This isn't just froyo, literally every continent has this problem. NA = Froyo, SA = Monster Gaming, EU = Suave/maincall/whatever you want to call them. Jasmine lost in the latest summer cup but they're still pretty powerful, but before, we all knew IM was literally unstoppable in Australia. heck, probably the only continent without a super team might be asia but none of us know since it's gotten 1% publicity compared to the other continents.

Yes, other competitive games have super teams, but none that are so super that they win almost every season. I mean honestly, epsilon really didn't die, they just got a name change. only 6 people in europe are a fan of that probably.

Suave superteam Kappa

The issue here is the amount of time you put into making LAN vs what you get out of it isn't equal in the slightest bit.
Sure making LAN a few times is fun, but you start to realize that you're losing hundreds of hours of your day and losing money going to every LAN just isn't worth it anymore. At some point in time real life is going to catch up to you and demand you do something better with that time, cause you can't pay the bills by playing TF2

The issue here is the amount of time you put into making LAN vs what you get out of it isn't equal in the slightest bit.

its very clear that to some people, being good at a small niche part of a fairly popular shooter is actually very important and they get a lot out of it. It isn't losing hundreds of hours if you were having fun.

After being in Invite for several seasons and having lots of friends in invite i can confirm that this is an issue that players are faced with.

ofc its an issue

but people are clearly still playing in invite, when open, im, and UGC are all still open to them, and require much less of a commitment, so clearly for some people, it's worth doing for at least some amount of time

Open and IM aren't options if Invite isn't. And having all of tf2 in UGC will kill this game.

I didn't say it wasn't worth doing for an amount of time. I'm bringing up the larger issue of why the competition in Invite has been lacking for a few seasons, and why Froyo is such an issue right now.

"I'm not having fun in invite because playing so much tf2 doesn't appeal to me; however, I would like to continue playing 6s."

if this is the is situation being described, then moving to a lower division where you don't have to play as seriously or as much is perfectly valid. ofc if all the invite players dropped to open or UGC it would kill invite, but that would only happen if no one was having enough fun in invite for it to be worth it

" why Froyo is such an issue right now."

its only an issues if you think that teams that put less energy into the game should beat teams that try to get better (or if you want to watch close games from the #1 and #2 but undermining the idea of competitive play to increase watchability is stupid imo)

Just don't watch the matches with Froyotech if you think it's that big a problem. Invite still had plenty of good matches this season. Not to the level of last season but still good. Assuming most non-LAN teams return next season I'll be looking forward to S19, and way more than I did before the start of this season.

And get called a sandbagging faggot in a lower div or washed up or whatever; you're better off leaving the game and playing CS, League, Dota or some other game.
This isn't saying it won't happen, but i'm not sure why the fuck you quoted me of all people.

Right, because froyo is scrimming SUPER HARD this season and making sure to play 3-4 days a week for a few hours every night.
They're dominate because they have the best or second best on every class. They know their game plan now and react accordingly. Comparatively you see members of eLv, 20b and (occasionally) mad men pugging, getting in practice and trying hard to play their best at all times.

They aren't killing tf2, because thankfully, b4nny is kind of a brand in tf2 (that sounded super lame, i apologize) and he drags people in from other modes. They're making Invite boring as fuck when they're involved, but beyond that, they're just another super team that make their div less exciting.

We need lauren to come back and Yoko Ono the shit out of that team

thanks for your valuable input "eee"

so the super-team in the nba the 2011-2014 Miami Heat killed the nba??? Or the old dynasty of the celtics was bad for the nba??? it made teams adapt and get better, and we've seen this in tf2 before already with b4nny's old team and mix^ too. bad arguement

I love watching Froyotech's matches, it's always enjoyable to watch an amazing team play together. I also love TF2 and don't actively think about it as a dying game. The only reason why people will finally hit the last nail in the coffin is if they keep promoting this negative attitude on the forums, in game, on twitch streams,etc. It gets old tbh, and if you still think playing TF2 will generate you profit consistently, then you're shit out of luck. I don't think anyone in ESEA TF2 is really playing for money, but for the love of the game, the experience they have at lan, and the excitement of playing at higher levels. People who want to make money off video games are moving on to bigger, newer games and there's nothing wrong with that.

BREAKING NEWS:

Cozen signs two-year, $42.1 million contract with Ding Song Daddy.

wish i got payed muti millions to play tf2

I think you're missing his point.

For a very long time, a lot of Invite was mostly about who practiced the most. If you didn't practice, you would likely lose to a team worse than you, just because they put in more hours. It was a chore at times, but you're right, getting to go and hang out with everyone is a lot of fun. I still go to most of the ESEA LANs just to hang out.

Could one of the other three LAN teams beat froyo at this upcoming LAN? Sure, I think it could be a possibility.

Will it happen? I really doubt it, just because the amount of hours needed to catch up to them to maybe beat them can be daunting. I think it's got to a point where there's a lack of motivation. Froyo are established now. I think most teams aren't really willing to care enough to put in the large amount of effort to be on the same level as them. The LAN teams will obvious start practicing closer to LAN, but it's gonna be one hell of a task to give froyo a run for their money this upcoming LAN. There's not enough motivation or incentive to get on their level.

It sucks, but I knew people would feel this way once mix^ died, rando left eLevate, and then Invite decided to not really scrim anymore (at least not nearly as much as Invite used to scrim).

And all of this is leading back to the original point at hand. You could practice out of your mind and put in tons of hours with your team, and you might beat froyo. Hell, you still might get 3rd or 4th. Tagg was saying that it can suck to practice so much just to put on a good show, only to potentially come out negative after the LAN is over.

Also, to address the topic of this thread, I don't necessarily think that froyo will be the death of TF2. However, I think froyo will always be as dominant as they are right now until the end of TF2. Again, just because there's really no motivation or incentive to put in that much work anymore.

if tagg's point is that invite players play too much for the payout to be worth it, then my point is that u can just play a lower div w/ friends and still play tf2, whcih invite players clearly want to do. ur point seemed like saying that u can only play invite if u make it to invite, which is clearly not true. No one is being forced to play invite. If ur invite, u can literally play any division of tf2 (6s at least) that u want. which implies that everyone playing invite wants to be in invite, meaning tagg saying that being in invite isn't worth it seem silly, because clearly at least some people think its worth it
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froyo doesn't need to scrim because all of their players are already at the top because they have shitloads more experience than basically any other active group of players.

thefragile i think has the right idea imo: anyone can beat 4g, but no one really wants to put the time in because its not worth it to put that amount of effort in

putting these ideas together, we see that people are playing invite to play against teams that aren't 4g because they find it very fun, which is consistent with why everyone watches invite matches that aren't against 4g

i cant type sorry

Well, usually if you're playing with friend you're offclassing or doing something along those lines for fun, which you might not be invite on that class. But the issue (was)is that lower divisions (beyond some of IM and Open) really dislike playing against Invite players.
Financially, it'd be like spending 40 hours a week on your hobby, and shelling out money to go to a giant convention for it. Which is actually normal, but whatever.

its not dying, there's just no point looking forward to lan because we know whos gonna win zzz

how to not improve: complain that the top team is too good and do nothing in your power to download an STV demo and watch how they play.

the idea that we "hit more shots than other people" and that's why we win is not the whole truth. obviously DM plays a role in how good a team is, but lower-ranked invite teams thinking they're just as smart or innovative as we are on the fly is ridiculous. the reason mixup was even good in the first place is they were smart players who could adapt to situations, in the same way we can. listening to people from other invite teams saying we win because I run around killing everything is crnigey because lets me know they think they have huge TF2 brains when they make mistake after mistake allowing us to just start steamrolling. also half of DM in real games is situational. i'm pretty sure banny is topdamaging over every other scout in the league. i guess it's because his DM is just the best now, not mine? I dunno it's pretty easy to get better if you put your egos aside and just watch how people play. Half of my scout skill comes from watching pov demos of wltrs and enigma and knowing when I could catch players out of position.

it's really not that hard to get better at the game. not many hours are required if you put the time into scrimming to get better and deathmatching for an hour a day instead of CS for 3. an essay doesn't take long to write if you dedicate your time to writing it, but it can take a whole day if you spend half the time on reddit

Obviously the solution is to move Australia into the middle of the Atlantic ocean so that everyone can play TF2 with decent enough pings. Mixed continent teams can now form to take on froyo

From having watched a lot of Froyo this season, it's *possible* for them to at least lose games on LAN - the problem is that their opposition so far this season haven't been methodical enough. Sure, I have a fetish for methodical play, but that's really all it comes down to. All 3 of the teams going into LAN have struggled to keep up with Froyo and done relatively well at times, but ultimately they fall pray to some lazy mistake and end up getting crushed, and that basically sucks the wind right out of the sails of a team. The same has generally been true for other super teams. I should point out that by rounds for and against S12 was the most competitive season of TF2 we've ever had in NA - but it also had one of the most dominant teams (ultra-Mix^) and the same was true of them. Teams would occasionally give them a game, and then something spectacularly bad would happen to them, and they'd never get any traction back.

The point of playing comp is to see who is best. If you're not interested in participating in that exercise maybe you could take up painting or any other pursuit which so pleases you.

I don't really see the point here. Of course it sucks, but I think people should reevaluate their goals if they want to be happy instead of just complaining. Either you focus on practicing until you win or realize that you'd rather play for the experience. Bitching about froyo just devalues the amount of time and effort it took to get them where they are.

^

the phrase 'super team' irks me so much, all it takes is one caster to say it then its permanently tattooed in every players brain, its not a thing please stop saying it

If only bdonski had the balls to shoot up lan...

I don't think I'll ever understand why Valve doesn't just sell froyo weapon stickers and invite some tf2 teams to dreamhack, esl etc. It's not like it would even take much effort and it would probably pay for itself even if you ignore the fact that tf2 still makes shit tons of money.

I refuse to believe all these invite players exclusively play comp tf2 for lan cash.

Do you actually just go there so you can get money? I mean, surely you didn't put in all these hours of practice in just so you could get a check from esea.
If going to lan hurts your wallet so much why don't you just not go?
Do your teammates force you to come or something? Like, what's stopping you from just chilling at home?

If going to lan is such a terrible experience unless you win you really need to rethink your life priorities.
Everything I've seen come out of the esea lans and every tf2 lan in general really, is a bunch of people getting together and having a good time.

If it pains you so much to go and do that just fucking stay home instead of crying about it on the internet like it was just plain awful. I'm sure you guys enjoyed going.