.
So if someone wants to offclass a bit here or there I don't see the harm in it. Full time offclass is annoying yes but I feel like the pug community is small enough to where you can simply have a conversation with the offender. If it's a problem, deal with it. But it shouldn't be banned outright.
if #tf2mix is meant for low-level then imo it's a good thing. In aus a lot of our non-mumble pugs are ruined because someone goes sniper, then someone from the other team goes sniper, everyone starts off-classing/playing like idiots then everyone leaves at the end of the pug because it leaves a bad taste in eveyone's mouth.
We had spitty pugs for a while (which was a dude named spitty hosting pugs on his own server for prem/div2 level, all offclasses banned), and they were fucking boss because everyone kept playing seriously, no matter what.
if #tf2mix is meant for low-level then imo it's a good thing. In aus a lot of our non-mumble pugs are ruined because someone goes sniper, then someone from the other team goes sniper, everyone starts off-classing/playing like idiots then everyone leaves at the end of the pug because it leaves a bad taste in eveyone's mouth.
We had spitty pugs for a while (which was a dude named spitty hosting pugs on his own server for prem/div2 level, all offclasses banned), and they were fucking boss because everyone kept playing seriously, no matter what.
We had spitty pugs for a while (which was a dude named spitty hosting pugs on his own server for prem/div2 level, all offclasses banned), and they were fucking boss because everyone kept playing seriously, no matter what.
The worst is when admins/mods restrict or ban someone for excessive offclassing, but when their buddy or a good player does it, they have the right to. You may as well ban all of the utilities considering a majority of the admins/mods there don't know how to control their power sometimes.
It's been nearly a year since I've played in tf2mix, so maybe something has changed for the best, but I kind of doubt it.
The worst is when admins/mods restrict or ban someone for excessive offclassing, but when their buddy or a good player does it, they have the right to. You may as well ban all of the utilities considering a majority of the admins/mods there don't know how to control their power sometimes.
It's been nearly a year since I've played in tf2mix, so maybe something has changed for the best, but I kind of doubt it.
It's been nearly a year since I've played in tf2mix, so maybe something has changed for the best, but I kind of doubt it.
-Mike-Oh man, can we totally ban the pyro,heavy, engy, spy?
We can dream.
[quote=-Mike-]Oh man, can we totally ban the pyro, [s]heavy[/s], engy, spy?[/quote]
We can dream.
We can dream.
koolb is a nice person if u dont get on her nerves, aka offclassing :/
koolb is a nice person if u dont get on her nerves, aka offclassing :/
eulogy banned me for going sniper to mid as pocket when we had 5 players and one minute left
the point being you should ban pyro because fuck pyro
eulogy banned me for going sniper to mid as pocket when we had 5 players and one minute left
the point being you should ban pyro because fuck pyro
the point being you should ban pyro because fuck pyro
AloSecThe real questions are:
When is rescue ranger going to be banned?
Why is weapon still not restricted?
Speaking of weapon bans...
Will the mix whitelist ever mirror the ESEA whitelist or something similar? I wanna use my Shahanshah and bison :(
[quote=AloSec]The real questions are:
When is rescue ranger going to be banned?
Why is weapon still not restricted?[/quote]
Speaking of weapon bans...
Will the mix whitelist ever mirror the ESEA whitelist or something similar? I wanna use my Shahanshah and bison :(
When is rescue ranger going to be banned?
Why is weapon still not restricted?[/quote]
Speaking of weapon bans...
Will the mix whitelist ever mirror the ESEA whitelist or something similar? I wanna use my Shahanshah and bison :(
conch banned, bison
rescue ranger, sandvich, frontier justice allowed
btw if you're going to ban somethihg that ruins pugs ban the direct hit, that thing is actually useless
conch banned, bison
rescue ranger, sandvich, frontier justice allowed
btw if you're going to ban somethihg that ruins pugs ban the direct hit, that thing is actually useless
rescue ranger, sandvich, frontier justice allowed
btw if you're going to ban somethihg that ruins pugs ban the direct hit, that thing is actually useless
hey guys stop playing tf2mix and come back to pugna
hey guys stop playing tf2mix and come back to pugna
no fun allowed
edit: no but seriously, there is a difference between excessive off classing and sniping when your supposed to. Generally sniper is a fun class and all but in a place like tf2mix where newer players are trying to learn the meta its sort of understandable why they are doing this. Lots of people abused it (myself included admittedly). If you wanna snipe, snipe in other places. What I didn't like about tf2mix though is that even if you sniped at certain windows of opportunity where its applicable, if it wasn't on the last point, people instantly say "oh he's sniping 24/7" simply because that person is hitting shots and no one has killed him yet. In my opinion they should enforce an offclassing on last rule so that everyone's happy, because banning sniper completely kind of takes away a certain aspect of the game that can win rounds for your team when used correctly. Then again, if tf2mix is trying to teach newer players how to play the game correctly, they should also teach people how to offclass correctly, instead of banning an entire element of the game.
,
no fun allowed
edit: no but seriously, there is a difference between excessive off classing and sniping when your supposed to. Generally sniper is a fun class and all but in a place like tf2mix where newer players are trying to learn the meta its sort of understandable why they are doing this. Lots of people abused it (myself included admittedly). If you wanna snipe, snipe in other places. What I didn't like about tf2mix though is that even if you sniped at certain windows of opportunity where its applicable, if it wasn't on the last point, people instantly say "oh he's sniping 24/7" simply because that person is hitting shots and no one has killed him yet. In my opinion they should enforce an offclassing on last rule so that everyone's happy, because banning sniper completely kind of takes away a certain aspect of the game that can win rounds for your team when used correctly. Then again, if tf2mix is trying to teach newer players how to play the game correctly, they should also teach people how to offclass correctly, instead of banning an entire element of the game.
,
edit: no but seriously, there is a difference between excessive off classing and sniping when your supposed to. Generally sniper is a fun class and all but in a place like tf2mix where newer players are trying to learn the meta its sort of understandable why they are doing this. Lots of people abused it (myself included admittedly). If you wanna snipe, snipe in other places. What I didn't like about tf2mix though is that even if you sniped at certain windows of opportunity where its applicable, if it wasn't on the last point, people instantly say "oh he's sniping 24/7" simply because that person is hitting shots and no one has killed him yet. In my opinion they should enforce an offclassing on last rule so that everyone's happy, because banning sniper completely kind of takes away a certain aspect of the game that can win rounds for your team when used correctly. Then again, if tf2mix is trying to teach newer players how to play the game correctly, they should also teach people how to offclass correctly, instead of banning an entire element of the game.
,
Can the admins add the people they ban and give us an explanation please? I looked at my IRC and all I saw was that I was banned, and the explanation was "Bye." Please don't be lazy. You're playing with my emotions b!!!
Can the admins add the people they ban and give us an explanation please? I looked at my IRC and all I saw was that I was banned, and the explanation was "Bye." Please don't be lazy. You're playing with my emotions b!!!
if tf2mix is trying to teach newer players how to play the game correctly
and we will teach them how to play the correct way with 2 soldiers, 2 scouts, 1 demo, and 1 medic.
THE WAY GOD INTENDED
also if you are in favor of banning offclassing please msg me "fuck offclassing" or "its not badlands" to me on irc. PapaSmurf or PapaSmurf`Work
[quote]if tf2mix is trying to teach newer players how to play the game correctly[/quote]
and we will teach them how to play the correct way with 2 soldiers, 2 scouts, 1 demo, and 1 medic.
THE WAY GOD INTENDED
also if you are in favor of banning offclassing please msg me "fuck offclassing" or "its not badlands" to me on irc. PapaSmurf or PapaSmurf`Work
and we will teach them how to play the correct way with 2 soldiers, 2 scouts, 1 demo, and 1 medic.
THE WAY GOD INTENDED
also if you are in favor of banning offclassing please msg me "fuck offclassing" or "its not badlands" to me on irc. PapaSmurf or PapaSmurf`Work
4812622conch banned, bison
rescue ranger, sandvich, frontier justice allowed
btw if you're going to ban somethihg that ruins pugs ban the direct hit, that thing is actually useless
I agree our white list should mirror ESEA's; it is a bit wonky. will discuss it. (have you seen technasty with the direct hit???)
chunkeyyyCan the admins add the people they ban and give us an explanation please? I looked at my IRC and all I saw was that I was banned, and the explanation was "Bye." Please don't be lazy. You're playing with my emotions b!!!
agreed and added you to discuss further
[quote=4812622]conch banned, bison
rescue ranger, sandvich, frontier justice allowed
btw if you're going to ban somethihg that ruins pugs ban the direct hit, that thing is actually useless[/quote]
I agree our white list should mirror ESEA's; it is a bit wonky. will discuss it. (have you seen technasty with the direct hit???)
[quote=chunkeyyy]Can the admins add the people they ban and give us an explanation please? I looked at my IRC and all I saw was that I was banned, and the explanation was "Bye." Please don't be lazy. You're playing with my emotions b!!![/quote]
agreed and added you to discuss further
rescue ranger, sandvich, frontier justice allowed
btw if you're going to ban somethihg that ruins pugs ban the direct hit, that thing is actually useless[/quote]
I agree our white list should mirror ESEA's; it is a bit wonky. will discuss it. (have you seen technasty with the direct hit???)
[quote=chunkeyyy]Can the admins add the people they ban and give us an explanation please? I looked at my IRC and all I saw was that I was banned, and the explanation was "Bye." Please don't be lazy. You're playing with my emotions b!!![/quote]
agreed and added you to discuss further
PapaSmurf323if tf2mix is trying to teach newer players how to play the game correctly
and we will teach them how to play the correct way with 2 soldiers, 2 scouts, 1 demo, and 1 medic.
if that's the case off classing wouldn't exist in the first place.
[quote=PapaSmurf323][quote]if tf2mix is trying to teach newer players how to play the game correctly[/quote]
and we will teach them how to play the correct way with 2 soldiers, 2 scouts, 1 demo, and 1 medic.
[/quote]
if that's the case off classing wouldn't exist in the first place.
and we will teach them how to play the correct way with 2 soldiers, 2 scouts, 1 demo, and 1 medic.
[/quote]
if that's the case off classing wouldn't exist in the first place.
As long as top level teams offclass effectively you can't logically ban shit under the argument that the game isn't supposed to be played with offclasses.
As long as top level teams offclass effectively you can't logically ban shit under the argument that the game isn't supposed to be played with offclasses.
jake_deskoolb is a nice person if u dont get on her nerves, aka offclassing :/
[quote=jake_des]koolb is a nice person if u dont get on her nerves, aka offclassing :/[/quote]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/1Zx2N4i.gif[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/1Zx2N4i.gif[/img]
konrAs long as top level teams offclass effectively you can't logically ban shit under the argument that the game isn't supposed to be played with offclasses.
That is Illogical.
What's supposed to happen, is you're taught the core format in Newbie Mixes, and then you practice it regularly in #tf2mix since Newbie Pugs are still only a limited deal. Then once you're comfortable/reliable in that you either join a UGC team or step up to pug.na, then you can be introduced to tactful off-classing.
The last part is key, anybody can offclass in a game, but to make it effective (and fun) you have to do it at the right time for the right reason. Offclassing to sniper just because you're good at it isn't valid, but doing it to get a med pick and stop a push is valid. Same thing with using Heavy, Pyro or Engineer defending last.
tl;dr - Don't offclass just because you can, and nobody will get mad.
[quote=konr]As long as top level teams offclass effectively you can't logically ban shit under the argument that the game isn't supposed to be played with offclasses.[/quote]
That is Illogical.
What's supposed to happen, is you're taught the core format in Newbie Mixes, and then you practice it regularly in #tf2mix since Newbie Pugs are still only a limited deal. Then once you're comfortable/reliable in that you either join a UGC team or step up to pug.na, then you can be introduced to tactful off-classing.
The last part is key, anybody can offclass in a game, but to make it effective (and fun) you have to do it at the right time for the right reason. Offclassing to sniper just because you're good at it isn't valid, but doing it to get a med pick and stop a push is valid. Same thing with using Heavy, Pyro or Engineer defending last.
[i]
tl;dr - Don't offclass just because you can, and nobody will get mad.[/i]
That is Illogical.
What's supposed to happen, is you're taught the core format in Newbie Mixes, and then you practice it regularly in #tf2mix since Newbie Pugs are still only a limited deal. Then once you're comfortable/reliable in that you either join a UGC team or step up to pug.na, then you can be introduced to tactful off-classing.
The last part is key, anybody can offclass in a game, but to make it effective (and fun) you have to do it at the right time for the right reason. Offclassing to sniper just because you're good at it isn't valid, but doing it to get a med pick and stop a push is valid. Same thing with using Heavy, Pyro or Engineer defending last.
[i]
tl;dr - Don't offclass just because you can, and nobody will get mad.[/i]
LKincheloeWhat's supposed to happen, is you're taught the core format in Newbie Mixes, and then you practice it regularly in #tf2mix since Newbie Pugs are still only a limited deal. Then once you're comfortable/reliable in that you either join a UGC team or step up to pug.na
Except this is not even close to how real player progression tends to play out.
[quote=LKincheloe]What's supposed to happen, is you're taught the core format in Newbie Mixes, and then you practice it regularly in #tf2mix since Newbie Pugs are still only a limited deal. Then once you're comfortable/reliable in that you either join a UGC team or step up to pug.na[/quote]
Except this is not even close to how real player progression tends to play out.
Except this is not even close to how real player progression tends to play out.
This argument is silly since there is obviously no right or wrong in this situation. Sure there can be points made by both sides but as long as there are people with different pug mentalities, the question on when is the right time to offclass will never be answered.
This argument is silly since there is obviously no right or wrong in this situation. Sure there can be points made by both sides but as long as there are people with different pug mentalities, the question on when is the right time to offclass will never be answered.
reillyLKincheloeWhat's supposed to happen, is you're taught the core format in Newbie Mixes, and then you practice it regularly in #tf2mix since Newbie Pugs are still only a limited deal. Then once you're comfortable/reliable in that you either join a UGC team or step up to pug.na
Except this is not even close to how real player progression tends to play out.
Point of reference slightly to the contrary. When I migrated over to PC, around summer before last, i started with TF2lobby, then TF2mix, then pug.na and got recruited to my first open team from there. I did play some UGC with friends before that last part though.
[quote=reilly][quote=LKincheloe]What's supposed to happen, is you're taught the core format in Newbie Mixes, and then you practice it regularly in #tf2mix since Newbie Pugs are still only a limited deal. Then once you're comfortable/reliable in that you either join a UGC team or step up to pug.na[/quote]
Except this is not even close to how real player progression tends to play out.[/quote]
Point of reference slightly to the contrary. When I migrated over to PC, around summer before last, i started with TF2lobby, then TF2mix, then pug.na and got recruited to my first open team from there. I did play some UGC with friends before that last part though.
Except this is not even close to how real player progression tends to play out.[/quote]
Point of reference slightly to the contrary. When I migrated over to PC, around summer before last, i started with TF2lobby, then TF2mix, then pug.na and got recruited to my first open team from there. I did play some UGC with friends before that last part though.
literally no argument can logically support banning sniper/other offclasses
the only thing this is going to accomplish is making me better with the ambassador, because i'm still gonna snipe yo
literally no argument can logically support banning sniper/other offclasses
the only thing this is going to accomplish is making me better with the ambassador, because i'm still gonna snipe yo
the only thing this is going to accomplish is making me better with the ambassador, because i'm still gonna snipe yo
beaslyliterally no argument can logically support banning sniper/other offclasses
literally no argument can logically support perma-off classing.
as for an argument for banning sniper/other utilities: people (un)intentionally ruining pugs for the other team by running sniper 24/7 is more than enough to call for consequences.
[quote=beasly]literally no argument can logically support banning sniper/other offclasses[/quote]
literally no argument can logically support perma-off classing.
as for an argument for banning sniper/other utilities: people (un)intentionally ruining pugs for the other team by running sniper 24/7 is more than enough to call for consequences.
literally no argument can logically support perma-off classing.
as for an argument for banning sniper/other utilities: people (un)intentionally ruining pugs for the other team by running sniper 24/7 is more than enough to call for consequences.
PapaSmurf323if tf2mix is trying to teach newer players how to play the game correctly
and we will teach them how to play the correct way with 2 soldiers, 2 scouts, 1 demo, and 1 medic.
THE WAY GOD INTENDED
also if you are in favor of banning offclassing please msg me "fuck offclassing" or "its not badlands" to me on irc. PapaSmurf or PapaSmurf`Work
papasmurf, do you play in #tf2mix, let alone TF2 at all anymore? what place do you have as an admin for a pug channel for a game you don't even play?
XanreillyLKincheloeWhat's supposed to happen, is you're taught the core format in Newbie Mixes, and then you practice it regularly in #tf2mix since Newbie Pugs are still only a limited deal. Then once you're comfortable/reliable in that you either join a UGC team or step up to pug.na
Except this is not even close to how real player progression tends to play out.
Point of reference slightly to the contrary. When I migrated over to PC, around summer before last, i started with TF2lobby, then TF2mix, then pug.na and got recruited to my first open team from there. I did play some UGC with friends before that last part though.
entirely anecdotal evidence, everyone will have a different experience.
---
everyone in this thread advocating for banning offclassing seems to be under the mentality that it will help new players learn the game "cookie-cutter" or "vanilla". this is simply not the case; offclassing is a legit part of the game and should be learned along with everything else. if you remove sniper, you're hurting their ability to learn more than keeping it in.
[quote=PapaSmurf323][quote]if tf2mix is trying to teach newer players how to play the game correctly[/quote]
and we will teach them how to play the correct way with 2 soldiers, 2 scouts, 1 demo, and 1 medic.
THE WAY GOD INTENDED
also if you are in favor of banning offclassing please msg me "fuck offclassing" or "its not badlands" to me on irc. PapaSmurf or PapaSmurf`Work[/quote]
papasmurf, do you play in #tf2mix, let alone TF2 at all anymore? what place do you have as an admin for a pug channel for a game you don't even play?
[quote=Xan][quote=reilly][quote=LKincheloe]What's supposed to happen, is you're taught the core format in Newbie Mixes, and then you practice it regularly in #tf2mix since Newbie Pugs are still only a limited deal. Then once you're comfortable/reliable in that you either join a UGC team or step up to pug.na[/quote]
Except this is not even close to how real player progression tends to play out.[/quote]
Point of reference slightly to the contrary. When I migrated over to PC, around summer before last, i started with TF2lobby, then TF2mix, then pug.na and got recruited to my first open team from there. I did play some UGC with friends before that last part though.[/quote]
entirely anecdotal evidence, everyone will have a different experience.
---
everyone in this thread advocating for banning offclassing seems to be under the mentality that it will help new players learn the game "cookie-cutter" or "vanilla". this is simply not the case; offclassing is a legit part of the game and should be learned along with everything else. if you remove sniper, you're hurting their ability to learn more than keeping it in.
and we will teach them how to play the correct way with 2 soldiers, 2 scouts, 1 demo, and 1 medic.
THE WAY GOD INTENDED
also if you are in favor of banning offclassing please msg me "fuck offclassing" or "its not badlands" to me on irc. PapaSmurf or PapaSmurf`Work[/quote]
papasmurf, do you play in #tf2mix, let alone TF2 at all anymore? what place do you have as an admin for a pug channel for a game you don't even play?
[quote=Xan][quote=reilly][quote=LKincheloe]What's supposed to happen, is you're taught the core format in Newbie Mixes, and then you practice it regularly in #tf2mix since Newbie Pugs are still only a limited deal. Then once you're comfortable/reliable in that you either join a UGC team or step up to pug.na[/quote]
Except this is not even close to how real player progression tends to play out.[/quote]
Point of reference slightly to the contrary. When I migrated over to PC, around summer before last, i started with TF2lobby, then TF2mix, then pug.na and got recruited to my first open team from there. I did play some UGC with friends before that last part though.[/quote]
entirely anecdotal evidence, everyone will have a different experience.
---
everyone in this thread advocating for banning offclassing seems to be under the mentality that it will help new players learn the game "cookie-cutter" or "vanilla". this is simply not the case; offclassing is a legit part of the game and should be learned along with everything else. if you remove sniper, you're hurting their ability to learn more than keeping it in.
papasmurf is only there to decline my requests for trivia
papasmurf is only there to decline my requests for trivia
AloSec this is simply not the case; offclassing is a legit part of the game and should be learned along with everything else. if you remove sniper, you're hurting their ability to learn more than keeping it in.
Explain how playing against an IM scout/sniper main is going to help a steel roamer learn to play the game.
[quote=AloSec] this is simply not the case; offclassing is a legit part of the game and should be learned along with everything else. if you remove sniper, you're hurting their ability to learn more than keeping it in.[/quote]
Explain how playing against an IM scout/sniper main is going to help a steel roamer learn to play the game.
Explain how playing against an IM scout/sniper main is going to help a steel roamer learn to play the game.
beaslyliterally no argument can logically support banning sniper/other offclasses
the only thing this is going to accomplish is making me better with the ambassador, because i'm still gonna snipe yo
kirbybeaslyliterally no argument can logically support banning sniper/other offclasses
literally no argument can logically support perma-off classing.
as for an argument for banning sniper/other utilities: people (un)intentionally ruining pugs for the other team by running sniper 24/7 is more than enough to call for consequences.
you two are talking about apples and oranges. beasly is talking about situational offclassing and kirby you are talking about straight out trolling. neither is helped by entirely removing sniper, however. the only thing to stop trolling is action from an admin being restriction/ban
[quote=beasly]literally no argument can logically support banning sniper/other offclasses
the only thing this is going to accomplish is making me better with the ambassador, because i'm still gonna snipe yo[/quote]
[quote=kirby][quote=beasly]literally no argument can logically support banning sniper/other offclasses[/quote]
literally no argument can logically support perma-off classing.
as for an argument for banning sniper/other utilities: people (un)intentionally ruining pugs for the other team by running sniper 24/7 is more than enough to call for consequences.[/quote]
you two are talking about apples and oranges. beasly is talking about situational offclassing and kirby you are talking about straight out trolling. neither is helped by entirely removing sniper, however. the only thing to stop trolling is action from an admin being restriction/ban
the only thing this is going to accomplish is making me better with the ambassador, because i'm still gonna snipe yo[/quote]
[quote=kirby][quote=beasly]literally no argument can logically support banning sniper/other offclasses[/quote]
literally no argument can logically support perma-off classing.
as for an argument for banning sniper/other utilities: people (un)intentionally ruining pugs for the other team by running sniper 24/7 is more than enough to call for consequences.[/quote]
you two are talking about apples and oranges. beasly is talking about situational offclassing and kirby you are talking about straight out trolling. neither is helped by entirely removing sniper, however. the only thing to stop trolling is action from an admin being restriction/ban
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