unflets make gunboats demo usable plz
I wonder what 6s would be like now if demos won that soldier vs demo update
The demoman nerf: a semi-statistical analysis
posted in
TF2 General Discussion
[quote=unf]lets make gunboats demo usable plz[/quote]
I wonder what 6s would be like now if demos won that soldier vs demo update
I wonder what 6s would be like now if demos won that soldier vs demo update
Stupidest part for me personally is that demo is still really powerful in pubs. The radius doesn't affect much when you're playing people who move in straight lines/sentry nests/heavies, and those who know how to dodge weren't ever complaining about demo's dominance in public servers anyways. Still don't understand why they didn't just change the clip size...
Stupidest part for me personally is that demo is still really powerful in pubs. The radius doesn't affect much when you're playing people who move in straight lines/sentry nests/heavies, and those who know how to dodge weren't ever complaining about demo's dominance in public servers anyways. Still don't understand why they didn't just change the clip size...
komorebi Still don't understand why they didn't just change the clip size...
because those first 3 stickies that hit a team walking through choke are the ones that shut down a push
[quote=komorebi] Still don't understand why they didn't just change the clip size...[/quote]
because those first 3 stickies that hit a team walking through choke are the ones that shut down a push
because those first 3 stickies that hit a team walking through choke are the ones that shut down a push
KanecoExcept that it does affect the metagame a lot and makes the game feel so much more passive, if you don't have a demo doing as much damage as before, the other classes are gonna take more time on cleanup kills, hence longer and more drawn out fights/pushes, also teamfights are a joke because your job is basically to put stickies on the ground and wait for the enemy to pass over.
Like scouts ever needed a buff. There is literally no reason to play demo because you have very little impact compared to what you had before. It has become a extremely boring class.
The balance would be fine if valve regularly tweaked the game across the board according to feedback, but they pretty much dont care, they just did this because of the SPUF pubbers intense crying. So instead they fucked over the class everyone was whining about and now we have to deal with it.
do u play tf2?
do u know/remember what its like to push into demos who can actually aim?
everything u say is so exaggerated its really hard for me to imagine it actually occurring
if anything chokes feel much easier to push into as heavy classes because the airburst/chipshot stickies that people like duwatna and bdonski love doing dont absolutely suffocate u anymore and give u more room to get through
long-range stickies are still a thing just not the ONLY thing u should be doing on demo
demo had been much more powerful than the other classes for a while and now its not, if players arent shit theyll be able to adapt
Show Content
i am looking at u unf
[quote=Kaneco]
Except that it does affect the metagame a lot and makes the game feel so much more passive, if you don't have a demo doing as much damage as before, the other classes are gonna take more time on cleanup kills, hence longer and more drawn out fights/pushes, also teamfights are a joke because your job is basically to put stickies on the ground and wait for the enemy to pass over.
Like scouts ever needed a buff. There is literally no reason to play demo because you have very little impact compared to what you had before. It has become a extremely boring class.
The balance would be fine if valve regularly tweaked the game across the board according to feedback, but they pretty much dont care, they just did this because of the SPUF pubbers intense crying. So instead they fucked over the class everyone was whining about and now we have to deal with it.[/quote]
do u play tf2?
do u know/remember what its like to push into demos who can actually aim?
everything u say is so exaggerated its really hard for me to imagine it actually occurring
if anything chokes feel much easier to push into as heavy classes because the airburst/chipshot stickies that people like duwatna and bdonski love doing dont absolutely suffocate u anymore and give u more room to get through
long-range stickies are still a thing just not the ONLY thing u should be doing on demo
demo had been much more powerful than the other classes for a while and now its not, if players arent shit theyll be able to adapt
[spoiler]i am looking at u unf[/spoiler]
Except that it does affect the metagame a lot and makes the game feel so much more passive, if you don't have a demo doing as much damage as before, the other classes are gonna take more time on cleanup kills, hence longer and more drawn out fights/pushes, also teamfights are a joke because your job is basically to put stickies on the ground and wait for the enemy to pass over.
Like scouts ever needed a buff. There is literally no reason to play demo because you have very little impact compared to what you had before. It has become a extremely boring class.
The balance would be fine if valve regularly tweaked the game across the board according to feedback, but they pretty much dont care, they just did this because of the SPUF pubbers intense crying. So instead they fucked over the class everyone was whining about and now we have to deal with it.[/quote]
do u play tf2?
do u know/remember what its like to push into demos who can actually aim?
everything u say is so exaggerated its really hard for me to imagine it actually occurring
if anything chokes feel much easier to push into as heavy classes because the airburst/chipshot stickies that people like duwatna and bdonski love doing dont absolutely suffocate u anymore and give u more room to get through
long-range stickies are still a thing just not the ONLY thing u should be doing on demo
demo had been much more powerful than the other classes for a while and now its not, if players arent shit theyll be able to adapt
[spoiler]i am looking at u unf[/spoiler]
i put 2 stickies at a non buffed pyros feet and he didnt die
i put 2 stickies at a non buffed pyros feet and he didnt die
mdo u play tf2?
do u know/remember what its like to push into demos who can actually aim?
everything u say is so exaggerated its really hard for me to imagine it actually occurring
if anything chokes feel much easier to push into as heavy classes because the airburst/chipshot stickies that people like duwatna and bdonski love doing dont absolutely suffocate u anymore and give u more room to get through
long-range stickies are still a thing just not the ONLY thing u should be doing on demo
demo had been much more powerful than the other classes for a while and now its not, if players arent shit theyll be able to adapt
Show Contenti am looking at u unf
I actually have quite a few hours on this game, more than 1k on demo.
It just doesn't feel the same, I'm saying from the experience I had in the last few weeks where I have been playing quite a lot of pickups, and demoman has so much of a more reduced impact. If you average logs you get like a 30% dmg reduction prepatch/pospatch, I would say that's a big fuckin deal. Just earlier today I played a pickup where I thought I was doing good damage across the board, getting kills, etc... and then when I checked the logs, 7k dmg. lol.
It's easy for you to say to "adapt" when it's not your mainclass or you haven't invested 1k hours on it, I would love to see how would you react is they nerfed rockets damage by 30%, because that's about the same treatment the demo got, indirectly through the radius but that's the end result. Also saying you should adapt to a much boring playstyle? It's kinda like saying, "Remember all the things you loved about your mainclass? Forget about that, now you should play like retard and shoot the ground for maximum damage."
Also any nerf to a explosive class is an indirect buff to scouts and we don't need more of those walking 100 dmg meatshots sentries.
I'm not saying it's the end of the world, at least it's not as bad as the last nerf that made 0 sense, but it's still a big deal in terms of damage in the end, and you feel a little powerless at times, you just don't have the same impact in teamfights and pushes. Reducing the clip would have made more sense, and force smarter ammo economy.
[quote=m]
do u play tf2?
do u know/remember what its like to push into demos who can actually aim?
everything u say is so exaggerated its really hard for me to imagine it actually occurring
if anything chokes feel much easier to push into as heavy classes because the airburst/chipshot stickies that people like duwatna and bdonski love doing dont absolutely suffocate u anymore and give u more room to get through
long-range stickies are still a thing just not the ONLY thing u should be doing on demo
demo had been much more powerful than the other classes for a while and now its not, if players arent shit theyll be able to adapt
[spoiler]i am looking at u unf[/spoiler][/quote]
I actually have quite a few hours on this game, more than 1k on demo.
It just doesn't feel the same, I'm saying from the experience I had in the last few weeks where I have been playing quite a lot of pickups, and demoman has so much of a more reduced impact. If you average logs you get like a 30% dmg reduction prepatch/pospatch, I would say that's a big fuckin deal. Just earlier today I played a pickup where I thought I was doing good damage across the board, getting kills, etc... and then when I checked the logs, [url=http://logs.tf/644778]7k dmg[/url]. lol.
It's easy for you to say to "adapt" when it's not your mainclass or you haven't invested 1k hours on it, I would love to see how would you react is they nerfed rockets damage by 30%, because that's about the same treatment the demo got, indirectly through the radius but that's the end result. Also saying you should adapt to a much boring playstyle? It's kinda like saying, "Remember all the things you loved about your mainclass? Forget about that, now you should play like retard and shoot the ground for maximum damage."
Also any nerf to a explosive class is an indirect buff to scouts and we don't need more of those walking 100 dmg meatshots sentries.
I'm not saying it's the end of the world, at least it's not as bad as the last nerf that made 0 sense, but it's still a big deal in terms of damage in the end, and you feel a little powerless at times, you just don't have the same impact in teamfights and pushes. Reducing the clip would have made more sense, and force smarter ammo economy.
do u play tf2?
do u know/remember what its like to push into demos who can actually aim?
everything u say is so exaggerated its really hard for me to imagine it actually occurring
if anything chokes feel much easier to push into as heavy classes because the airburst/chipshot stickies that people like duwatna and bdonski love doing dont absolutely suffocate u anymore and give u more room to get through
long-range stickies are still a thing just not the ONLY thing u should be doing on demo
demo had been much more powerful than the other classes for a while and now its not, if players arent shit theyll be able to adapt
[spoiler]i am looking at u unf[/spoiler][/quote]
I actually have quite a few hours on this game, more than 1k on demo.
It just doesn't feel the same, I'm saying from the experience I had in the last few weeks where I have been playing quite a lot of pickups, and demoman has so much of a more reduced impact. If you average logs you get like a 30% dmg reduction prepatch/pospatch, I would say that's a big fuckin deal. Just earlier today I played a pickup where I thought I was doing good damage across the board, getting kills, etc... and then when I checked the logs, [url=http://logs.tf/644778]7k dmg[/url]. lol.
It's easy for you to say to "adapt" when it's not your mainclass or you haven't invested 1k hours on it, I would love to see how would you react is they nerfed rockets damage by 30%, because that's about the same treatment the demo got, indirectly through the radius but that's the end result. Also saying you should adapt to a much boring playstyle? It's kinda like saying, "Remember all the things you loved about your mainclass? Forget about that, now you should play like retard and shoot the ground for maximum damage."
Also any nerf to a explosive class is an indirect buff to scouts and we don't need more of those walking 100 dmg meatshots sentries.
I'm not saying it's the end of the world, at least it's not as bad as the last nerf that made 0 sense, but it's still a big deal in terms of damage in the end, and you feel a little powerless at times, you just don't have the same impact in teamfights and pushes. Reducing the clip would have made more sense, and force smarter ammo economy.
every time valve changes the game you can bank on someone calling it now too passive or unfun or random or blah blah blah
you have to put in a thimble-sized amount of effort to change up your demo game and you STILL complain and pine for the old days and make up dramatic excuses to cover for how shit you are. holy shit.
you can't fool yourself into thinking demo was only changed because of "stupid SPUF pubbers", stickies have been the most complained about weapon since fucking release. old and new players ALL recognize how strong it is. and it got away with the safest nerf possible.
lol6s
every time valve changes the game you can bank on someone calling it now too passive or unfun or random or blah blah blah
you have to put in a thimble-sized amount of effort to change up your demo game and you STILL complain and pine for the old days and make up dramatic excuses to cover for how shit you are. holy shit.
you can't fool yourself into thinking demo was only changed because of "stupid SPUF pubbers", stickies have been the most complained about weapon since fucking release. old and new players ALL recognize how strong it is. and it got away with the safest nerf possible.
lol6s
you have to put in a thimble-sized amount of effort to change up your demo game and you STILL complain and pine for the old days and make up dramatic excuses to cover for how shit you are. holy shit.
you can't fool yourself into thinking demo was only changed because of "stupid SPUF pubbers", stickies have been the most complained about weapon since fucking release. old and new players ALL recognize how strong it is. and it got away with the safest nerf possible.
lol6s
time for that promod yet? you can give demo 12 stickies and consistent 130 damage shots.
time for that promod yet? you can give demo 12 stickies and consistent 130 damage shots.
I get where you're coming from Kaneco but you can't just refuse to adapt. Your team's performance and your deaths imply a lot of room for aggression, which seems like the new name of the game to me. I haven't gotten to play as much as I'd like since the change but it's either that or playing super-duper passive, which is boring. If we look on the bright side, being a less important pick means we have more freedom to go for bigger players and/or die. More bombs for position and stuff. You can still make space as a human cannonball, which may eventually end up being more exciting than the traditional style of play.
I get where you're coming from Kaneco but you can't just refuse to adapt. Your team's performance and your deaths imply a lot of room for aggression, which seems like the new name of the game to me. I haven't gotten to play as much as I'd like since the change but it's either that or playing super-duper passive, which is boring. If we look on the bright side, being a less important pick means we have more freedom to go for bigger players and/or die. More bombs for position and stuff. You can still make space as a human cannonball, which may eventually end up being more exciting than the traditional style of play.
Kanecomdo u play tf2?
do u know/remember what its like to push into demos who can actually aim?
everything u say is so exaggerated its really hard for me to imagine it actually occurring
if anything chokes feel much easier to push into as heavy classes because the airburst/chipshot stickies that people like duwatna and bdonski love doing dont absolutely suffocate u anymore and give u more room to get through
long-range stickies are still a thing just not the ONLY thing u should be doing on demo
demo had been much more powerful than the other classes for a while and now its not, if players arent shit theyll be able to adapt
Show Contenti am looking at u unf
I actually have quite a few hours on this game, more than 1k on demo.
It just doesn't feel the same, I'm saying from the experience I had in the last few weeks where I have been playing quite a lot of pickups, and demoman has so much of a more reduced impact. If you average logs you get like a 30% dmg reduction prepatch/pospatch, I would say that's a big fuckin deal. Just earlier today I played a pickup where I thought I was doing good damage across the board, getting kills, etc... and then when I checked the logs, 7k dmg. lol.
It's easy for you to say to "adapt" when it's not your mainclass or you haven't invested 1k hours on it, I would love to see how would you react is they nerfed rockets damage by 30%, because that's about the same treatment the demo got, indirectly through the radius but that's the end result. Also saying you should adapt to a much boring playstyle? It's kinda like saying, "Remember all the things you loved about your mainclass? Forget about that, now you should play like retard and shoot the ground for maximum damage."
Also any nerf to a explosive class is an indirect buff to scouts and we don't need more of those walking 100 dmg meatshots sentries.
I'm not saying it's the end of the world, at least it's not as bad as the last nerf that made 0 sense, but it's still a big deal in terms of damage in the end, and you feel a little powerless at times, you just don't have the same impact in teamfights and pushes. Reducing the clip would have made more sense, and force smarter ammo economy.
[quote=Kaneco][quote=m]
do u play tf2?
do u know/remember what its like to push into demos who can actually aim?
[b]everything u say is so exaggerated its really hard for me to imagine it actually occurring[/b]
if anything chokes feel much easier to push into as heavy classes because the airburst/chipshot stickies that people like duwatna and bdonski love doing dont absolutely suffocate u anymore and give u more room to get through
long-range stickies are still a thing just not the ONLY thing u should be doing on demo
demo had been much more powerful than the other classes for a while and now its not, if players arent shit theyll be able to adapt
[spoiler]i am looking at u unf[/spoiler][/quote]
I actually have quite a few hours on this game, more than 1k on demo.
It just doesn't feel the same, I'm saying from the experience I had in the last few weeks where I have been playing quite a lot of pickups, and demoman has so much of a more reduced impact. If you average logs you get like a 30% dmg reduction prepatch/pospatch, I would say that's a big fuckin deal. Just earlier today I played a pickup where I thought I was doing good damage across the board, getting kills, etc... and then when I checked the logs, [url=http://logs.tf/644778]7k dmg[/url]. lol.
It's easy for you to say to "adapt" when it's not your mainclass or you haven't invested 1k hours on it, I would love to see how would you react is they nerfed rockets damage by 30%, because that's about the same treatment the demo got, indirectly through the radius but that's the end result. Also saying you should adapt to a much boring playstyle? It's kinda like saying, "Remember all the things you loved about your mainclass? Forget about that, now you should play like retard and shoot the ground for maximum damage."
Also any nerf to a explosive class is an indirect buff to scouts and [b]we don't need more of those walking 100 dmg meatshots sentries.[/b]
I'm not saying it's the end of the world, at least it's not as bad as the last nerf that made 0 sense, but it's still a big deal in terms of damage in the end, and you feel a little powerless at times, you just don't have the same impact in teamfights and pushes. Reducing the clip would have made more sense, and force smarter ammo economy.[/quote]
do u play tf2?
do u know/remember what its like to push into demos who can actually aim?
[b]everything u say is so exaggerated its really hard for me to imagine it actually occurring[/b]
if anything chokes feel much easier to push into as heavy classes because the airburst/chipshot stickies that people like duwatna and bdonski love doing dont absolutely suffocate u anymore and give u more room to get through
long-range stickies are still a thing just not the ONLY thing u should be doing on demo
demo had been much more powerful than the other classes for a while and now its not, if players arent shit theyll be able to adapt
[spoiler]i am looking at u unf[/spoiler][/quote]
I actually have quite a few hours on this game, more than 1k on demo.
It just doesn't feel the same, I'm saying from the experience I had in the last few weeks where I have been playing quite a lot of pickups, and demoman has so much of a more reduced impact. If you average logs you get like a 30% dmg reduction prepatch/pospatch, I would say that's a big fuckin deal. Just earlier today I played a pickup where I thought I was doing good damage across the board, getting kills, etc... and then when I checked the logs, [url=http://logs.tf/644778]7k dmg[/url]. lol.
It's easy for you to say to "adapt" when it's not your mainclass or you haven't invested 1k hours on it, I would love to see how would you react is they nerfed rockets damage by 30%, because that's about the same treatment the demo got, indirectly through the radius but that's the end result. Also saying you should adapt to a much boring playstyle? It's kinda like saying, "Remember all the things you loved about your mainclass? Forget about that, now you should play like retard and shoot the ground for maximum damage."
Also any nerf to a explosive class is an indirect buff to scouts and [b]we don't need more of those walking 100 dmg meatshots sentries.[/b]
I'm not saying it's the end of the world, at least it's not as bad as the last nerf that made 0 sense, but it's still a big deal in terms of damage in the end, and you feel a little powerless at times, you just don't have the same impact in teamfights and pushes. Reducing the clip would have made more sense, and force smarter ammo economy.[/quote]
m
demo had been much more powerful than the other classes for a while and now its not, if players arent shit theyll be able to adapt
except Scout is EASILY the best class in the entire game
[quote=m]
demo had been much more powerful than the other classes for a while and now its not, if players arent shit theyll be able to adapt
[/quote]
except Scout is EASILY the best class in the entire game
demo had been much more powerful than the other classes for a while and now its not, if players arent shit theyll be able to adapt
[/quote]
except Scout is EASILY the best class in the entire game
its like every player in this game is a falcon main lol
its like every player in this game is a falcon main lol
Xanm
demo had been much more powerful than the other classes for a while and now its not, if players arent shit theyll be able to adapt
except Scout is EASILY the best class in the entire game
for most players and on most pub maps he's not though, and that's where valve balances. they definitely throw bones to competitive but pub balance is their main interest.
if scout is now that overpowering consider changing the scout limit?
[quote=Xan][quote=m]
demo had been much more powerful than the other classes for a while and now its not, if players arent shit theyll be able to adapt
[/quote]
except Scout is EASILY the best class in the entire game[/quote]
for most players and on most pub maps he's not though, and that's where valve balances. they definitely throw bones to competitive but pub balance is their main interest.
if scout is now that overpowering consider changing the scout limit?
demo had been much more powerful than the other classes for a while and now its not, if players arent shit theyll be able to adapt
[/quote]
except Scout is EASILY the best class in the entire game[/quote]
for most players and on most pub maps he's not though, and that's where valve balances. they definitely throw bones to competitive but pub balance is their main interest.
if scout is now that overpowering consider changing the scout limit?
marmadukeGRYLLSkomorebi Still don't understand why they didn't just change the clip size...
because those first 3 stickies that hit a team walking through choke are the ones that shut down a push
I agree. My point was just that it seems unlikely to me that Valve balanced around anything other than pubs, MVM, or possibly this new mannpower shit, and for all of those a clip reduction makes more sense to me. Idk but if my shitty ass doesn't even really notice the radius reduction when playing against pubbers then it didn't really change what Valve wanted it to.
[quote=marmadukeGRYLLS][quote=komorebi] Still don't understand why they didn't just change the clip size...[/quote]
because those first 3 stickies that hit a team walking through choke are the ones that shut down a push[/quote]
I agree. My point was just that it seems unlikely to me that Valve balanced around anything other than pubs, MVM, or possibly this new mannpower shit, and for all of those a clip reduction makes more sense to me. Idk but if my shitty ass doesn't even really notice the radius reduction when playing against pubbers then it didn't really change what Valve wanted it to.
because those first 3 stickies that hit a team walking through choke are the ones that shut down a push[/quote]
I agree. My point was just that it seems unlikely to me that Valve balanced around anything other than pubs, MVM, or possibly this new mannpower shit, and for all of those a clip reduction makes more sense to me. Idk but if my shitty ass doesn't even really notice the radius reduction when playing against pubbers then it didn't really change what Valve wanted it to.
Xan
except Scout is EASILY the best class in the entire game
scout is the best but he's also relatively easy to shut down, especially in HL/Pubs where valve has most of their eggs set up. The 6s whitelist actively discourages weapons that make scout less viable because 6s actually cares about balance, but for the average player, scout is nearly useless.
also i think most ppl would('ve) called scout 4 demo a good trade so its not really like u can say one class is "best" amongst the top tier of classes
[quote=Xan]
except Scout is EASILY the best class in the entire game[/quote]
scout is the best but he's also relatively easy to shut down, especially in HL/Pubs where valve has most of their eggs set up. The 6s whitelist actively discourages weapons that make scout less viable because 6s actually cares about balance, but for the average player, scout is nearly useless.
also i think most ppl would('ve) called scout 4 demo a good trade so its not really like u can say one class is "best" amongst the top tier of classes
except Scout is EASILY the best class in the entire game[/quote]
scout is the best but he's also relatively easy to shut down, especially in HL/Pubs where valve has most of their eggs set up. The 6s whitelist actively discourages weapons that make scout less viable because 6s actually cares about balance, but for the average player, scout is nearly useless.
also i think most ppl would('ve) called scout 4 demo a good trade so its not really like u can say one class is "best" amongst the top tier of classes
komorebistuff
does it matter what valve's intentions were? the effect of it is more aggressive tf2 and lighter punishment for simply trying to hit W without an uber on you.
Kaneco It just doesn't feel the same, I'm saying from the experience I had in the last few weeks where I have been playing quite a lot of pickups, and demoman has so much of a more reduced impact. If you average logs you get like a 30% dmg reduction prepatch/pospatch, I would say that's a big fuckin deal.
It's easy for you to say to "adapt" when it's not your mainclass or you haven't invested 1k hours on it, I would love to see how would you react is they nerfed rockets damage by 30%, because that's about the same treatment the demo got, indirectly through the radius but that's the end result. Also saying you should adapt to a much boring playstyle? It's kinda like saying, "Remember all the things you loved about your mainclass? Forget about that, now you should play like retard and shoot the ground for maximum damage."
Also any nerf to a explosive class is an indirect buff to scouts and we don't need more of those walking 100 dmg meatshots sentries.
I'm not saying it's the end of the world, at least it's not as bad as the last nerf that made 0 sense, but it's still a big deal in terms of damage in the end, and you feel a little powerless at times, you just don't have the same impact in teamfights and pushes. Reducing the clip would have made more sense, and force smarter ammo economy.
you can't just make up shit like "30% reduced damage" and will it into being factual.
you talking about nerfing rocket damage being the same as the radius nerf is retarded. aim your stickies better, shitty.
you're using scouts being good to argue against valve removing the ability for demos to airdet stickies in the same zip code as enemy players and deal 60+ dmg. solid.
try hitting a pipe during teamfights/pushes, i've been told those things do 100 damage from any range!
i'll say it once more: nerfing clip size doesn't do shit to stop the stickies a demo shoots at a choke from completely shitting on a dry push. oh man he only has 6 in a clip, just weather the storm and then we're good boys! no.
sorry you can't hit 500 dpm by "almost" aiming well anymore.
[quote=komorebi]stuff[/quote]
does it matter what valve's intentions were? the effect of it is more aggressive tf2 and lighter punishment for simply trying to hit W without an uber on you.
[quote=Kaneco] It just doesn't feel the same, I'm saying from the experience I had in the last few weeks where I have been playing quite a lot of pickups, and demoman has so much of a more reduced impact. If you average logs you get like a 30% dmg reduction prepatch/pospatch, I would say that's a big fuckin deal.
It's easy for you to say to "adapt" when it's not your mainclass or you haven't invested 1k hours on it, I would love to see how would you react is they nerfed rockets damage by 30%, because that's about the same treatment the demo got, indirectly through the radius but that's the end result. Also saying you should adapt to a much boring playstyle? It's kinda like saying, "Remember all the things you loved about your mainclass? Forget about that, now you should play like retard and shoot the ground for maximum damage."
Also any nerf to a explosive class is an indirect buff to scouts and we don't need more of those walking 100 dmg meatshots sentries.
I'm not saying it's the end of the world, at least it's not as bad as the last nerf that made 0 sense, but it's still a big deal in terms of damage in the end, and you feel a little powerless at times, you just don't have the same impact in teamfights and pushes. Reducing the clip would have made more sense, and force smarter ammo economy.[/quote]
you can't just make up shit like "30% reduced damage" and will it into being factual.
you talking about nerfing rocket damage being the same as the radius nerf is retarded. aim your stickies better, shitty.
you're using scouts being good to argue against valve removing the ability for demos to airdet stickies in the same zip code as enemy players and deal 60+ dmg. solid.
try hitting a pipe during teamfights/pushes, i've been told those things do 100 damage from any range!
i'll say it once more: nerfing clip size doesn't do shit to stop the stickies a demo shoots at a choke from completely shitting on a dry push. oh man he only has 6 in a clip, just weather the storm and then we're good boys! no.
sorry you can't hit 500 dpm by "almost" aiming well anymore.
does it matter what valve's intentions were? the effect of it is more aggressive tf2 and lighter punishment for simply trying to hit W without an uber on you.
[quote=Kaneco] It just doesn't feel the same, I'm saying from the experience I had in the last few weeks where I have been playing quite a lot of pickups, and demoman has so much of a more reduced impact. If you average logs you get like a 30% dmg reduction prepatch/pospatch, I would say that's a big fuckin deal.
It's easy for you to say to "adapt" when it's not your mainclass or you haven't invested 1k hours on it, I would love to see how would you react is they nerfed rockets damage by 30%, because that's about the same treatment the demo got, indirectly through the radius but that's the end result. Also saying you should adapt to a much boring playstyle? It's kinda like saying, "Remember all the things you loved about your mainclass? Forget about that, now you should play like retard and shoot the ground for maximum damage."
Also any nerf to a explosive class is an indirect buff to scouts and we don't need more of those walking 100 dmg meatshots sentries.
I'm not saying it's the end of the world, at least it's not as bad as the last nerf that made 0 sense, but it's still a big deal in terms of damage in the end, and you feel a little powerless at times, you just don't have the same impact in teamfights and pushes. Reducing the clip would have made more sense, and force smarter ammo economy.[/quote]
you can't just make up shit like "30% reduced damage" and will it into being factual.
you talking about nerfing rocket damage being the same as the radius nerf is retarded. aim your stickies better, shitty.
you're using scouts being good to argue against valve removing the ability for demos to airdet stickies in the same zip code as enemy players and deal 60+ dmg. solid.
try hitting a pipe during teamfights/pushes, i've been told those things do 100 damage from any range!
i'll say it once more: nerfing clip size doesn't do shit to stop the stickies a demo shoots at a choke from completely shitting on a dry push. oh man he only has 6 in a clip, just weather the storm and then we're good boys! no.
sorry you can't hit 500 dpm by "almost" aiming well anymore.
Marmaduke, you'd be surprised at the amount of demos that actually don't manage their clips and find themselves constantly out of stickies. So reducing clip size could, first of all, reduce your power in pubs (which is what volvo wants right) and second of all, force you to manage your ammo more carefully, which is a form of skill.
Other than that i agree with you.
Marmaduke, you'd be surprised at the amount of demos that actually don't manage their clips and find themselves constantly out of stickies. So reducing clip size could, first of all, reduce your power in pubs (which is what volvo wants right) and second of all, force you to manage your ammo more carefully, which is a form of skill.
Other than that i agree with you.
Other than that i agree with you.
As much as I'm still having fun playing demo post-nerf, it's retarded to say "aim your stickies". The best aimed stickies before the patch were the ones placed perfectly between 3 people to splash them all. You can't do that now to anywhere near the same effect no matter how well you aim.
As much as I'm still having fun playing demo post-nerf, it's retarded to say "aim your stickies". The best aimed stickies before the patch were the ones placed perfectly between 3 people to splash them all. You can't do that now to anywhere near the same effect no matter how well you aim.
kaidusAs much as I'm still having fun playing demo post-nerf, it's retarded to say "aim your stickies".
Logic-devoid platitudes / throwaway empty phrases like "aim your stickies" and "wahh I can't destroy everyone" are easy ways to dismiss counterarguments while swaying over emotionally-driven individuals.
Funny thing is that pubbers still think the same exact things as before so nerf is a failure in intent anyway:
*DEAD* Garbage Scrub [mysterymeat3] : fucking sticky spamming faggot
[EON]Agent K.™ : You're a pretty good sticky demo m8
This is what happens when you balance around players that don't try to avoid taking damage...
[quote=kaidus]As much as I'm still having fun playing demo post-nerf, it's retarded to say "aim your stickies".[/quote]
Logic-devoid platitudes / throwaway empty phrases like "aim your stickies" and "wahh I can't destroy everyone" are easy ways to dismiss counterarguments while swaying over emotionally-driven individuals.
Funny thing is that pubbers still think the same exact things as before so nerf is a failure in intent anyway:
[quote]*DEAD* Garbage Scrub [mysterymeat3] : fucking sticky spamming faggot
[EON]Agent K.™ : You're a pretty good sticky demo m8[/quote]
This is what happens when you balance around players that don't try to avoid taking damage...
Logic-devoid platitudes / throwaway empty phrases like "aim your stickies" and "wahh I can't destroy everyone" are easy ways to dismiss counterarguments while swaying over emotionally-driven individuals.
Funny thing is that pubbers still think the same exact things as before so nerf is a failure in intent anyway:
[quote]*DEAD* Garbage Scrub [mysterymeat3] : fucking sticky spamming faggot
[EON]Agent K.™ : You're a pretty good sticky demo m8[/quote]
This is what happens when you balance around players that don't try to avoid taking damage...
I thought I would write a post about the matter. Then I remembered, that'd be a waste of fucking time.
I thought I would write a post about the matter. Then I remembered, that'd be a waste of fucking time.
sevennni put 2 stickies at a non buffed pyros feet and he didnt die
That means you didn't put 2 stickies below his feet, lmao.
[quote=sevennn]i put 2 stickies at a non buffed pyros feet and he didnt die[/quote]
That means you didn't put 2 stickies below his feet, lmao.
That means you didn't put 2 stickies below his feet, lmao.
TaKoCheesesevennni put 2 stickies at a non buffed pyros feet and he didnt dieThat means you didn't put 2 stickies below his feet, lmao.
he never said he detonated the stickies...
[quote=TaKoCheese][quote=sevennn]i put 2 stickies at a non buffed pyros feet and he didnt die[/quote]
That means you didn't put 2 stickies below his feet, lmao.[/quote]
he never said he detonated the stickies...
That means you didn't put 2 stickies below his feet, lmao.[/quote]
he never said he detonated the stickies...
marmadukeGRYLLSkomorebistuffdoes it matter what valve's intentions were? the effect of it is more aggressive tf2 and lighter punishment for simply trying to hit W without an uber on you.
I'm glad it's had a positive impact on 6s, if it has (I'm not in a position to say whether it has or hasn't), but, (call me a pessimist) I'm still worried about the implications of valve fucking with 6s inadvertently through their attempts to balance pubs or MVM. I suppose it's better than them not trying to balance weapons at all but if they keep messing with 6s in a manner that seems almost accidental it's hard to imagine a truly positive future, especially given their recent trend of changing long-standing, even "ancient", parts of the game.
[quote=marmadukeGRYLLS][quote=komorebi]stuff[/quote]
does it matter what valve's intentions were? the effect of it is more aggressive tf2 and lighter punishment for simply trying to hit W without an uber on you.
[/quote]
I'm glad it's had a positive impact on 6s, if it has (I'm not in a position to say whether it has or hasn't), but, (call me a pessimist) I'm still worried about the implications of valve fucking with 6s inadvertently through their attempts to balance pubs or MVM. I suppose it's better than them not trying to balance weapons at all but if they keep messing with 6s in a manner that seems almost accidental it's hard to imagine a truly positive future, especially given their recent trend of changing long-standing, even "ancient", parts of the game.
does it matter what valve's intentions were? the effect of it is more aggressive tf2 and lighter punishment for simply trying to hit W without an uber on you.
[/quote]
I'm glad it's had a positive impact on 6s, if it has (I'm not in a position to say whether it has or hasn't), but, (call me a pessimist) I'm still worried about the implications of valve fucking with 6s inadvertently through their attempts to balance pubs or MVM. I suppose it's better than them not trying to balance weapons at all but if they keep messing with 6s in a manner that seems almost accidental it's hard to imagine a truly positive future, especially given their recent trend of changing long-standing, even "ancient", parts of the game.
I think a big reason demos like myself are hating this nerf so much is because it makes it feel like you have no real role in team fights. Before the nerf the demos role was damage first and foremost, both to soften the bad guys up for your other classes to clean up, and to make space for the team to get in. Now you kind of need your pocket to actually do the damage and you can't make space for your team nearly as well as a jumping soldier. Not to mention your role certainly isn't to clean up on kills like the scouts. So what is your role now? To do a little bit of damage and try not to die. WOOOO that sounds exciting.
With this newest update the only thing demos can do that the pocket can't is traps really. Also holy shit traps are nerfed to hell too. So many of the trap spots I had learned before just don't work now because the radius just doesn't reach as far as it used to.
Demo used to have a really defined niche of being a massive damage dealer but terrible at 1v1 or finishing off weak enemies. Now it feels like his niche is just being better than any of the offclasses.
Maybe I am just bad though iunno.
I think a big reason demos like myself are hating this nerf so much is because it makes it feel like you have no real role in team fights. Before the nerf the demos role was damage first and foremost, both to soften the bad guys up for your other classes to clean up, and to make space for the team to get in. Now you kind of need your pocket to actually do the damage and you can't make space for your team nearly as well as a jumping soldier. Not to mention your role certainly isn't to clean up on kills like the scouts. So what is your role now? To do a little bit of damage and try not to die. WOOOO that sounds exciting.
With this newest update the only thing demos can do that the pocket can't is traps really. Also holy shit traps are nerfed to hell too. So many of the trap spots I had learned before just don't work now because the radius just doesn't reach as far as it used to.
Demo used to have a really defined niche of being a massive damage dealer but terrible at 1v1 or finishing off weak enemies. Now it feels like his niche is just being better than any of the offclasses.
Maybe I am just bad though iunno.
With this newest update the only thing demos can do that the pocket can't is traps really. Also holy shit traps are nerfed to hell too. So many of the trap spots I had learned before just don't work now because the radius just doesn't reach as far as it used to.
Demo used to have a really defined niche of being a massive damage dealer but terrible at 1v1 or finishing off weak enemies. Now it feels like his niche is just being better than any of the offclasses.
Maybe I am just bad though iunno.
Before this nerf, in competitive play, no one really had problems with demoman. There wasn't much big demoman complaint threads at all and we were fine with how the game was(aside from little to no support from Valve). Then Valve releases this nerf(probably to cater the pubbers/SPUFers) and as the demo mains start to defend their class, their are others attacking the class or reasoning about it like "learn 2 aim". I agree that before this nerf, demoman was okay, he did a lot of damage, that seems fine as he has 25 lower health than soldier and can be countered by scouts like usual. After this nerf, I feel that demo is not too bad in a rough shape, but the change has definitely influenced how demo is played now. Maybe it's Valve's intention to see the competitive community try to change the stage of "Dealing a lot of damage and having soldiers/scouts clean up" into "Demoman playing more carefully, tactical, and the reliance of soldiers/scouts to initiate", or some other type of scenario.
I think the nerf to demo could've been handled a bit better, Changing mechanics like the radius can be a bit iffy, maybe just a direct change to damage would've been better, or the splash damage would've been more acceptable approach. But the buff to the nade launcher is definitely a message from Valve saying to start aiming with these and use these more. It's understandable, a slight problem is that you only have 4 nades, and unlike stickies, if you miss you can't just "detonate" them, same goes for rockets, but the way you aim rockets and nades are a bit different in the end. I'm not saying that this is the best option, but maybe having 6 nades in a clip(heck the model shows 6 slots right?) and decreasing the amount of stickies in a clip might be one way that Valve would see that would work. As it is harder to aim pipes than shoot stickies in a pub, the pubbers can deal with it until those people get better at pipe aim and start complaining to Valve again.
In conclusion, the nerf to demo has definitely changed the role of demo, whether this is a good or bad thing has been shown in different perspectives, adapting will have to be the result most likely in order to survive, and we'll have to hope to see if Valve can do different things for demo.
Before this nerf, in competitive play, no one really had problems with demoman. There wasn't much big demoman complaint threads at all and we were fine with how the game was(aside from little to no support from Valve). Then Valve releases this nerf(probably to cater the pubbers/SPUFers) and as the demo mains start to defend their class, their are others attacking the class or reasoning about it like "learn 2 aim". I agree that before this nerf, demoman was okay, he did a lot of damage, that seems fine as he has 25 lower health than soldier and can be countered by scouts like usual. After this nerf, I feel that demo is not too bad in a rough shape, but the change has definitely influenced how demo is played now. Maybe it's Valve's intention to see the competitive community try to change the stage of "Dealing a lot of damage and having soldiers/scouts clean up" into "Demoman playing more carefully, tactical, and the reliance of soldiers/scouts to initiate", or some other type of scenario.
I think the nerf to demo could've been handled a bit better, Changing mechanics like the radius can be a bit iffy, maybe just a direct change to damage would've been better, or the splash damage would've been more acceptable approach. But the buff to the nade launcher is definitely a message from Valve saying to start aiming with these and use these more. It's understandable, a slight problem is that you only have 4 nades, and unlike stickies, if you miss you can't just "detonate" them, same goes for rockets, but the way you aim rockets and nades are a bit different in the end. I'm not saying that this is the best option, but maybe having 6 nades in a clip(heck the model shows 6 slots right?) and decreasing the amount of stickies in a clip might be one way that Valve would see that would work. As it is harder to aim pipes than shoot stickies in a pub, the pubbers can deal with it until those people get better at pipe aim and start complaining to Valve again.
In conclusion, the nerf to demo has definitely changed the role of demo, whether this is a good or bad thing has been shown in different perspectives, adapting will have to be the result most likely in order to survive, and we'll have to hope to see if Valve can do different things for demo.
I think the nerf to demo could've been handled a bit better, Changing mechanics like the radius can be a bit iffy, maybe just a direct change to damage would've been better, or the splash damage would've been more acceptable approach. But the buff to the nade launcher is definitely a message from Valve saying to start aiming with these and use these more. It's understandable, a slight problem is that you only have 4 nades, and unlike stickies, if you miss you can't just "detonate" them, same goes for rockets, but the way you aim rockets and nades are a bit different in the end. I'm not saying that this is the best option, but maybe having 6 nades in a clip(heck the model shows 6 slots right?) and decreasing the amount of stickies in a clip might be one way that Valve would see that would work. As it is harder to aim pipes than shoot stickies in a pub, the pubbers can deal with it until those people get better at pipe aim and start complaining to Valve again.
In conclusion, the nerf to demo has definitely changed the role of demo, whether this is a good or bad thing has been shown in different perspectives, adapting will have to be the result most likely in order to survive, and we'll have to hope to see if Valve can do different things for demo.
MagikarpBefore this nerf, in competitive play, no one really had problems with demoman. There wasn't much big demoman complaint threads at all and we were fine with how the game was(aside from little to no support from Valve). Then Valve releases this nerf(probably to cater the pubbers/SPUFers) and as the demo mains start to defend their class, their are others attacking the class or reasoning about it like "learn 2 aim".
Heh, that's probably one of the funniest things about it. People liked to make "demo is ez m1 m2" jokes before but nobody seemed to consider it a serious issue. Then as soon as the surprise initial nerf came out, suddenly everyone bandwagons with the idea that' the class definitely really needs some kind of change, let's figure out what.'
And through it all a sticky can still one-shot light classes at close range...
[quote=Magikarp]Before this nerf, in competitive play, no one really had problems with demoman. There wasn't much big demoman complaint threads at all and we were fine with how the game was(aside from little to no support from Valve). Then Valve releases this nerf(probably to cater the pubbers/SPUFers) and as the demo mains start to defend their class, their are others attacking the class or reasoning about it like "learn 2 aim".[/quote]
Heh, that's probably one of the funniest things about it. People liked to make "demo is ez m1 m2" jokes before but nobody seemed to consider it a serious issue. Then as soon as the surprise initial nerf came out, suddenly everyone bandwagons with the idea that' the class definitely really needs some kind of change, let's figure out what.'
And through it all a sticky can still one-shot light classes at close range...
Heh, that's probably one of the funniest things about it. People liked to make "demo is ez m1 m2" jokes before but nobody seemed to consider it a serious issue. Then as soon as the surprise initial nerf came out, suddenly everyone bandwagons with the idea that' the class definitely really needs some kind of change, let's figure out what.'
And through it all a sticky can still one-shot light classes at close range...
MessyRecipeAnd through it all a sticky can still one-shot light classes at close range...
Good. Fuck scouts.
Also blame this on SPUF all you want but there was literally one thread saying all the shit like 'demo is so op he deals 140 damage pipes and stickies instakill everything' and pretty much everyone else shat on the OP. They spend a lot more time complaining about the gunslinger, short circuit and random crits than they ever did about stickies.
[quote=MessyRecipe]And through it all a sticky can still one-shot light classes at close range...[/quote]
Good. Fuck scouts.
Also blame this on SPUF all you want but there was literally one thread saying all the shit like 'demo is so op he deals 140 damage pipes and stickies instakill everything' and pretty much everyone else shat on the OP. They spend a lot more time complaining about the gunslinger, short circuit and random crits than they ever did about stickies.
Good. Fuck scouts.
Also blame this on SPUF all you want but there was literally one thread saying all the shit like 'demo is so op he deals 140 damage pipes and stickies instakill everything' and pretty much everyone else shat on the OP. They spend a lot more time complaining about the gunslinger, short circuit and random crits than they ever did about stickies.
bl4nkI thought I would write a post about the matter. Then I remembered, that'd be a waste of fucking time.
blank youre too edgy for me can you drink some more before posting next time
[quote=bl4nk]I thought I would write a post about the matter. Then I remembered, that'd be a waste of fucking time.[/quote]
blank youre too edgy for me can you drink some more before posting next time
blank youre too edgy for me can you drink some more before posting next time
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