EDIT: Compiling works now. ETA Wednesday, Dec. 10
So. I was copypasting the new finished and detailed last from RED side to BLU side. I sealed off the map, optimized, and created a much better skybox.
Then I went to compile.
And I saw this.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84556731/sunshine/Screenshot%202014-12-06%2002.41.13.png
My heart sank. For those who do not know: basically, there is a maximum limit of brushsides that you can compile in the Source engine. The new detailed version of Sunshine has gone over this limit. How much, I can't determine; but all I do know is I can't compile now. I'm stuck.
Effectively this will bring all development to a halt, until I can figure out how to convert brush-based geometry to props through an old esoteric program named Propper. And considering I have no idea how to use Propper, it might be... a while...
I'm really sorry. I guess I went overboard detailing this thing. I just wanted it to look as good as it possibly could but now I'm in a position that could delay RC3 by weeks if I don't find someone who knows how to fix this. I'm really lost right now. If anyone is out there that knows how to use Propper, please contact me. Thanks.
[b]EDIT: Compiling works now. ETA Wednesday, Dec. 10[/b]
So. I was copypasting the new finished and detailed last from RED side to BLU side. I sealed off the map, optimized, and created a much better skybox.
Then I went to compile.
And I saw this.
[img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84556731/sunshine/Screenshot%202014-12-06%2002.41.13.png[/img]
My heart sank. For those who do not know: basically, there is a maximum limit of brushsides that you can compile in the Source engine. The new detailed version of Sunshine has gone over this limit. How much, I can't determine; but all I do know is I can't compile now. I'm stuck.
Effectively this will bring all development to a halt, until I can figure out how to convert brush-based geometry to props through an old esoteric program named Propper. And considering I have no idea how to use Propper, it might be... a while...
I'm really sorry. I guess I went overboard detailing this thing. I just wanted it to look as good as it possibly could but now I'm in a position that could delay RC3 by weeks if I don't find someone who knows how to fix this. I'm really lost right now. If anyone is out there that knows how to use Propper, please contact me. Thanks.
Add me on steam, I somehow have a working version of propper.
Add me on steam, I somehow have a working version of propper.
Spent the whole day today configuring and making Propper work. I finally managed to, and now, thank the heavens, cp_sunshine_rc3 will compile. I'm so relieved.
ETA is Wednesday the 10th. I promise that will be the day it is released.
Get hype!! I'm also leaking a super special sneak preview of the new design of last, from an early RC3 build.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84556731/sunshine/2014-12-04_00006.jpg
I hope you'll love the map when it's done :3
Spent the whole day today configuring and making Propper work. I finally managed to, and now, thank the heavens, cp_sunshine_rc3 will compile. I'm so relieved.
ETA is Wednesday the 10th. I promise that will be the day it is released.
[b]Get hype!![/b] I'm also leaking a super special sneak preview of the new design of last, from an early RC3 build.
[img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84556731/sunshine/2014-12-04_00006.jpg[/img]
I hope you'll love the map when it's done :3
As I said in steamchat, this new last is really really beautiful. It's really detailed and interesting, but it's also clean and smooth for 6v6. An excellent design.
As I said in steamchat, this new last is really really beautiful. It's really detailed and interesting, but it's also clean and smooth for 6v6. An excellent design.
Phi, thank you for this map and your continued support of it.
Phi, thank you for this map and your continued support of it.
Dang that's pretty. Has the labyrinth been bulldozed though?
Dang that's pretty. Has the labyrinth been bulldozed though?
[quote=Phi]
[b]Get hype!![/b] [/quote]
im hype
Hmm that looks really different
Hmm that looks really different
[B]RC3 IS HERE![/B]
[url=https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84556731/sunshine/cp_sunshine_rc3.bsp.bz2]DOWNLOAD[/url]
This version was months in development. I'm proud to present what shall be the final version of the map for quite some time, barring exploits or a RC3A.
Changelog:
-remade last entirely
-remade last lobby entirely
-hdr is now on
-new skybox that's a ton better
-added lots of detail across the whole map
-made various brushwork structures (i.e. lighthouse) into models
-better lighting in general
-an enormous amount of graphical and clipping fixes (thank you everyone for helping with this)
-deer
Screenshots:
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84556731/sunshine/2014-12-10_00012.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84556731/sunshine/2014-12-10_00003.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84556731/sunshine/2014-12-10_00006.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84556731/sunshine/2014-12-10_00008.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84556731/sunshine/2014-12-10_00009.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84556731/sunshine/2014-12-10_00010.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84556731/sunshine/2014-12-10_00015.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84556731/sunshine/2014-12-10_00004.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84556731/sunshine/2014-12-10_00018.jpg[/IMG]
Cheers, I hope you love it! :3
looks amazing, it's really crazy to see how far this map has come
looks amazing, it's really crazy to see how far this map has come
Man, that's gorgeous Phi. Can't wait to see how it plays!
Man, that's gorgeous Phi. Can't wait to see how it plays!
To reiterate: there will be an RC4 coming out in a week or so, once everyone's found clipping errors/graphical glitches/that sort of stuff. They're probably all over the place, especially the new last, so don't be too mad when they do happen. They'll be fixed.
To reiterate: there will be an RC4 coming out in a week or so, once everyone's found clipping errors/graphical glitches/that sort of stuff. They're probably all over the place, especially the new last, so don't be too mad when they do happen. They'll be fixed.
Very pretty. Can't wait to see how last plays
Very pretty. Can't wait to see how last plays
I must say I like this version overall. However, one major flaw of the map has not been addressed yet in my opinion: the amount of paths leading into and out of last (especially the extensive basement). The huge mid is another story but it's probably too late to change anything there.
I must say I like this version overall. However, one major flaw of the map has not been addressed yet in my opinion: the amount of paths leading into and out of last (especially the extensive basement). The huge mid is another story but it's probably too late to change anything there.
f_blueI must say I like this version overall. However, one major flaw of the map has not been addressed yet in my opinion: the amount of paths leading into and out of last (especially the extensive basement). The huge mid is another story but it's probably too late to change anything there.
I agree, to some extent. The paths leading out of last have been simplified a tiny bit from rc1a (the version played in ESEA) and they should work just fine right about now. I'll make edits to them if need be but I don't think they're a huge issue.
Regarding the mid, I think it's just an issue of getting used to - yeah, the classes are balanced a little bit differently than most maps, but that really should just invite teams to change up the meta a little bit. Nothing drastic. The mid still plays fairly well and with practice and adjustment, teams as well as the map itself can develop to accommodate each other.
Thanks for all the feedback, though. Keep it coming so I can polish everything up for rc4!
[quote=f_blue]I must say I like this version overall. However, one major flaw of the map has not been addressed yet in my opinion: the amount of paths leading into and out of last (especially the extensive basement). The huge mid is another story but it's probably too late to change anything there.[/quote]
I agree, to some extent. The paths leading out of last have been simplified a tiny bit from rc1a (the version played in ESEA) and they should work just fine right about now. I'll make edits to them if need be but I don't think they're a huge issue.
Regarding the mid, I think it's just an issue of getting used to - yeah, the classes are balanced a little bit differently than most maps, but that really should just invite teams to change up the meta a little bit. Nothing drastic. The mid still plays fairly well and with practice and adjustment, teams as well as the map itself can develop to accommodate each other.
Thanks for all the feedback, though. Keep it coming so I can polish everything up for rc4!
Just played a premdoublemix on it in Europe, and people seem to be having framerate issues, especially on older rigs. I understand it's difficult to fix visleafs and stuff this late in development, but this map has so much potential and the framerate is a legitimate issue and should be prioritised for future updates.
Just played a premdoublemix on it in Europe, and people seem to be having framerate issues, especially on older rigs. I understand it's difficult to fix visleafs and stuff this late in development, but this map has so much potential and the framerate is a legitimate issue and should be prioritised for future updates.
I get mad fps drops looking from light house to choke/cafe. I wonder if there is any optimization magic that can happen there.
I get mad fps drops looking from light house to choke/cafe. I wonder if there is any optimization magic that can happen there.
Ond_kajaJust played a premdoublemix on it in Europe, and people seem to be having framerate issues, especially on older rigs. I understand it's difficult to fix visleafs and stuff this late in development, but this map has so much potential and the framerate is a legitimate issue and should be prioritised for future updates.
Ahh man that's no good. I can work on it, I hate framerate issues. I'll have to figure out some solution to it somehow
[quote=Ond_kaja]Just played a premdoublemix on it in Europe, and people seem to be having framerate issues, especially on older rigs. I understand it's difficult to fix visleafs and stuff this late in development, but this map has so much potential and the framerate is a legitimate issue and should be prioritised for future updates.[/quote]
Ahh man that's no good. I can work on it, I hate framerate issues. I'll have to figure out some solution to it somehow
PhiOnd_kajaJust played a premdoublemix on it in Europe, and people seem to be having framerate issues, especially on older rigs. I understand it's difficult to fix visleafs and stuff this late in development, but this map has so much potential and the framerate is a legitimate issue and should be prioritised for future updates.
Ahh man that's no good. I can work on it, I hate framerate issues. I'll have to figure out some solution to it somehow
Well. It seems that the lighthouses are drawn from the mids, which I think is the biggest problem. Maybe it is possible to prevent second being drawn from mid (and vice versa) and put the top of the lighthouses in the 3d skybox instead, along with the rest of the water that's on the map.
[quote=Phi][quote=Ond_kaja]Just played a premdoublemix on it in Europe, and people seem to be having framerate issues, especially on older rigs. I understand it's difficult to fix visleafs and stuff this late in development, but this map has so much potential and the framerate is a legitimate issue and should be prioritised for future updates.[/quote]
Ahh man that's no good. I can work on it, I hate framerate issues. I'll have to figure out some solution to it somehow[/quote]
Well. It seems that the lighthouses are drawn from the mids, which I think is the biggest problem. Maybe it is possible to prevent second being drawn from mid (and vice versa) and put the top of the lighthouses in the 3d skybox instead, along with the rest of the water that's on the map.
I love the new map except for the massive frame drops (specifically the lighthouse area on cp2)
I love the new map except for the massive frame drops (specifically the lighthouse area on cp2)
Ond_kajaPhiOnd_kajaJust played a premdoublemix on it in Europe, and people seem to be having framerate issues, especially on older rigs. I understand it's difficult to fix visleafs and stuff this late in development, but this map has so much potential and the framerate is a legitimate issue and should be prioritised for future updates.
Ahh man that's no good. I can work on it, I hate framerate issues. I'll have to figure out some solution to it somehow
Well. It seems that the lighthouses are drawn from the mids, which I think is the biggest problem. Maybe it is possible to prevent second being drawn from mid (and vice versa) and put the top of the lighthouses in the 3d skybox instead, along with the rest of the water that's on the map.
That's not actually the issue, from what I've found. I did a really poor job optimizing RC3 and I think I actually messed the optimization up and made it a lot WORSE than previous versions.
I'm working on fixing it. I think I know exactly what the problem is. Don't worry, this is what I said RC4 would be for. Just make sure to provide all the clipping feedback you can so that the next update can be really well finished.
[quote=Ond_kaja][quote=Phi][quote=Ond_kaja]Just played a premdoublemix on it in Europe, and people seem to be having framerate issues, especially on older rigs. I understand it's difficult to fix visleafs and stuff this late in development, but this map has so much potential and the framerate is a legitimate issue and should be prioritised for future updates.[/quote]
Ahh man that's no good. I can work on it, I hate framerate issues. I'll have to figure out some solution to it somehow[/quote]
Well. It seems that the lighthouses are drawn from the mids, which I think is the biggest problem. Maybe it is possible to prevent second being drawn from mid (and vice versa) and put the top of the lighthouses in the 3d skybox instead, along with the rest of the water that's on the map.[/quote]
That's not actually the issue, from what I've found. I did a really poor job optimizing RC3 and I think I actually messed the optimization up and made it a lot WORSE than previous versions.
I'm working on fixing it. I think I know exactly what the problem is. Don't worry, this is what I said RC4 would be for. Just make sure to provide all the clipping feedback you can so that the next update can be really well finished.
Did you accidentally change the grass to high-density details, maybe forget to set it to low-density? Turning off detail sprites fixed my perf problems on the old versions of sunshine.
Did you accidentally change the grass to high-density details, maybe forget to set it to low-density? Turning off detail sprites fixed my perf problems on the old versions of sunshine.
http://i.imgur.com/EXSndsZ.jpg
you can stick all over this wall
i dont think it works on the other side of the map
http://i.imgur.com/EXSndsZ.jpg
you can stick all over this wall
i dont think it works on the other side of the map
Few things I noticed, some things might be design decisions but thought I'd bring them up:
http://i.imgur.com/3GYeqEe.png
You can get up here.
http://i.imgur.com/nMa96SP.png
As you walk along these walls, you get slowed down or stopped completely. I sometimes use these walls to jump off of and I'm sure others do too, so kind of messes that up. Happens on both sides of the map.
http://i.imgur.com/2Plz6S5.png
You can land on the corners of the roof, and move along the arrow, but you can't jump on the roof in other places. Same applies to the other side of the roof. You also can't walk forward (to get to the top of the roof) from this position. Not sure if this is intentional.
http://i.imgur.com/KBvpztZ.png
You can get to the position I'm standing at above the door out of last without any discernible ledge to stand on. You can also stand where the red line is, however you can't get to the area shown in the below link, despite having the same ledge as on the other side of the wall:
http://i.imgur.com/knRN5TK.png
That might be nitpicking, but thought I'd point it out in case. Overall I think you did a fine job.
Few things I noticed, some things might be design decisions but thought I'd bring them up:
http://i.imgur.com/3GYeqEe.png
You can get up here.
http://i.imgur.com/nMa96SP.png
As you walk along these walls, you get slowed down or stopped completely. I sometimes use these walls to jump off of and I'm sure others do too, so kind of messes that up. Happens on both sides of the map.
http://i.imgur.com/2Plz6S5.png
You can land on the corners of the roof, and move along the arrow, but you can't jump on the roof in other places. Same applies to the other side of the roof. You also can't walk forward (to get to the top of the roof) from this position. Not sure if this is intentional.
http://i.imgur.com/KBvpztZ.png
You can get to the position I'm standing at above the door out of last without any discernible ledge to stand on. You can also stand where the red line is, however you can't get to the area shown in the below link, despite having the same ledge as on the other side of the wall:
http://i.imgur.com/knRN5TK.png
That might be nitpicking, but thought I'd point it out in case. Overall I think you did a fine job.
PhiOnd_kajaPhiOnd_kajaJust played a premdoublemix on it in Europe, and people seem to be having framerate issues, especially on older rigs. I understand it's difficult to fix visleafs and stuff this late in development, but this map has so much potential and the framerate is a legitimate issue and should be prioritised for future updates.
Ahh man that's no good. I can work on it, I hate framerate issues. I'll have to figure out some solution to it somehow
Well. It seems that the lighthouses are drawn from the mids, which I think is the biggest problem. Maybe it is possible to prevent second being drawn from mid (and vice versa) and put the top of the lighthouses in the 3d skybox instead, along with the rest of the water that's on the map.
That's not actually the issue, from what I've found. I did a really poor job optimizing RC3 and I think I actually messed the optimization up and made it a lot WORSE than previous versions.
I'm working on fixing it. I think I know exactly what the problem is. Don't worry, this is what I said RC4 would be for. Just make sure to provide all the clipping feedback you can so that the next update can be really well finished.
The lighthouses themselves aren't the problem, but it's a symptom that the entire second point is being rendered when you stand on mid, can't say that this is the case because I haven't looked at the map too thoroughly. Another upside of having the lighthouses in the 3d skybox would be that they would always get rendered regardless of visleafs.
Another problem in regards to optimising is that you don't put nodraw on textures that are below displacements, displacements don't block vision so these textures get rendered anyway unless you put nodraw on them.
But for clipping errors:
setpos -5046 7895 513
setpos -5121 7474 625
setpos -3800 7480 -110
setpos -608 3847 196
Also tended to get stuck on the spiral stairs on second point. Perhaps make it a tiny bit farther from the center.
Can see through the bottom of the window (on all windows it seems):
setpos -760.238586 3592.410645 129.031311;setang 2.227793 -86.828278 0.000000
Also found that you can stand on top of the slanted clip brush on top of the mid point.
Was able to stand inside the awning on the slanted clip brush (remove the clip brush and make the brush beneath it non-solid func_brush):
setpos -1352.641602 2115.120605 65.031311;setang -27.973633 -92.319298 0.000000
Make these lamps non-solid:
setpos -4763.606445 6887.968750 -254.968689;setang -43.531898 -138.022354 0.000000
Can completely hide stickies inside these rocks:
setpos -3201.395508 3366.437012 132.920227;setang 41.012444 -53.230721 0.000000
You get stuck mid-air while sticky jumping around here:
setpos -2499.772217 5393.065918 1232.214722;setang 3.629202 175.946640 0.000000
- Avoid slanted clip brushes in general, you can often just stand on top of them.
- The rooftops should be made non-solid func_brush and the clip brushes should be flush with the wall (as opposed to the rooftops) so that players don't collide with them mid-fight.
Anyway, this map was really well polished from what I found, good job.
[quote=Phi][quote=Ond_kaja][quote=Phi][quote=Ond_kaja]Just played a premdoublemix on it in Europe, and people seem to be having framerate issues, especially on older rigs. I understand it's difficult to fix visleafs and stuff this late in development, but this map has so much potential and the framerate is a legitimate issue and should be prioritised for future updates.[/quote]
Ahh man that's no good. I can work on it, I hate framerate issues. I'll have to figure out some solution to it somehow[/quote]
Well. It seems that the lighthouses are drawn from the mids, which I think is the biggest problem. Maybe it is possible to prevent second being drawn from mid (and vice versa) and put the top of the lighthouses in the 3d skybox instead, along with the rest of the water that's on the map.[/quote]
That's not actually the issue, from what I've found. I did a really poor job optimizing RC3 and I think I actually messed the optimization up and made it a lot WORSE than previous versions.
I'm working on fixing it. I think I know exactly what the problem is. Don't worry, this is what I said RC4 would be for. Just make sure to provide all the clipping feedback you can so that the next update can be really well finished.[/quote]
The lighthouses themselves aren't the problem, but it's a symptom that the entire second point is being rendered when you stand on mid, can't say that this is the case because I haven't looked at the map too thoroughly. Another upside of having the lighthouses in the 3d skybox would be that they would always get rendered regardless of visleafs.
Another problem in regards to optimising is that you don't put nodraw on textures that are below displacements, displacements don't block vision so these textures get rendered anyway unless you put nodraw on them.
But for clipping errors:
setpos -5046 7895 513
setpos -5121 7474 625
setpos -3800 7480 -110
setpos -608 3847 196
Also tended to get stuck on the spiral stairs on second point. Perhaps make it a tiny bit farther from the center.
Can see through the bottom of the window (on all windows it seems):
setpos -760.238586 3592.410645 129.031311;setang 2.227793 -86.828278 0.000000
Also found that you can stand on top of the slanted clip brush on top of the mid point.
Was able to stand inside the awning on the slanted clip brush (remove the clip brush and make the brush beneath it non-solid func_brush):
setpos -1352.641602 2115.120605 65.031311;setang -27.973633 -92.319298 0.000000
Make these lamps non-solid:
setpos -4763.606445 6887.968750 -254.968689;setang -43.531898 -138.022354 0.000000
Can completely hide stickies inside these rocks:
setpos -3201.395508 3366.437012 132.920227;setang 41.012444 -53.230721 0.000000
You get stuck mid-air while sticky jumping around here:
setpos -2499.772217 5393.065918 1232.214722;setang 3.629202 175.946640 0.000000
- Avoid slanted clip brushes in general, you can often just stand on top of them.
- The rooftops should be made non-solid func_brush and the clip brushes should be flush with the wall (as opposed to the rooftops) so that players don't collide with them mid-fight.
Anyway, this map was really well polished from what I found, good job.
Yes. Very good. While I fix optimization nitpick the map to all hell and back so it can be really polished for RC4. Everything mentioned above is wonderful and I'll be fixing as much as I can figure out how to fix for the next version. Thanks a ton!!
Yes. Very good. While I fix optimization nitpick the map to all hell and back so it can be [i]really[/i] polished for RC4. Everything mentioned above is wonderful and I'll be fixing as much as I can figure out how to fix for the next version. Thanks a ton!!