You don't know that. All frustrations aside of wanting this game to be different. I'm sure valve cares a lot about this game, they just see how they want the game in a different way. I also think your forgetting that TF2 is more than just 6's when you stated that comment about the short circuit. You might not see it's value but I'm sure a bunch of the pubbers that enjoy that weapon(which pubbers make up most of this game technically) which is why there are a lot of other gimmicky weapons. Play this game because you enjoy it, and don't worry about the numbers this game gets.

Mr Harvard giving genuinely good advice.

Part of the reason why TF2 is thought of the way it it is because lots of people spread the idea that is is just a game where you can stand around with your dick in your hand, hence all the pubbers you see doing that deck chair shit and crouch walking around the map.

If the community as a whole had a better sense of how to play the game, or even wanted to play the game, we would be golden.

Just enjoy what we have got and have fun.

u guys are jumping to conclusions

wait n c :)

I feel like this would help grow the community a hell of a lot but also kill it in the long run, we will end up having people who have never even topfragged a valve server before filling up all the leagues because they think theyre good enough. Because of games like cs and dota people think that competitive is the only thing in the game and they won't bother to actually learn anything before just trying competitive. Because tf2's community is small by comparison and not officially supported you make sure youre actually good enough before trying to enter in so the average skill is higher.

TL:DR if this is added new comp meta will be 3 w m1 gibus pyros, 1 medic and his pocket heavy and a kunai spy

Someone should email Eric Smith asking to add a button linking to playcomp.tf though. They've been more receptive to HL than 6es in the past and I can understand why they wouldn't want to support a company like ESEA but that site just states facts and info about the two gamemodes and covers all the leagues.
The only reason Valve has to not support comp tf2 in a very passive way would be if they were going to release their own form of competitive gamemode using their own meta. If that's the case I think they will need to work with the current leagues anyway as they'd be splitting their own community pretty hard from the start if they didn't.

HNNNNG, not this argument again. Stop pandering towards their flawed reasoning for not supporting tf2.
Our version of competitive tf2 doesn't have to be pretty far removed from everyone's idea of tf2, they can oh so easily make it the idea of tf2. TF2 at its core is a very deep and complex team based arena shooter, albeit with some minor adjustments and tweaking. Adjustments and tweaking we, the community, have already gone and established for them, classlimits, weapon bans, class lineup, and etc.. What we have made is essentially a promod of tf2
What is there to stop valve from taking this promod, that we've gone and established for them, and making it theirs. What is there to stop them from simply implementing 6v6/promod into their game, be it a gamemode with or without matchmaking. You have a massive community already doing all the work for you and all it needs to grow is just some basic acknowledgement and support. What if you could simply select 6v6 in the gamemode menu for competitive maps, just like you can select competitive for the competitive maps in CS:GO.

Although I do understand that they have no need to do this since TF2 as it is is already raking in enough money for them and implementing competitive could be a risk that could possibly not end up in any profit and is not really viable according to the massive timespent:income efficiency of their current business module.

Because Valve will literally ever support a mode that disallows certain items in their game.

It's not the meta, it's the whitelist. Supporting Arena: Respawn has a chance because of the lack of whitelist. An unmodified HL would be possible if they altered a few weapons. Current 6s just isn't feasible to be supported by Valve, because it bans SO MANY weapons that the casual player uses. By supporting gamemodes that ban 2/3 of the weapons in the game, Valve would basically be admitting they were wrong on so many accounts, and I just don't see that happening.

It's a fair point but it's not like valve have tried in terms of weapon balance in an attempt to change the meta whatsoever. People seem to act like it's the player's fault in some way that it is the way it is. Valve can't just add weapons which are straight up broken or gimmicks and then expect them to evolve the 6es meta in some way. There are only a few weapons in 6es that are disallowed everywhere and aren't straight up broken which are weapons which the best counter to in 6es is to use the same weapon which actually kills weapon diversity and is often less interesting than watching both classes run the stock. It's also not reasonable for them to expect no whitelist whatsoever when games like dota have bans for heros that are overpowered.

In addition to this, valve and the playerbase places far too much value on what unlocks can do when a huge number of them don't change the way you play the game at all. Valve tries to balance some classes through adding unlocks which make them better, which doesn't really address the problem with the class and also often makes an already specialist class better at its specialist role without making it better at generally. They then don't seem to understand why certain classes are only run as offclasses and not all the time when they don't add weapons which make the class better in any situation outside of what they'd already be doing. See:Reserve Shooter, Rescue Ranger.

I'm sorry but they can't have their cake and eat it too with respect to the meta, if they want to see it change they need to give us something to work with. If their idea of a competitive mode is 12v12 with no whitelist (as a lot of people tend to say their testing mode and what they "balance" around is) then they really have no idea what they're doing.

Considering all of this is on a HUD level you could probably bother the popular HUD devs to add a little thing about teamfortress.tv or playcomp.tf on the home screen since I had a custom HUD long before I knew anything about competitive. I'm not sure if external links will work on a HUD level but maybe something to pop it open in the steam browser?

Why would Valve support a gamemode that eliminates most of the weapons they make money selling, and alienates players of 5 out of 9 classes? If Valve support any existing competitive mode it will be highlander.

Oh go die in a fire please, why does everyone always twist this into 6v6 vs Highlander.
You're completely missing my point. Why can't these two things coexist?
And besides the point do you really think that weapon sales account for a worthy margin of their revenue? The only reason Highlander doesn't alienate 5 out of 9 classes is because you're forced to use them, 4 of the classes are practically useless and highly reward lack of skill. Go whine about your slightly co-ordinated pub somewhere else.

Back to my point, why should the fact that 6v6 doesn't use all the weapons or all the classes hold anything back. That has nothing to do with it, it is an established "promod" version of their casual pub format and what's stopping them from implementing it as the competitive format of the game. Take the already insanely popular and deep game within your game and make it theirs.

They wouldn't have to admit they're wrong because they're not. Lots of these weapons are very fun to use in public games, public sit&go servers meant for nothing more than casual play. What I'm trying to say is they could take the competitive format and implement it as the competitive format, without the need of the two sides of clashing for some reason.

why should everyone have to change their idea of tf2?

if ur curious about how the average person views tf2, check out /r/tf2

people there are fucking terrible at video games, and even though they don't understand tf2, they love it to death. They'll write the biggest fucking nerd essays on why the tomislav is a good weapon and the 6s community is evil for not running it. u dont get shit like this in csgo, no one is championing the death of 5s bcuz ppl aren't running mac10. If u want to make 6s popular, make 6s appeal to the populous or something. like make a pub friendly 6s league where people are free to run anything and let them figure out why u shouldnt have a full time spy. ofc no one is going to do that, least of all valve, but the huge divide in pub/comp play has more to do with most ppl not having a clue why anything is the way it is, moreso than ppl just accepting at face value that engineer is a shit class most of the time

" By supporting gamemodes that ban 2/3 of the weapons in the game,"

u could unban all but like 5 weapons and have 6s work, it'd just be less fun than it is now. u could unban every weapon if they nerfed the GRU, wrangler, and whip, but valve doesn't listen to community feedback very well or something bcuz ppl have been asking for nerfs to this shit for years now and they buffed the LnL iu guess

Nope, that is something that has already been discussed and we can't simply add a clickable link, all we could do is make the text for it and people type in the link themselves to go find it. I dont think that would help though as people who wouldn't know about it would probably assume comp to be just like pubs with all these weird classes running around. The only thing that would be actually beneficial is if valve implemented some sort of competitive match watching system like they have in cs so people could see that its not actually a joke and its very organized and serious.

I don't understand why you people can't wrap your head around anything else than "they won't support it because its different". Why does it matter that its different?
Read what I posted above.

Remember the initial Sticky Launcher nerf? From what I remember, a substantial amount of Tf2 players spammed Tf2 team, complaining and demanding to revert the change, so in the end they listened to them, all you need to do is force like 50%+ of Tf2 Reddit to spam Valve with this Button request and they will probably end up doing so.

But the downside of Reddit is that they they dislike Competitive, not all of them of course, but whenever I see anything related to Comp. Tf2 on Reddit, it always has less than 20 comments. You have to approach Reddit differently with competitive stuff, as of right now, Muselk, unofficially, holds the title of "King of /r/tf2", why? Because Reddit obviously loves and admires him, I've seen a lot of posts about him and they are always popular. So what your best choice would be somehow asking him personally to advertise Comp. Tf2, make a separate video(s) about it and other things, maybe make a caster out of him?

Yes, this sounds quite bad and I know that Muselk is not the most popular person among the Comp. players, but if you want competitive to grow, you'll have to deal with it or just do nothing and hope that it goes up by itself. Basically if you want that advertisement from Valve, you need to take control of Reddit, via the most popular Player - Muselk, he'll influence his viewers, people will start talking more about competitive, then someone makes a suggestion about this button on /r/tf2, everyone spams Tf2 Team, you get your Button due to the demand.

tl;dr

As was mentioned, Tf2 team listens to Pubbers, /r/tf2 = Pubber community, dominate and control it, and competitive will grow, Valve usually finds Map/General bugs thanks to the /r/tf2, because random players showcase those bugs and Tf2 team has to fix them, if Tf2 reddit shows a huge demand for Comp. Tf2, then they might end up supporting it. Just to be clear, I am not in any way, shape or form Muselk's fanboy and I am just a lurker on Tf2 reddit. Peace.

i didn't even know FoF even had a competitive scene

but yeah, im sure valve wouldn't do that because its not a comp. based game

idk if ur retarded or so solipsistic that u cant imagine the fact that valve doesnt give a shit about u but u really need to understand the perspective of what ur working with

valve wont change anything unless it has a large widespread community support. the lnl has easily more than half of the population wishing it was nerfed, but they haven't acted yet. it doesnt matter how much 6s is good and fun if only 5% of the playerbase plays it

u need to make everyone everywhere consider it the core ideal of tf2

This has been discussed to death and you're not actually addressing anyone else's arguments you're just repeating your own. Your post #41 takes several things as fact when they're in fact quite debatable:

Their revenue comes from the public and casual side of the game. MVM tickets, keys, hats, etc. That's their revenue. The F2P business model relies on selling what the playerbase wants. Have you been to r/tf2? Have you been to the steam users' forums? The public playerbase does not want to play our version of the game. Therefore, the business logic would follow, Valve won't support it. If your entire argument is just "why not?", then:

• Why don't they support jumping?
  
• Why don't they support trade servers?
  
• Why don't they add Saxton Hale and Prophunt as official gamemodes?

All of those suggestions except for jumping would affect a larger playerbase, no? It seems fairly obvious that Valve does not want to support these community-created things: they have their own vision of the game, whatever that might be. Hopefully their vision is closer to ours than we think - we're not sure because they're not a very communicative company about game direction, and certainly aren't open about the direction of TF2. However, there is no reason I can think of for them to directly support competitive over the other formats above, and their lack of action speaks pretty strongly towards their apathy in that regard.

lol. As much as I wish 6v6, or even competitive TF2 in general, was "insanely popular", it isn't. Forget the "insanely", neither is even "popular". We are a tiny subset of a small community (people with large amounts of TF2 hours: traders/jumpers/serious pubbers) in a game that is taken casually. When do TF2 player numbers spike? Big updates, and halloween. There is a large playerbase that don't really feel any drive to play TF2 until prompted by an update or something, and then they pick it up, play a few hours, and move on. Or they try it, don't like it, never pick it back up. Also, 6v6 isn't unified, so I wouldn't agree it's established: EU, NA, SA, AUS, and Asia play with differing rule-sets including basic win conditions, weapon bans, anti-cheat, betting rules, etc. Furthermore, it's naive to expect that even if it were, Valve would want to expand that in TF2. Valve as a company has a policy where employees work on what they wish to. They didn't design TF2 as a competitive game, not many people currently work on it, and they've been very successful at the casual level. You fail to address the most basic counter-argument. Why should Valve care? The only reason WE care is love of the game. There isn't a single objective bystander, ie a non-competitive player with experience in esports, who has publicly expressed any sort of interest or belief in the growth of competitive TF2. Other competitive games, for the most part, aren't interested. We haven't drawn in that many of the old TFC crowd, or Quakeworld, or Natural Selection, or whatever. We haven't drawn in huge numbers of the public playerbase. We all agree that our format is fun, but maybe it's time we accept that others don't share our sentiments. Just enjoy the game, and keep doing what we're doing. Maybe we'll get something more, maybe not. Either way, it's been a hell of a run for a community-driven scene.

if bad players start playing, everyone here effectively becomes better. imagine every IM player playing Premier, every open player playing Main, and IM and Open being filled with worse players. Obviously the skill levels would settle and SYOPS would go back to Open again, but more players does nothing but increase skill cap, no matter their skill.

but because they play competitive they will actually learn something...

but this would be different if the button was added...

Because it's TF2
Mechanically 6es is one of the few fps games with quake style dm (although obviously its a lot slower) that doesn't follow quake's gamemodes and weapons/armour pickup system really closely. 5cp isn't something that's in other games, nor is uber advantage. It's something pretty new and I think with the potential for weapons being changed it can have a shifting meta in the same way that mobas do which is something that would also attract a different playerbase.
Unfortunately for Valve to switch their focus to it to a degree they'd make something actually sucessful, then they'd have to stop focusing on other stuff in the game and other games that they currently make (as tf2 is pretty low maintenance for them right now) lose out on a huge amount of potential money for a risk which might not work out.
If tf2 didn't exist and Valve made 6es as a game designed for that format from the offset right now it could probably be very successful in the current climate as it does do some pretty different things.

However, Valve doesn't need to turn the game into anything big as far as this thread goes, all this is asking for is a button as a piece of goodwill. It's basically like Valve saying hey this community has done a ton to make this cool promod go check it out. That doesn't sound particularly unreasonable to me, especially as it's not going to lose them any money as it's not actually competing with anything valve wants to do.
Unless Valve wants to make their own competitive mode there's not any point in them actively snubbing the community of it, and tbh I don't think they're deliberately doing that. They're just a company that's famously shit at communicating with its customers.

There's no way Valve are supporting two competitive gamemodes, getting them to support one would be hard enough.

Not just sales of the base weapon from the MCS, but stranges, australiums, killstreak kits etc.

You can cry all you like but a hell of a lot of tf2 players like playing those 'useless' classes and good luck getting them to watch/play a gamemode that cuts them out altogether.

I'm pretty sure Steven has a much bigger and more passionate audience than Muselk, and the comp community thinks much more highly of him than Muselk.

what I said doesnt apply here
im a sorry idiot

star plays a lot less tf2 than muselk now

muselk is also VERY active on /r/tf2

idk dude

muselk claims he played 6s once, but he dislikes 6s tho*

*dislikes the current meta and its community, he talked about it here before i started being a belligerent asshole because yeah

If Steven brought attention to the issue, and he's definitely involved with the issue because he's played competitively many times since like 2009, people would listen. They fucking loved it when he ran Targe in 6s, I'm sure they'd listen.

they loved it because

1.) it was star
2.) he wasn't playing 6s

most people hate 6s because of either their preconceived notions of how 6s works (banned classes, extreme tryharding) or because they dislike taking video games seriously. If you want people to actually have people interested in 6s, you do need dumb vids like that, but you also need someone with shitloads of exposure making vids having shitloads of fun playing seriously

so its another one of these threads

muselk played div 4 it hardly counts

I actually talked to the guy about this on seanbud's streamchat one time. He did in fact make some more serious 6es videos, but he said it wasn't really viable for him to make them as they got something like 10x less views than the average vid he made.

Valve isnt even touch with comp csgo with that awp nerf, i doubt they would even know this site exists. Except a select few ofc