If you're going to make a pro version I'd say a really good change would be mirroring the map properly

Despite how much people hate Granary, I don't think we're going to see it leave rotation. I'd love to see you return to koth_waste, though.

hey lets vote out granary boys

There is already a granary pro.

no

If im thinking of the same version you are, they actually made it worse

I think the changes they made were in the right direction. Besides the lighting, that sucked really bad

Also looking at your mid changes, I think the holes in the crates only make soldiers better and add a hiding spot on mid. No scout will use that during an actual fight because they will die super easily.

Also the tires that allow you to get on the lower crate on left just add another route to that crate for scouts (you can jump off the sign on to the crate) and looks like it takes away half the space between the crate and the wall which is already cramped.

the ammopacks are cool but other than that the mid looks sketchy

mid is a super duper disaster

just mirror the silos or something

currently doing that
I should have a version to download by tonight

Don't just tell him it's a disaster because it's a disaster, offer up some actual critisism and tell him what about it isn't going to work, someone is trying to put work into a map everyone loathes (not sure why) and trying to make it better. Help him help you!!

Good luck making the map! I dont really know what should be changed but looking forward to the new version.

I fixed granary

http://puu.sh/gDhOH/82930179f8.png

In all seriousness, it's a jumbled mess of a map so I applaud you for trying to fix it. I hope it helps.

I really appreciate the effort but
"Hey this looks like a great place to put like 50 tires."

Mid is just not aesthetically pleasing atm.

? lol i mean there are tires all over the map aren't there? it doesn't look out of place at all and the map isn't aesthetically pleasing to begin with. obviously i've never tried a middle like this but it doesn't look that bad at all. granary mid isn't even good to begin with. at least tires like that could entice a medic to actually stay in middle to survive instead of running away or getting trapped in a corner

Yeah I totally see the logic behind the placement of the props. It would definitely help out scouts and medics. I'm just suggesting maybe something other than a literal dump of tires, unlike the scattered individual tires throughout the map.

- Raise (or remove) the ceiling of the small choke between mid and 2nd yard.

- Make the spawn "lobby" less deep, so there is less travel time to the resup cabinet.

Maybe:

- Create a bit more room on mid, perhaps by reducing the size of the crates (x, y and z) so there is a bit more room to dodge/fight at the outer edges of the mid, and the height advantage of the crates is reduced a tiny bit.

i really do think you should keep the mid changes you had planned like clock said granary mid could use a different feel

Either add a ramp to approach the top of the crates, or raise balcony how it was, without some way on top of crates sollys are even more powerful.

I'd love to see a completely different mid, even if its completely unbalanced, but at least release it so I could get some guys together for a play test

I feel like regardless of any kind of changes you make, Granary will still suffer from a lot of the same problems it has. The biggest one for me is that it's the most unforgiving map to lose mid on. I don't think you can possibly do anything about that without it being considered a totally different map at that point. You have to be so committed to mid (basically not stuck in the back-left corner or garage/ramp), as you will typically lose to a team who becomes committed if you're not.

If your team isn't totally committed (this typically includes the medic), it's easier to exit the mid and hold yard, but it's much harder to win the mid when you're passively stuck in a corner where all of you take the same damage.

If your team is totally committed, it's much more difficult to exit if things aren't going great (especially the medic, who has to make quite a long run out of mid and out of yard). Basically, it's common to have all six of your teammates die if you lose mid. You might have one or two get out if they are quick about it. Perhaps you might have a 3-5 get out if a very early call is made and everyone is in a decent exit position. Still, it sucks.

Which yeah, if your team is totally committed on any map, it'll be hard for people to get out, but Granary is a map where you cannot sit all the way back and do nothing. You'll get spammed to death and eventually lose to the other team collapsing on you. It doesn't play out that way 100% of the time, but it happens much more on Granary than any other map. The rest of Granary is alright but not that great.

I don't think Granary is a horrible map, but I would say it's the worst in the rotation.

What if you had another doorway smack dab in the middle at mid, so there's 3 major entrances on the ground level at mid.

make a shutter door like ashville

If people don't like the visual design of the tires, it would probably look more in place as a couple stacks instead of a whole pile, that way you can climb it, but it looks more in place.

What would we replace it with tho? I'm not on an esea team, but for both UGC and ESEA it'd be cool to see coalplant or maybe ashville

While I like the idea, a pro version of granary is not very likely to work because it would just further distance the comp community from pubs. Granary is an official map so it needs dev updates, which is bad because it's not perfect like badlands.

There are less custom maps in the rotation this season than in many previous ones. Process, snakewater, and gully were in the competitive map canon long before Valve added them to the game.

It's not like adding a few ammo packs and tires on mid would make granary a completely foreign map. Even lobby players figure out viaduct_pro fairly quickly.

And if you care about the distance the comp community has from pubs there are much bigger issues than requiring four 50 mb map downloads instead of 3.

edit: how do i proofread

You mention that you reduced the spawn timers, I think this should directly help the situation Fragile is talking about.

What are the stock spawn timers?
What are the updated spawn timers?