Not keen on the new ramps.

Pictures of how I would push across the mid (probably):

b5

http://i.imgur.com/tNYcF2Y.jpg

b7

http://i.imgur.com/dSUrW7Z.jpg

I dunno if you wanted people to be directed towards the red circle (didn't know place name) as opposed to choke but the way the ramps are facing seem to imply that is the direction you should go. It makes going to choke feel kinda wonky :c

http://i.imgur.com/XElCX8T.jpg

Maybe make these areas continuous grass and just have them be slopes?

http://i.imgur.com/4sVr9jN.jpg

This feels really steep, and it doesn't feel right to go anywhere else other than to the top of the ramp (I'm well aware you can go around the front of the house but on the approach it just looks like a ramp to the left and a flat wall). Also since this is so steep and close to the house it's harder to spam onto/over the roof as demo (not sure if intentional, maybe I just don't like it cause I'm a demo main).

Anyways, the b7 mid is way way way different to any of the other beta mids, maybe it plays great but I just feel like it isn't smooth.

This door is too small. If you shoot a rocket at the center you will get a free juggle. It should be big enough that you can at least hang to one side to take half damage or so.

http://i.imgur.com/P8LedqA.jpg

Add a lower-ground area similar to gullywash here or a prop or something so that scouts can win a 1v1 against a solder without having to 2-shot them.

http://i.imgur.com/dCIm2Wq.jpg

Compare this fence to the one on badlands spire. It doesn't protect you from spam from the choke (whereas on badlands you have to push towards pride rock to be able to spam the spire.

http://i.imgur.com/dBYzNlO.jpg

cp_logjam_b8

Download: https://www.dropbox.com/s/l40e52onewrq6u0/cp_logjam_b8f.bsp

This is probably the last version for a while- I believe I've exhausted what is to be learned from PUGS/mixes for the most part and I need to hear from teams playing it to further tweak the map. Barring any gay spots/strange things or obvious "hey fix this asshole" this will be the last new version until after it's played in the Nations Cup for ETF2L.

CEVO admins, this also means I'd like it if you could make this version the map for week 9 rather than beta 1. Playing beta 1 would not help me at all.

Changes:
Reverted mid to b5 version
Moved forward spawns to the upper corner of mid accross from choke, should be more intuitive
Made the ramps on mid make more sense, changed some of them to displacements
Rotated fences on spire to better cover from choke
Made the small door to banana larger
Added some props in secret/sneaky, clipped it better as well
Detailed upper lobby a bit
Added windows from last looking into upper lobby and lobby
clipping on rockwalls

Screens:

http://i.imgur.com/zvdNxJ2.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/bTD36X1.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/h6CaFER.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/BDsmPqn.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/m1Es3VY.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/OG08K6S.jpg

Eh, not sure how much help moving the spawn down would make it, you could skip off the ground or jumper higher anyways. I can look into it.

Anyways. Here's a sneak peak for B9, hopefully this will make E-thug feel warm and fuzzy on the inside

http://i.imgur.com/hNwYM6M.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/49Rei01.jpg

You need sum support-trim on your buildings like derecho has

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84556731/72hr/2013-07-22_00001.jpg

Yeah I know I haven't gotten there yet haha. I was referring to covering up the cliff and house junction.

im warm and fuzzy baby

cp_logjam_b9

DOWNLOAD: https://www.dropbox.com/s/up4uwpiaart64ld/cp_logjam_b9.bsp

changes:
Lowered the displacements in the corner at 2nd to fix a sniper sightline to upper lobby
Detailed the transition from choke to house
Fixed some visual stuff at top of choke
Removed the lower right window
Made the ramp in logroom a bit shorter heightwise
Fixed a few textures in logroom
Raised the height of the main door to logroom at 2nd by a bit
Made the railings in lobby not solid to projectiles, and clipped them better
Made the rocks a bit taller

Note: There are some visual glitches on the roofs if you look for them- they are not done; nor is any of the detailing.

Screens:

http://i.imgur.com/lu8xNRl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/hqVVVUP.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/LxnfXSN.jpg

This map is a pure jewel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNHiWAM1RBM

Just got back from my vacation. If anyone has found anything wrong with this version of the map, let me know ASAP, it's going to start in the ETF2L Nations Cup tomorrow.

Quick bump here... I haven't done anything to the map in a while because I've been busy restoring a steam locomotive and I'm waiting to hear back from people playing this in the Nations Cup.

If anyone who has played this map in the Nations Cup so far has anything to say about the map, let me hear it so I can make the map better!

Thanks!

Enemy team gave us default win so I approve of this map.

cp_logjam

designed to make kaidus win no matter the circumstances

(totally didn't have you in mind when I first made choke)

So due to current circumstances I have to take a break from TF2, however I'm not stopping mapping... the only reason this hasn't progressed is the only change I have is to re-locate the first forward spawn and I know the map isn't that perfect yet... tell me what you want done!

Thanks to ETF2L for putting cp_logjam into season 19's regular rotation. Should be able to put the map into RC after that.

I don't know much about this map yet but I think there are some fps issues with the second healthpack between last and second. (I don't know the names of places in this map.) I don't think its just a problem with my pc as my friends verified the problem on their end too. fps drops to about 16-40 when looking directly as the sign over the healthpack. It's a bit disruptive for rollouts when attempting to grab the pack.
images

I agree, i don't have any issues on any other map but logjam seems to mess with my frames a lot. It happens everywhere on the map, but mostly on that area that Mearlite described

Interesting. I know exactly why it's doing that-fixing it might get a little interesting. That's the fun of beta, add detail and then try and add shit so that it doesn't lag everyone to hell.

So a quick explanation is there are these things called areaportals which you put on doors/windows/gaps and they effectively "seal" off an area... if the player can see the areaportal, it renders the next area behind it. Right where you're standing, the door to your left makes 2nd rendered, and you can also see choke, which makes mid get rendered.

I'm going to have to do some more optimization. The problem with that is doing more optimization makes it a lot harder to make changes to the map's geometry, so you might have to live with a little drop in frames until I get more feedback making sure that area's geometry is fine.

Edit- looking at the pics you get a full 120 standing further back from the wall? That's weird. Okay, maybe I'm full of shit and need to look into this further. Added to my changelist.

I've discovered the fps issue only occurs about 15 minutes after the map is launched, before that my fps stays stable. I reset the server and reloaded the map and the fps issue disappeared for 15 minutes and came back again. Strange....

That might be a server thing perhaps- I'll be doing some testing soon.

j

I made a short video with thoughts on logjam last.
http://youtu.be/1P0Yg25dtvo
After playing this map a bit i wanna bring up the last cap time again, i think that 4.3-3 seconds depending on 1-2 people on point is way to long, the last is fairly hard to push already and height disadvantage and easy sight lines to the point make it easy to spam and deny the point. Playing point is basically pointless. Please consider lowering it to something more sensible like 1.5 or 2.3 like blands. Going into last and only playing for kills is rather boring to me. Love the map otherwise though. Keep up the good work.

So here's a forewarning-

Hammer's sense of time sucks, it says things are in seconds and they really aren't it seems. I'll mess with the captime, it seems to be a common gripe. It won't be badlands fast I don't think but rather an average of what it is now and what badlands is.

Ok, so i have a lot of feedback for this map, you might not agree with everything i suggest but it's your choice to change stuff.

1. Add a prop here, so that Scout can access upper area easier?

http://i.imgur.com/6hmLBja.jpg

2. Make it so that u can walk on ledge of a Tube, like on Badlands/Gully

http://i.imgur.com/dBnEuXX.jpg

3. Health + Ammo pack are too far away, move them to the right, between 2 Windows maybe?

http://i.imgur.com/Ri5RWaS.jpg

4. Make Sneaky/Shadows area flatter (wall), it feels quite chokey or remove those 2 boxes

http://i.imgur.com/oDAF6yu.jpg

5. Same with this area, it's quite hard to push from here if stickies are there, enemies just going to watch you and spam you while you remove stickies

http://i.imgur.com/YVvnkE3.jpg

6. All this Lobby area feels very flat, maybe you could move it down, because it's easy for Defending team to spam Lobby area, in my opinion

http://i.imgur.com/fqzGzrk.jpg

7. Same with this maybe?

http://i.imgur.com/AQEc1Ub.jpg

8. Floating railings, because of them, you can't jump from Pallet to railings

http://i.imgur.com/jRpKCvI.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/NdGJNNU.jpg

9. This might sound stupid, but i actually think that 2nd spawn would work better here imo

http://i.imgur.com/q4h6Mxu.jpg

10. Raise this, so that Scouts can potentially jump on a roof?

http://i.imgur.com/zpTkc1b.jpg

11. Maybe raise displacements so that Scouts can jump on a fence and then on a roof?

http://i.imgur.com/KjRCOrz.jpg

12. Same, but other place and add prop?

http://i.imgur.com/OEZPuHo.jpg

Ok, now about Health + ammo packs

13. I think you need to move health and ammo packs on 2nd point, like this maybe

http://i.imgur.com/xaOcxT1.jpg

14. Also move this one, to make that dark area more useful

http://i.imgur.com/nJt7dOT.jpg

15. Also move Ammo pack on Mid too

http://i.imgur.com/4OqV51s.jpg

I think that there's a lot of Medium ammo packs on 2nd, you should change some of them to small ones, because if you have a lot of Medium ammo packs, it can potentially cause Engie to be more useful on 2nd, but that can just be me

16. This should stay as it is

http://i.imgur.com/VJllKdM.jpg

17. These 2 areas should have Small ammo packs imo

http://i.imgur.com/ZOFS0Uj.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/nJt7dOT.jpg

Other ammo packs on 2nd point are ok

That's all i have to say about this map as of right now, feel free to agree or disagree with me.

Cheers

Anything that's not quoted is because I fully agree with it, huge feedback popcorp

http://puu.sh/byALc/33717fe248.jpg

Please make this trigger a cylinder that's aligned correctly

Ok so i played with a map in Hammer a bit and tried changing few things

1. How about moving entrance more to the left? what i noticed, in current version, Soldier can easily peek through entrance and spam Lobby area, if you make it like this, it will be a lot more riskier, so Soldier/Scout has to think twice + it makes it more easier for Sniper to get a potential Pick and Spy to get behind

http://i.imgur.com/6XhdZKz.png

2. Also tried lowering that area

http://i.imgur.com/75va5OK.png

3. Sneaky more flatter and less clustered, as suggested above

http://i.imgur.com/6Tegnsx.png

4. And also this

http://i.imgur.com/HFNNJZe.png

Any thoughts about this?

I agree with popcorp in most stuff, generally imo, all these little scout jumps and props you can stand on add a little more flair to the map and can make for interesting plays.

I dont agree with 13 tho, while I think the small health pack should be moved to the front of the point I dont think the medium ammo pack should be moved to inside the room because its essential if you're holding choke and room is too far away for it to be a legit hold.

I think that the last captime should be lowered and that forward should be reworked. It was one of the things I noticed most when I played the map the first times was that forward wasn't as straightforward as it should be (ie: you feel a little lost when you get out of forward if you never played the map) it should be turned in the direction of mid but I also think where popcorp suggested is a bit too far away, still better than the current one tho because its facing the correct direction.

I also agree with morgus that left on last could have a shutter door and a see through window like gullywash for example, not sure how it would work out in this map but it theoretically sounds less spammable and prevents having to uber really early in case you are attacking. This in addition with a decreased cap time should make last a little bit more "badlands" level of interesting.

And the last thing I can remember now is cave, Idk, sometimes it just feels totally irrelevant, theres not much going around there except the textures and it just feels it was a bit forced just to have another entrance into mid/second. Well, its good theres another entrance, but I think it should be reworked so that it feels a bit more relevant and themed with the rest of the map, maybe add some props, rework pack locations. Not really sure about this but its just what I feel about that location