Friends, romans, countrymen, lend me your ears. For too long we have tried to maintain an 8 map pool by adding garbage like sunshine and keeping mediocrity like metalworks. However, the best solution has been under our noses the whole time! cp_yukon was unfairly axed by Killing, who openly admitted to despising the map, and it deserves better.
Here are some points:
1. double heavy was still allowed when yukon was at its most hated. I think this had an enormous impact on the reaction to it, as it made the last nigh impossible to push, easily the most-criticized aspect of the map (this is also true of cp_mainline but that was generally worse to begin with imo).
2. the map has improved a lot with the most "recent" changes to it- the better mid cp and the removal of the godawful pipe of doom on last were super good moves by valve.
3. the map was nixed very early on in the era of the gunboats soldier, meaning the possibilities have not really been explored to their fullest.
4. I like it so suck my diqq
Seriously, name another map more deserving of taking sunshine's place. logjam? total disaster. quay? no one ever liked it. warmerfront? are you shitting me? koth_ashville? I enjoy it but I doubt most would. gpit? well, I'd love to see gpit back in the rotation (my dream maplist: -metalworks -sunshine +gpit +yukon) but the masses seem to overwhelmingly dislike it still.
yukon deserves another shot. It produced many enjoyable games to watch, and it had a really unique feel with the open chokes and huge yet not overly cluttered mid.
WHO IS WITH ME
Friends, romans, countrymen, lend me your ears. For too long we have tried to maintain an 8 map pool by adding garbage like sunshine and keeping mediocrity like metalworks. However, the best solution has been under our noses the whole time! cp_yukon was unfairly axed by Killing, who openly admitted to despising the map, and it deserves better.
Here are some points:
1. double heavy was still allowed when yukon was at its most hated. I think this had an enormous impact on the reaction to it, as it made the last nigh impossible to push, easily the most-criticized aspect of the map (this is also true of cp_mainline but that was generally worse to begin with imo).
2. the map has improved a lot with the most "recent" changes to it- the better mid cp and the removal of the godawful pipe of doom on last were super good moves by valve.
3. the map was nixed very early on in the era of the gunboats soldier, meaning the possibilities have not really been explored to their fullest.
4. I like it so suck my diqq
Seriously, name another map more deserving of taking sunshine's place. logjam? total disaster. quay? no one ever liked it. warmerfront? are you shitting me? koth_ashville? I enjoy it but I doubt most would. gpit? well, I'd love to see gpit back in the rotation (my dream maplist: -metalworks -sunshine +gpit +yukon) but the masses seem to overwhelmingly dislike it still.
yukon deserves another shot. It produced many enjoyable games to watch, and it had a really unique feel with the open chokes and huge yet not overly cluttered mid.
WHO IS WITH ME
mustardoverlordlogjam? total disaster.
???
Though I've never played yukon in 6s, I did enjoy the map back in my pubbing days. Wouldn't mind seeing it played, no idea what the etf2l standing on it is though.
[quote=mustardoverlord]logjam? total disaster.[/quote]
???
Though I've never played yukon in 6s, I did enjoy the map back in my pubbing days. Wouldn't mind seeing it played, no idea what the etf2l standing on it is though.
Gunbladestandin
good joke
Yes to Yukon.
[quote=Gunblade]standin[/quote]
good joke
Yes to Yukon.
let's have a moment of silence for red flag and their permanent mini sentry engineer
let's have a moment of silence for red flag and their permanent mini sentry engineer
yukon looks nice in frag videos
yukon looks nice in frag videos
yukon was awesome tbh i never realised why ppl hated it
yukon was awesome tbh i never realised why ppl hated it
What is this diqq you speak of and where can I suck it?
What is this diqq you speak of and where can I suck it?
Your opinion on the map is discredited slightly when you call logjam and sunshine garbage and disasterous. I mean you might not like them but someone worked hard to make them, and they both made it into the rotation so some people like the maps.
I do like Yukon tho.
Your opinion on the map is discredited slightly when you call logjam and sunshine garbage and disasterous. I mean you might not like them but someone worked hard to make them, and they both made it into the rotation so some people like the maps.
I do like Yukon tho.
you want everything to be sunshine and rainbows but sometimes there's a logjam. mustard just tells it how he sees it no filter
you want everything to be sunshine and rainbows but sometimes there's a logjam. mustard just tells it how he sees it no filter
delete pls i suck at forums
delete pls i suck at forums
wonderlandyou want everything to be sunshine and rainbows but sometimes there's a logjam. mustard just tells it how he sees it no filter
no im pretty sure he doesnt want everything to be sunshine and rainbows he just said he didnt like cp_sunshine
:)
[quote=wonderland]you want everything to be sunshine and rainbows but sometimes there's a logjam. mustard just tells it how he sees it no filter[/quote]
no im pretty sure he doesnt want everything to be sunshine and rainbows he just said he didnt like cp_sunshine
:)
wow i have full nerd stars why do i post so much holy shit
wow i have full nerd stars why do i post so much holy shit
I like gravelpit, I also like Yukon, so I guess I'm with you.
I never really got to play it competitively but the map has a great feel, would love to try, my only concern is that the map feels really enclosed at times, not very big bomb friendly. As for gravelpit never understood why it was removed both in EU and NA, it seems people just don't want to go through the effort of actually learning the map and making strategies.
As for sunshine, I can't really say much, it's decent but doesn't feel anything special. Metalworks is ugly as hell and never liked it, it just doesn't play right IMO. And logjam, well, its getting better but still not quite there yet...
We have yet to see another "Process" quality map. Accepted and loved by everyone right from the start.
I like gravelpit, I also like Yukon, so I guess I'm with you.
I never really got to play it competitively but the map has a great feel, would love to try, my only concern is that the map feels really enclosed at times, not very big bomb friendly. As for gravelpit never understood why it was removed both in EU and NA, it seems people just don't want to go through the effort of actually learning the map and making strategies.
As for sunshine, I can't really say much, it's decent but doesn't feel anything special. Metalworks is ugly as hell and never liked it, it just doesn't play right IMO. And logjam, well, its getting better but still not quite there yet...
We have yet to see another "Process" quality map. Accepted and loved by everyone right from the start.
I can just imagine Killing's response to this...
Killing- "no sorry"
I can just imagine Killing's response to this...
Killing- "no sorry"
i feel we should have two koth maps in the rotation.
it would encourage people to scrim them more often and it would be healthy.
EDIT : Or we could also try to make sunshine better. I think the map creator seems pretty cool with giving it some updates and fixes
i feel we should have two koth maps in the rotation.
it would encourage people to scrim them more often and it would be healthy.
EDIT : Or we could also try to make sunshine better. I think the map creator seems pretty cool with giving it some updates and fixes
Map is too long mustard, thats why I never enjoyed. Did it shrink 20%?
Map is too long mustard, thats why I never enjoyed. Did it shrink 20%?
I liked yukon. I really liked yukon. I still think sunshine is better. This past season of ESEA has been the first season I can recall where there hasn't been a single map that was just a total piece of shit. I wouldn't mind keeping the map pool the same for a few seasons.
Then again, maybe I'm biased because sunshine has more than two colors and players aren't totally invisible on it. :-)
I liked yukon. I [i]really[/i] liked yukon. I still think sunshine is better. This past season of ESEA has been the first season I can recall where there hasn't been a single map that was just a total piece of shit. I wouldn't mind keeping the map pool the same for a few seasons.
Then again, maybe I'm biased because sunshine has more than two colors and players aren't totally invisible on it. :-)
Votes out Gpit
Hates new map substitute for Gpit
Now want Gpit back
Rofl
Votes out Gpit
Hates new map substitute for Gpit
Now want Gpit back
Rofl
i think the most hated maps nowadays are metalworks/granary/sunshine but the most outspoken people about these maps never have premium to actually try to vote them out lol
yukon might be cool i guess
i think the most hated maps nowadays are metalworks/granary/sunshine but the most outspoken people about these maps never have premium to actually try to vote them out lol
yukon might be cool i guess
Watch killing add airfield
Watch killing add airfield
The problem with sunshine is that you can get away with too many mistakes. You can wipe pushing 2nd and still end up keeping mid without much of a fight.
Other maps generally encourage punishing you appropriately for big mistakes like this, but sunshine just feels like a big DMfest without much else.
The problem with sunshine is that you can get away with too many mistakes. You can wipe pushing 2nd and still end up keeping mid without much of a fight.
Other maps generally encourage punishing you appropriately for big mistakes like this, but sunshine just feels like a big DMfest without much else.
I never really understood why Yukon got removed in the first place. I can see how annoying it was to push last a really long time ago, but the map has gone through a lot of necessary changes to make it really great. I absolutely love how you can play mid-fights many different ways (and even viably with a sniper).
I would say that Yukon has more balance and interesting play than some of the maps in the current rotation (Granary comes to mind). I would definitely be in favor of bringing back Yukon.
Actually, maybe I'll throw it in the GXL map pool?
TurinThe problem with sunshine is that you can get away with too many mistakes. You can wipe pushing 2nd and still end up keeping mid without much of a fight.
Other maps generally encourage punishing you appropriately for big mistakes like this, but sunshine just feels like a big DMfest without much else.
I don't agree with any of this. The first part of your post is only true if the other team wipes and only about two of your teammates survive. In that case, the other team's new spawns will get there quick enough to stop two people (but you can honestly say this about any map). However, if your team survives the fight with a good 4+ people, you will take back the mid point without much trouble.
Sunshine definitely punishes you for mistakes just as hard as other maps, maybe even harder. The only map I can think of that definitely punishes harder for mistakes is Granary.
I never really understood why Yukon got removed in the first place. I can see how annoying it was to push last a really long time ago, but the map has gone through a lot of necessary changes to make it really great. I absolutely love how you can play mid-fights many different ways (and even viably with a sniper).
I would say that Yukon has more balance and interesting play than some of the maps in the current rotation (Granary comes to mind). I would definitely be in favor of bringing back Yukon.
Actually, maybe I'll throw it in the GXL map pool?
[quote=Turin]The problem with sunshine is that you can get away with too many mistakes. You can wipe pushing 2nd and still end up keeping mid without much of a fight.
Other maps generally encourage punishing you appropriately for big mistakes like this, but sunshine just feels like a big DMfest without much else.[/quote]
I don't agree with any of this. The first part of your post is only true if the other team wipes and only about two of your teammates survive. In that case, the other team's new spawns will get there quick enough to stop two people (but you can honestly say this about any map). However, if your team survives the fight with a good 4+ people, you will take back the mid point without much trouble.
Sunshine definitely punishes you for mistakes just as hard as other maps, maybe even harder. The only map I can think of that definitely punishes harder for mistakes is Granary.