flameyeah youre right, we should play i55 on the patch from 3 weeks ago, everyone revert your updates.
Are you suggesting UGC shouldn't do something simply because a different organization is in a different situation?
UGC keeping things the status quo until the end of the season hurts no one. Right now, they've listened to the posts on their forums, including their Plat Council forum, and are playing the safe game. If Valve changes their mind about the Medigun changes or something else unexpected happens with it, then no matches will have been ruined.
Can you really fault an organization for listening to what the majority of its playerbase wants? What's more, no one in UGC is saying this game mechanic needs to be banned forever; everyone just wants the season finished before addressing it further.
Seagull
I don't think there's a way to protect the season's integrity when they made sweeping balances changes to a ton of weapons that are still allowed. That ship has sailed, unless UGC intends on utilizing server-side plugins to revert the balance changes.
On another note, UGC needs to start addressing how they intend to handle future balance patches which may influence the gameplay even more than this patch did, as well as how they intend to handle the future matchmaking update. I don't see how leagues expect to stay in their bubbles forever.
I think UGC expects small changes throughout a season, but what they're trying to do is mitigate the impact of the unanticipated larger changes. With their one added rule about the Mediguns and their three weapon bans, they'll have done what they could to keep the end of the season from not being too different than the start of it.
You're absolutely right in that they would do well to build in some contingency plans for future big updates, given that matchmaking is on the horizon. It's understandable that they were caught a bit off guard by it since TF2 has rarely seen updates like this in recent history, but now that they know what to expect they should work on being better prepared.
[quote=flame]yeah youre right, we should play i55 on the patch from 3 weeks ago, everyone revert your updates.[/quote]
Are you suggesting UGC shouldn't do something simply because a different organization is in a different situation?
UGC keeping things the status quo until the end of the season hurts no one. Right now, they've listened to the posts on their forums, including their Plat Council forum, and are playing the safe game. If Valve changes their mind about the Medigun changes or something else unexpected happens with it, then no matches will have been ruined.
Can you really fault an organization for listening to what the majority of its playerbase wants? What's more, no one in UGC is saying this game mechanic needs to be banned forever; everyone just wants the season finished before addressing it further.
[quote=Seagull]
I don't think there's a way to protect the season's integrity when they made sweeping balances changes to a ton of weapons that are still allowed. That ship has sailed, unless UGC intends on utilizing server-side plugins to revert the balance changes.
On another note, UGC needs to start addressing how they intend to handle future balance patches which may influence the gameplay even more than this patch did, as well as how they intend to handle the future matchmaking update. I don't see how leagues expect to stay in their bubbles forever.[/quote]
I think UGC expects small changes throughout a season, but what they're trying to do is mitigate the impact of the unanticipated larger changes. With their one added rule about the Mediguns and their three weapon bans, they'll have done what they could to keep the end of the season from not being too different than the start of it.
You're absolutely right in that they would do well to build in some contingency plans for future big updates, given that matchmaking is on the horizon. It's understandable that they were caught a bit off guard by it since TF2 has rarely seen updates like this in recent history, but now that they know what to expect they should work on being better prepared.
In all seriousness, if Valve is reading this, then at least realize that picking up your own medi-gun after dying as a medic makes the game incredibly broken. You are literally not punished for dying as a medic if that medi-gun is just laying there. This won't make spectating the game easier or more interesting if this mechanic confuses it's own players. I assumed this was added to make the meta way more interesting, but it's really un-fair if a team is never "punished" if a medic can pick up his own uber.
In all seriousness, if Valve is reading this, then at least realize that picking up your own medi-gun after dying as a medic makes the game incredibly broken. You are literally not punished for dying as a medic if that medi-gun is just laying there. This won't make spectating the game easier or more interesting if this mechanic confuses [i]it's own players[/i]. I assumed this was added to make the meta way more interesting, but it's really un-fair if a team is never "punished" if a medic can pick up his own uber.
we should recognize and give credit to how this competitive scene has sustained itself almost exclusively because of it's community by making and keeping an interesting game format with it's own rules, almost never relying on valve.
however, valve is now looking into helping our competitive scene to grow by making changes that should benefit everyone. even if you disagree with them, they're open to dialog and opinions, just tell them.
there's no reason to keep banning everything that valve is doing for "the sake of the game", they're the first ones to be interested in it.
we should recognize and give credit to how this competitive scene has sustained itself almost exclusively because of it's community by making and keeping an interesting game format with it's own rules, almost never relying on valve.
however, valve is now looking into helping [i]our[/i] competitive scene to grow by making changes that should benefit everyone. even if you disagree with them, they're open to dialog and opinions, just tell them.
there's no reason to keep banning everything that valve is doing for "the sake of the game", they're the first ones to be interested in it.
I think it's pretty obvious that the uber pickup mechanic is a method to increase the viability of pick classes in a smaller player size environment, like 6s. Makes perfect sense when you think about it that way, but it's lacking a few touches to make it a good mechanic. I 100% believe that this will not be the final result.
I think it's pretty obvious that the uber pickup mechanic is a method to increase the viability of pick classes in a smaller player size environment, like 6s. Makes perfect sense when you think about it that way, but it's lacking a few touches to make it a good mechanic. I 100% believe that this will not be the final result.
CheesyMacgyverI like that things are being changed it sucks that some matches might be unpredictable with such changes happening but valve is looking forward and I think we have to as well because if we want this game to be alive Valve are the ones to give that to us so we cant just ban everything they do think about the big picture
my suggestion for mediguns and weapon drops
weapons at least mediguns need to despawn after 10 seconds I really dont think its fair to spawn and pick up your own old medigun
maybe the longer the medigun stays on the ground the less uber it retains say a medic drops and the weapon lays on the ground for 5 seconds it will have drained 50% of its uber then 7 seconds of laying it will be down to 30% 9 seconds 10% and then it despawns at 10 second mark
that way if you go really fast which is dangerous if the enemy team can adapt and spam their own dead medigun to keep you away you can be rewarded with high % but you cant go around picking up 90% all the time
this is actually a really good idea imo. I wish we had a thread where we KNOW valve will be looking/getting information from as that we can have discussions there and such rather than some random thread that may never be seen.
[quote=CheesyMacgyver]I like that things are being changed it sucks that some matches might be unpredictable with such changes happening but valve is looking forward and I think we have to as well because if we want this game to be alive Valve are the ones to give that to us so we cant just ban everything they do think about the big picture
my suggestion for mediguns and weapon drops
weapons at least mediguns need to despawn after 10 seconds I really dont think its fair to spawn and pick up your own old medigun
maybe the longer the medigun stays on the ground the less uber it retains say a medic drops and the weapon lays on the ground for 5 seconds it will have drained 50% of its uber then 7 seconds of laying it will be down to 30% 9 seconds 10% and then it despawns at 10 second mark
that way if you go really fast which is dangerous if the enemy team can adapt and spam their own dead medigun to keep you away you can be rewarded with high % but you cant go around picking up 90% all the time[/quote]
this is actually a really good idea imo. I wish we had a thread where we KNOW valve will be looking/getting information from as that we can have discussions there and such rather than some random thread that may never be seen.
SeagullDigresserIt's midseason for UGC, so it makes perfect sense. Why take the chance of ruining the rest of the season with an untested mechanic?
Next UGC season is just a few months away, so there will be time for patches, testing, discussion, and debate before then. UGC polls their community between seasons now to determine what the players want; odds are this change and the questionable weapons will end up there and UGC will adjust for next season according to what people want to see.
I don't think there's a way to protect the season's integrity when they made sweeping balances changes to a ton of weapons that are still allowed. That ship has sailed, unless UGC intends on utilizing server-side plugins to revert the balance changes.
On another note, UGC needs to start addressing how they intend to handle future balance patches which may influence the gameplay even more than this patch did, as well as how they intend to handle the future matchmaking update. I don't see how leagues expect to stay in their bubbles forever.
I appreciate the well thought-out input. The sweeping balance changes were mostly made to bring underpowered sidegrades back into relevance, such as Tomislav, Natascha, Brass Beast, Detonator, Scorch Shot, Liberty Launcher, and the Jag. The community as a whole has tested all of these changes, and over a couple scrim nights, it has been decided that only a few of the weapons were actually overpowered or otherwise hurt the meta as we've been playing: Air Strike, Dalakohs Bar, and Sydney Sleeper.
After Valve fixes all these bugs they've introduced and weapon balance is finalized, the more permanent decision on the whitelist will be decided during the offseason.
The decision to ban the medigun pickups was pretty simple: pretty much everyone who has actually played with this system thought it wasn't fun. We're not convinced that this system is final for TF2, and we hope to have a functioning, non-cheat cvar for controlling this in the future.
The handling of future balance patches is kind of a semantic argument, but the medigun pickup change is more of a new feature than a balance change, and new features are something we don't expect to see very often.
I'd write a more complete post but I'm shutting off my computer because of a incoming storm and probable power outage.
[quote=Seagull][quote=Digresser]It's midseason for UGC, so it makes perfect sense. Why take the chance of ruining the rest of the season with an untested mechanic?
Next UGC season is just a few months away, so there will be time for patches, testing, discussion, and debate before then. UGC polls their community between seasons now to determine what the players want; odds are this change and the questionable weapons will end up there and UGC will adjust for next season according to what people want to see.[/quote]
I don't think there's a way to protect the season's integrity when they made sweeping balances changes to a ton of weapons that are still allowed. That ship has sailed, unless UGC intends on utilizing server-side plugins to revert the balance changes.
On another note, UGC needs to start addressing how they intend to handle future balance patches which may influence the gameplay even more than this patch did, as well as how they intend to handle the future matchmaking update. I don't see how leagues expect to stay in their bubbles forever.[/quote]
I appreciate the well thought-out input. The sweeping balance changes were mostly made to bring underpowered sidegrades back into relevance, such as Tomislav, Natascha, Brass Beast, Detonator, Scorch Shot, Liberty Launcher, and the Jag. The community as a whole has tested all of these changes, and over a couple scrim nights, it has been decided that only a few of the weapons were actually overpowered or otherwise hurt the meta as we've been playing: Air Strike, Dalakohs Bar, and Sydney Sleeper.
After Valve fixes all these bugs they've introduced and weapon balance is finalized, the more permanent decision on the whitelist will be decided during the offseason.
The decision to ban the medigun pickups was pretty simple: pretty much everyone who has actually played with this system thought it wasn't fun. We're not convinced that this system is final for TF2, and we hope to have a functioning, non-cheat cvar for controlling this in the future.
The handling of future balance patches is kind of a semantic argument, but the medigun pickup change is more of a new feature than a balance change, and new features are something we don't expect to see very often.
I'd write a more complete post but I'm shutting off my computer because of a incoming storm and probable power outage.
flame, are you suffering from "old-as-shit meta syndrome"? come on man. change is happening and we have the ability to deal with it as we see fit. no worries.
flame, are you suffering from "old-as-shit meta syndrome"? come on man. change is happening and we have the ability to deal with it as we see fit. no worries.
kirbyflame, are you suffering from "old-as-shit meta syndrome"? come on man. change is happening and we have the ability to deal with it as we see fit. no worries.
i'm pretty sure flame is arguing to allow the mechanic to be used, not that it should be banned.
[quote=kirby]flame, are you suffering from "old-as-shit meta syndrome"? come on man. change is happening and we have the ability to deal with it as we see fit. no worries.[/quote]
i'm pretty sure flame is arguing to allow the mechanic to be used, not that it should be banned.
kirbyflame, are you suffering from "old-as-shit meta syndrome"? come on man. change is happening and we have the ability to deal with it as we see fit. no worries.
but throwing a temper tantrum (so to speak) and saying, "we don't like these changes!" is not the appropriate way to deal with it iyam. Valve has started making changes and the best course of action will be to just roll with it.
if we're being honest, demo sticky are a bigger change to gameplay than the somewhat rare double uber situation that can arise. Is UGC going to ban demo or make all demos run shields?
[quote=kirby]flame, are you suffering from "old-as-shit meta syndrome"? come on man. change is happening and we have the ability to deal with it as we see fit. no worries.[/quote]
but throwing a temper tantrum (so to speak) and saying, "we don't like these changes!" is not the appropriate way to deal with it iyam. Valve has started making changes and the best course of action will be to just roll with it.
if we're being honest, demo sticky are a bigger change to gameplay than the somewhat rare double uber situation that can arise. Is UGC going to ban demo or make all demos run shields?
Handcuffedkirbyflame, are you suffering from "old-as-shit meta syndrome"? come on man. change is happening and we have the ability to deal with it as we see fit. no worries.
but throwing a temper tantrum (so to speak) and saying, "we don't like these changes!" is not the appropriate way to deal with it iyam. Valve has started making changes and the best course of action will be to just roll with it.
if we're being honest, demo sticky are a bigger change to gameplay than the somewhat rare double uber situation that can arise. Is UGC going to ban demo or make all demos run shields?
You've got the reasoning behind the rule fundamentally wrong. The rule change was to keep this new feature that was obviously not designed with competitive in mind from uprooting the meta that people have been practicing for years. It's not a balance tweak.
Forums here and on UGC have been filled with complaints about picking up ubers for days now.
[quote=Handcuffed][quote=kirby]flame, are you suffering from "old-as-shit meta syndrome"? come on man. change is happening and we have the ability to deal with it as we see fit. no worries.[/quote]
but throwing a temper tantrum (so to speak) and saying, "we don't like these changes!" is not the appropriate way to deal with it iyam. Valve has started making changes and the best course of action will be to just roll with it.
if we're being honest, demo sticky are a bigger change to gameplay than the somewhat rare double uber situation that can arise. Is UGC going to ban demo or make all demos run shields?[/quote]
You've got the reasoning behind the rule fundamentally wrong. The rule change was to keep this [b]new feature[/b] that was obviously not designed with competitive in mind from uprooting the meta that people have been practicing for years. It's not a balance tweak.
Forums here and on UGC have been filled with complaints about picking up ubers for [i]days[/i] now.
If they're going to ban one pickup, then they should ban ALL pickups. For all we know Valve is intending this to be part of their metagame, and us flipping tables over it is just one example in a long line of them of us not liking what they're giving.
Is it imperfect? Absolutely, it could and probably will be improved (uber decay, perhaps?). But immediately banning it only part of the way isn't the answer at all (if anything, if I'm a team captain with server pick I'm not playing on a SourceMod server with that loophole in the prescribed rule present).
If they're going to ban one pickup, then they should ban ALL pickups. For all we know Valve is intending this to be part of [i]their[/i] metagame, and us flipping tables over it is just one example in a long line of them of us not liking what they're giving.
Is it imperfect? Absolutely, it could and probably will be improved (uber decay, perhaps?). But immediately banning it only part of the way isn't the answer at all (if anything, if I'm a team captain with server pick I'm not playing on a SourceMod server with that loophole in the prescribed rule present).
smoboHandcuffedkirbyflame, are you suffering from "old-as-shit meta syndrome"? come on man. change is happening and we have the ability to deal with it as we see fit. no worries.
but throwing a temper tantrum (so to speak) and saying, "we don't like these changes!" is not the appropriate way to deal with it iyam. Valve has started making changes and the best course of action will be to just roll with it.
if we're being honest, demo sticky are a bigger change to gameplay than the somewhat rare double uber situation that can arise. Is UGC going to ban demo or make all demos run shields?
You've got the reasoning behind the rule fundamentally wrong. The rule change was to keep this new feature that was obviously not designed with competitive in mind from uprooting the meta that people have been practicing for years. It's not a balance tweak.
Forums here and on UGC have been filled with complaints about picking up ubers for days now.
if it wasnt designed with competitive in mind, i would love to hear how this was designed with pubs in mind.
[quote=smobo][quote=Handcuffed][quote=kirby]flame, are you suffering from "old-as-shit meta syndrome"? come on man. change is happening and we have the ability to deal with it as we see fit. no worries.[/quote]
but throwing a temper tantrum (so to speak) and saying, "we don't like these changes!" is not the appropriate way to deal with it iyam. Valve has started making changes and the best course of action will be to just roll with it.
if we're being honest, demo sticky are a bigger change to gameplay than the somewhat rare double uber situation that can arise. Is UGC going to ban demo or make all demos run shields?[/quote]
You've got the reasoning behind the rule fundamentally wrong. The rule change was to keep this [b]new feature[/b] that was obviously not designed with competitive in mind from uprooting the meta that people have been practicing for years. It's not a balance tweak.
Forums here and on UGC have been filled with complaints about picking up ubers for [i]days[/i] now.[/quote]
if it wasnt designed with competitive in mind, i would love to hear how this was designed with pubs in mind.
smobothis new feature that was obviously not designed with competitive in mind
what makes you say that? is this like the first sticky nerf all over again, where, because some people didn't agree with it, it "wasn't made with competitive in mind"?
who did valve make this change for? pubbers? no way
anyway. i feel like this is way too much of a kneejerk ban, but i can understand wanting to get the season out of the way first. i sincerely hope ugc looks at this and the changed weapons critically whenever the next season begins. be mindful that this can and will happen in the future (sudden patches that flip the meta around)
i'm of the opinion that leagues (HL and 6s) should just go balls out with allowing weapons since valve changed so many of them. it feels weird to test SOME new things but keep others banned, seems like it would lead to inconsistent results. but yeah, now is the time to experiment, and to work with valve. test stuff, leave feedback, don't shitpost.
[quote=smobo]this [b]new feature[/b] that was obviously not designed with competitive in mind[/quote]
what makes you say that? is this like the first sticky nerf all over again, where, because some people didn't agree with it, it "wasn't made with competitive in mind"?
who did valve make this change for? pubbers? no way
anyway. i feel like this is way too much of a kneejerk ban, but i can understand wanting to get the season out of the way first. i sincerely hope ugc looks at this and the changed weapons critically whenever the next season begins. be mindful that this can and will happen in the future (sudden patches that flip the meta around)
i'm of the opinion that leagues (HL and 6s) should just go balls out with allowing weapons since valve changed so many of them. it feels weird to test SOME new things but keep others banned, seems like it would lead to inconsistent results. but yeah, now is the time to experiment, and to work with valve. test stuff, leave feedback, don't shitpost.
bastidsmobothis new feature that was obviously not designed with competitive in mind
what makes you say that? is this like the first sticky nerf all over again, where, because some people didn't agree with it, it "wasn't made with competitive in mind"?
who did valve make this change for? pubbers? no way
I don't think this feature was added with competitive in mind because uber games are the heart and soul of competitive, and this flips those on their head.
One class dying should not have this much impact on the game. Medics already can't afford to die much, but now the death of a medic is much more significant and dangerous. It's a lot of pressure to put on one person, and it really limits the risk-taking and fun they can have with the class. I know that I personally don't want to play medic with this meta, because uber counting is a guessing game and dying with a high uber% could cause your team to lose the round to two successive ubers.
If you're supposed to drop your uber% on the ground when you die, I could accept that. You could think "ok, I'll grab their medigun and we'll gain 20%" But it seems kind of random that a medic could be anywhere on the map, and may have cratered or just kill-binded and left 0% behind, and may or may not even have his medigun out at all. Maybe their medic surfed a rocket and ended up leaving his medigun on a ledge that would take forever to get to. It's a chaotic and confusing game mechanic carried over from a game that doesn't have these same elements of randomness.
It works in CS:GO, because if you have an AWP, you're going to be walking around with your AWP out (in fights). In TF2, weapon switching is fundamental to some classes (like pyro), and there isn't a whole lot of skill in determining what weapon they're going to leave behind when you kill them. Positioning is also less of an issue, because there is only one class (shooter man) and everyone can get to the same areas.
I think the weapon pickup feature is in the game to showcase new weapons. It keeps the free to play players interested because they get more variety, and more options to play with. They might also really enjoy using an Australium for a few minutes and start getting more into trading. Personally, I just think it's a fun pub thing to mix things up, and sometimes just do a quick reload. It's a wonderful feature, but the fact that it carries over uber% does not play nice with the competitive TF2 that we know and love.
tl;dr dropping your uber% is a silly complication that makes the game less enjoyable, but weapon drops in general are a good feature
[quote=bastid][quote=smobo]this [b]new feature[/b] that was obviously not designed with competitive in mind[/quote]
what makes you say that? is this like the first sticky nerf all over again, where, because some people didn't agree with it, it "wasn't made with competitive in mind"?
who did valve make this change for? pubbers? no way[/quote]
I don't think this feature was added with competitive in mind because uber games are the heart and soul of competitive, and this flips those on their head.
One class dying should not have this much impact on the game. Medics already can't afford to die much, but now the death of a medic is much more significant and dangerous. It's a lot of pressure to put on one person, and it really limits the risk-taking and fun they can have with the class. I know that I personally don't want to play medic with this meta, because uber counting is a guessing game and dying with a high uber% could cause your team to lose the round to two successive ubers.
If you're supposed to drop your uber% on the ground when you die, I could accept that. You could think "ok, I'll grab their medigun and we'll gain 20%" But it seems kind of random that a medic could be anywhere on the map, and may have cratered or just kill-binded and left 0% behind, and may or may not even have his medigun out at all. Maybe their medic surfed a rocket and ended up leaving his medigun on a ledge that would take forever to get to. It's a chaotic and confusing game mechanic carried over from a game that doesn't have these same elements of randomness.
It works in CS:GO, because if you have an AWP, you're going to be walking around with your AWP out (in fights). In TF2, weapon switching is fundamental to some classes (like pyro), and there isn't a whole lot of skill in determining what weapon they're going to leave behind when you kill them. Positioning is also less of an issue, because there is only one class (shooter man) and everyone can get to the same areas.
I think the weapon pickup feature is in the game to showcase new weapons. It keeps the free to play players interested because they get more variety, and more options to play with. They might also really enjoy using an Australium for a few minutes and start getting more into trading. Personally, I just think it's a fun pub thing to mix things up, and sometimes just do a quick reload. It's a wonderful feature, but the fact that it carries over uber% does not play nice with the competitive TF2 that we know and love.
tl;dr dropping your uber% is a silly complication that makes the game less enjoyable, but weapon drops in general are a good feature
Dougrock-flameyeah youre right, we should play i55 on the patch from 3 weeks ago, everyone revert your updates.
no, we just eat whatever shit valve throws us instead?
If you want comp TF2 to grow, you will actually try the features, if it's really bad for the game, you will talk with Valve so they rethink about it. If you just ban everything different Valve may just give up to help our community with this new attention they are giving to competitive.
i already said this i think, if growing means getting all the shit possible in competitive i'd rather stay like this, i don't care about the money i can make with games, since making money isn't my goal. Also they should understand themselves that either they balance for good all the unlocks they've added in the last 5 yrs or they just ban part of them for the competitive
For the uber pick up thing there should be some limitations, if you people really want to keep it, like some time to pick the medigun up, or like you get only a percentage of the ubercharge you pick up
[quote=Doug][quote=rock-][quote=flame]yeah youre right, we should play i55 on the patch from 3 weeks ago, everyone revert your updates.[/quote]
no, we just eat whatever shit valve throws us instead?[/quote]
If you want comp TF2 to grow, you will actually try the features, if it's really bad for the game, you will talk with Valve so they rethink about it. If you just ban everything different Valve may just give up to help our community with this new attention they are giving to competitive.[/quote]
i already said this i think, if growing means getting all the shit possible in competitive i'd rather stay like this, i don't care about the money i can make with games, since making money isn't my goal. Also they should understand themselves that either they balance for good all the unlocks they've added in the last 5 yrs or they just ban part of them for the competitive
For the uber pick up thing there should be some limitations, if you people really want to keep it, like some time to pick the medigun up, or like you get only a percentage of the ubercharge you pick up
xeroReminder: if you want valve to change they opinion go send them email instead of arguing on forum
http://www.valvesoftware.com/email.php?recipient=TF+Team
Thanks. I'll spare this thread another wall of text, but I emailed them and here's what I wrote for anyone who is curious, or would like to do the same.
[quote=xero]Reminder: if you want valve to change they opinion go send them email instead of arguing on forum
http://www.valvesoftware.com/email.php?recipient=TF+Team[/quote]
Thanks. I'll spare this thread another wall of text, but I emailed them and [url=http://pastebin.com/6cuHGYX5]here's what I wrote[/url] for anyone who is curious, or would like to do the same.
Yeah remember the last time we changed the meta? There were lots of people who said it would be a *great* idea, a super great idea, and thank goodness valve had added something new and interesting.. Let us review how that turned out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OalWDhYfdeg
oh.......
I'd be all for being able to pick up the mediguns if they had 0% charge when you did so - it'd be neat if you could switch between kritz and uber without having to die first. That *would* be interesting.
Good on UGC.
Yeah remember the last time we changed the meta? There were lots of people who said it would be a *great* idea, a super great idea, and thank goodness valve had added something new and interesting.. Let us review how that turned out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OalWDhYfdeg
oh.......
I'd be all for being able to pick up the mediguns if they had 0% charge when you did so - it'd be neat if you could switch between kritz and uber without having to die first. That *would* be interesting.
Good on UGC.
TF2 PROMOD TODO:
allow up to 110 fov
unlock mat_picmip
remove all classes except solly, scout, medic and demo
TF2 PROMOD TODO:
[olist]
allow up to 110 fov
unlock mat_picmip
remove all classes except solly, scout, medic and demo
[/olist]
TF2 updates were always about pubs, they never thought about comp when releasing a balance patch, that's why we have item bans. But Valve is changing their focus, they want to balance the game for us to make our scene grow.
I'm not saying to eat everything they throw at us, but banning away instead of trying to talk with them will only hurt.
Look at CSGO, CZ75 was strong as fuck, people were crying in hltv for months, proplayers were complaining in every interview they were asked about it. Do you think any league even thought about banning it?
Or look when Valve nerfed AWP, a gun that worked the way it did for 15 years. Everybody said it was dead, that the meta has changed forever etc etc. And what the leagues did? Nothing.
It's not about accepting everything so we get money in our game, it's about being adults and testing the changes and talking with Valve instead of being a spoiled child that will cry everytime something changes and screwing what we have been wanting for the last 7 years for our game.
TF2 updates were always about pubs, they never thought about comp when releasing a balance patch, that's why we have item bans. But Valve is changing their focus, they want to balance the game for us to make our scene grow.
I'm not saying to eat everything they throw at us, but banning away instead of trying to talk with them will only hurt.
Look at CSGO, CZ75 was strong as fuck, people were crying in hltv for months, proplayers were complaining in every interview they were asked about it. Do you think any league even thought about banning it?
Or look when Valve nerfed AWP, a gun that worked the way it did for 15 years. Everybody said it was dead, that the meta has changed forever etc etc. And what the leagues did? Nothing.
It's not about accepting everything so we get money in our game, it's about being adults and testing the changes and talking with Valve instead of being a spoiled child that will cry everytime something changes and screwing what we have been wanting for the last 7 years for our game.
It's too early to pass judgement on this mechanic. Give it a month or two.
It's too early to pass judgement on this mechanic. Give it a month or two.
MarxistYeah remember the last time we changed the meta? There were lots of people who said it would be a *great* idea, a super great idea, and thank goodness valve had added something new and interesting..
This one looks like it will likely be the opposite, teams compounding advantages and rounds being more one-sided, but it should also hand a bigger advantage to teams successfully holding last encouraging a push out. Big swings and big advantages rather than stalemates.
I doubt it will come into play often once medics get used to switching off when they're in danger, but you always have the option to stay on medigun and die with the expectation your team will be able to win the fight and keep it.
Interesting new risk/reward mechanic potentially but as always Sideshow has managed to troll it to the maximum already.
[quote=Marxist]Yeah remember the last time we changed the meta? There were lots of people who said it would be a *great* idea, a super great idea, and thank goodness valve had added something new and interesting.. [/quote]
This one looks like it will likely be the opposite, teams compounding advantages and rounds being more one-sided, but it should also hand a bigger advantage to teams successfully holding last encouraging a push out. Big swings and big advantages rather than stalemates.
I doubt it will come into play often once medics get used to switching off when they're in danger, but you always have the option to stay on medigun and die with the expectation your team will be able to win the fight and keep it.
Interesting new risk/reward mechanic potentially but as always Sideshow has managed to troll it to the maximum already.
How is anyone arguing that the weapon pickup mechanic was added with competitive in mind? It was made to sell skins and weapons to new players by letting them look at the shinyshiny and go 'ooh I want this'.
How is anyone arguing that the weapon pickup mechanic was added with competitive in mind? It was made to sell skins and weapons to new players by letting them look at the shinyshiny and go 'ooh I want this'.
DougTF2 updates were always about pubs, they never thought about comp when releasing a balance patch, that's why we have item bans. But Valve is changing their focus, they want to balance the game for us to make our scene grow.
I'm not saying to eat everything they throw at us, but banning away instead of trying to talk with them will only hurt.
Look at CSGO, CZ75 was strong as fuck, people were crying in hltv for months, proplayers were complaining in every interview they were asked about it. Do you think any league even thought about banning it?
Or look when Valve nerfed AWP, a gun that worked the way it did for 15 years. Everybody said it was dead, that the meta has changed forever etc etc. And what the leagues did? Nothing.
It's not about accepting everything so we get money in our game, it's about being adults and testing the changes and talking with Valve instead of being a spoiled child that will cry everytime something changes and screwing what we have been wanting for the last 7 years for our game.
you must be so silly to think valve wants competitive to grow, they only want their economy to grow, fair since it's their main purpose, but then don't get fooled by this, they don't give a damn on how the competitive will look or work, because they already know that people like you will play it anyway, in the end, even if you don't like it you'll force urself into liking it, it'll work a bit like csgo, a fucking garbage game (not valve work tho) that succeed cause of the trash matchmaking and stupid skins, but well "it's a new counter strike, with all these stupid things around it, people will play it, it'll be famous and money will flow from sponsors, why not playing it"
[quote=Doug]TF2 updates were always about pubs, they never thought about comp when releasing a balance patch, that's why we have item bans. But Valve is changing their focus, they want to balance the game for us to make our scene grow.
I'm not saying to eat everything they throw at us, but banning away instead of trying to talk with them will only hurt.
Look at CSGO, CZ75 was strong as fuck, people were crying in hltv for months, proplayers were complaining in every interview they were asked about it. Do you think any league even thought about banning it?
Or look when Valve nerfed AWP, a gun that worked the way it did for 15 years. Everybody said it was dead, that the meta has changed forever etc etc. And what the leagues did? Nothing.
It's not about accepting everything so we get money in our game, it's about being adults and testing the changes and talking with Valve instead of being a spoiled child that will cry everytime something changes and screwing what we have been wanting for the last 7 years for our game.[/quote]
you must be so silly to think valve wants competitive to grow, they only want their economy to grow, fair since it's their main purpose, but then don't get fooled by this, they don't give a damn on how the competitive will look or work, because they already know that people like you will play it anyway, in the end, even if you don't like it you'll force urself into liking it, it'll work a bit like csgo, a fucking garbage game (not valve work tho) that succeed cause of the trash matchmaking and stupid skins, but well "it's a new counter strike, with all these stupid things around it, people will play it, it'll be famous and money will flow from sponsors, why not playing it"
DougLook at CSGO, CZ75 was strong as fuck, people were crying in hltv for months, proplayers were complaining in every interview they were asked about it. Do you think any league even thought about banning it?
With the CZ Valve did end up nerfing the weapon to be more acceptable with competitive play though, it wasn't a fast nerf but it did come through eventually. Valve historically hasn't cared about balancing for comp in TF2, meaning we can't tough out the updates and expect things to be balanced out in a reasonable timeframe. If that changes now, that'll be exciting and we can hope Valve pays more attention to comp balance with the upcoming MM features, but I can understand the reticence to allow these weapons/mechanics at this point.
[quote=Doug]Look at CSGO, CZ75 was strong as fuck, people were crying in hltv for months, proplayers were complaining in every interview they were asked about it. Do you think any league even thought about banning it?[/quote]
With the CZ Valve did end up nerfing the weapon to be more acceptable with competitive play though, it wasn't a fast nerf but it did come through eventually. Valve historically hasn't cared about balancing for comp in TF2, meaning we can't tough out the updates and expect things to be balanced out in a reasonable timeframe. If that changes now, that'll be exciting and we can hope Valve pays more attention to comp balance with the upcoming MM features, but I can understand the reticence to allow these weapons/mechanics at this point.
Seeing anyone argue that the uber switching just being a reason to sell more shit is wrong. They realized uber add didnt drop, so they patched it in. I dont get how patching in uber ad post-patch gives them any money.
Seeing anyone argue that the uber switching just being a reason to sell more shit is wrong. They realized uber add didnt drop, so they patched it in. I dont get how patching in uber ad post-patch gives them any money.
kounterpartsSeeing anyone argue that the uber switching just being a reason to sell more shit is wrong. They realized uber add didnt drop, so they patched it in. I dont get how patching in uber ad post-patch gives them any money.
Consistency, they probably wanted all weapons to keep ammo/uber%/whatever. And since uber drops didnt keep the % like they intended - they patched it in.
This isn't fucking 8th grade algebra
all in all though medigun drops keeping % is fucking broken as all shit and clearly not the case that valve intended to change the core of how comp tf2 is played when you compare it to the minor tweaks to weapons they've been doing.
Just let them know that hey, medigun probably shouldn't keep %, or give us a cvar to disable it for us. It's nothing that pubbers going from pub to 6v6 will notice until they're deep into 6s.
Feedback for stuff like exactly this is exactly what they were asking for.
Ban it, let valve know, enjoy life.
[quote=kounterparts]Seeing anyone argue that the uber switching just being a reason to sell more shit is wrong. They realized uber add didnt drop, so they patched it in. I dont get how patching in uber ad post-patch gives them any money.[/quote]
Consistency, they probably wanted all weapons to keep ammo/uber%/whatever. And since uber drops didnt keep the % like they intended - they patched it in.
This isn't fucking 8th grade algebra
all in all though medigun drops keeping % is fucking broken as all shit and clearly not the case that valve intended to change the core of how comp tf2 is played when you compare it to the minor tweaks to weapons they've been doing.
Just let them know that hey, medigun probably shouldn't keep %, or give us a cvar to disable it for us. It's nothing that pubbers going from pub to 6v6 will notice until they're deep into 6s.
Feedback for stuff like exactly this is exactly what they were asking for.
Ban it, let valve know, enjoy life.
Live from valve HQ!
News that one of TF2 leagues as decided to FORSAKE the holy valve balancing by banning a new, untested mechanic for the remainder of a season reaches the dev team.
A decision is made quickly, for their insubordination, all work on matchmaking is halted and the tf2 begin working solely on making more taunts.
Live from valve HQ!
News that one of TF2 leagues as decided to FORSAKE the holy valve balancing by banning a new, untested mechanic for the remainder of a season reaches the dev team.
A decision is made quickly, for their [b]insubordination[/b], all work on matchmaking is halted and the tf2 begin working solely on making more taunts.
i think banning it for the current season is fine.
Should be re-evaluated for the next one tho.
i think banning it for the current season is fine.
Should be re-evaluated for the next one tho.