I understand they want all their classes to be viable but the problem is that all the classes are viable, they are just viable only in their own particular little niche. Heavies, engies, and pyros are extremely viable in defending against last pushes, and snipers and spies are good at creating picks in times of desperation. They just completely suck at moving fast enough to capitalize off of 10 second death timers, or people being weak when the medigun heals at 24hps. And that's perfectly fine.

Depends on the map and unlocks. I feel valve should direct more attention to accumulating weapon ban stats through the system

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/013/604/thisisbait.png

id be fine with playing a different game mode if its more fun than 6v6

but i dont think thats gonna happen

It's obviously going to be a little rough around the edges when it comes out, weapons and ranks and classes will probably all need adjusting over time so don't call it a failure just because it isn't an instant success. Look at other games such as dota and csgo that get much more frequent balance updates compared to tf2, a game where a weapon is likely to never have been touched by a balance after release. This is because valve have had no reliable data to use for balancing. This will change with matchmaking because it will be a place for them to actually get some data to make informed balancing decisions.

I just feel like 6s flows so beautifully, and it's incredibly competitively viable. So what if it doesn't use all the content in the game? So what if there are items or classes or maps in the game that aren't played at the top level? I can't think of a single fighting game at EVO in which all the characters are equally balanced and are all played. Likewise with certain attacks, they just aren't particularly good for one reason or another. It's okay to take the most optimized, most skill-based, and most "fair" parts of the game and compile them into a competitive format.

And the best part if they don't even have to come up with anything new! It already exsists, it's already optimized, they just gotta throw it in the game and bam, we're esports

I still don't understand why valve thought the short circuit buff needed to be that extreme

This community has always been abysmal when accepting change or introducing change (not saying the community as the whole is bad, this is one of the best online communities out there). For match making to work, valve is gonna make it so it appeals to a mass audience, not just our competitive circle. There would be no point for them to add a competitive setting into the game if it wasn't going to bring in more players, everyone is just going to have to be ready for the real possibility of change in our competitive game mode if you want this to work. Of course there is the possibility that it will be the way it is currently and that would be totally ideal but not likely.

davidthewin makes a valid point, they had no data to use for their buffs/nerfs. Valve is a company that listens to it's consumers. they stopped that whole paid mod thing after just a few days. they got the majority of their input from the community from the steamcommunity forums, and we all know what goes on over there....

I think it's fair to say Demarini ruined the thread

nah i wouldn't say that, dont give him the satisfaction

Somehow I feel Demarini is the older brother of 9v9enthusiast

Its hard to make an unlock as overpowered as the wrangler

I can tell you one thing. They dont listen to spuf since they just parrot everything they read here.

Things we don't know for certain.

1. Exactly what Valve will do.
2. Why people like playing pyro.

Things we know for certain right now:

1. Our questions will be answered soon.
2. Pyro sucks

Stop with the pyro hate now, it's not going to get us anywhere.

95k uniques
261k pageviews

was getting these alerts all day:

http://i.imgur.com/feYQBpf.png

holy shit

Why are you still here?

What are the traffic numbers normally?

If tomorrow's stream hits anywhere around 10k or more viewers I will piss myself

Doubt it, don't think word will spread that much but it's going to be big. I will even stay up for it!

HYPED

Honestly, I think 6v6 makes the most sense because it fits better with the size of teams used in other eSports. 9v9 is going to be a pain to do in match making. Nothing wrong with HL, it is fun, but logistically it is a nightmare.

As for 6s, I expect that there will be far fewer limitations in whatever valve makes. And I don't think that is an issue, so long as valve is also actively working to balance weapons. What makes the most sense, to me, is limits on a handful of classes - such as 1 medic, 1 demo, maybe 1 heavy (but I imagine that more than 1 heavy would have some fairly serious drawbacks), and probably 2 of anything else. That is what 6s is right now. People could run full time snipers and pyros, or whatever else they wanted. They don't because after years of playing this format we've discovered that what matters most is mobility and burst/splash damage.

There is a meta in games like LoL and DotA, not because the players are forced to play that way, but because the players have discovered that that way of playing is the most effective. And it is still possible for them to play something different and unexpected. And that makes it fun to watch, fun to play, and appealing for sponsors to support.

If 6v6 with 2 scouts, 2 soldiers, 1 medic, and 1 demo is THE most competitive version of this game then trust that that is what the meta will gravitate towards - people will want to win after all, and if that works best they will make use of it. And if it isn't the most competitive version of this game then expect something different.

MOBAs and CS were designed for 5v5. TF2 is designed for 12v12. obviously 6v6 works best for competitive, but 9v9 might make more sense to valve/pubbers, especially with every class available.

Tf2 was designed for 8v8 actually, but I believe that unlocks were balanced for 12v12 since that proved more popular

yeah thats what i was referring to. wasnt this change because they originally only planned for 16-slot servers, but then ended up with 24-slot?

A matchmaking update and a payday where my hours weren't cut. This Friday is gonna be gnarly as fuck. We have to do what we can to make sure MM isn't a bust.

6v6 has all classes available too 8)

That was my point.

hahahahhhahahahaahahahaha